Another suspension question

I ran my stock suspension on my E30 last week at Summit Point. A wild (and slow) ride to say the least.

I'm shopping for a full upgrade to a race suspension. Turner sells a "J-Stock" kit for the E30 that contains "all you need" for about $1800. Does anyone have any experience with this kit? Any tips on installing it would be helpful. Does it really contain "all I need"?

While I'm upgrading the suspension, I thought I might replace the A-arms with aluminum ones. Any suggestions?

If anyone has any other suggestions on suspension and steering upgrades, I'm open to your thoughts. Thanks.

The car is going to be IT? Go to Ground Control - the Turner JS setup is good, but made to fit BMW CCA Stock class rules - you can do better in IT. Also, the control arms are illegal in IT. Anyone want to write to request susbtitution allowed - I think it is a safety issue because of the ball joint.

James Clay
#28 ITS, SEDiv
www.bimmerworld.com

Any suggestion on Ground Control parts? I went to their site, no package. A previous poster seems to imply that you need to know what you want before you buy Ground Control parts. I'm not sure. Anyone out their want to supply some tips? I'll go review the dissatisfied Ground Control customer's comments to see what not to do.

Also, now that you remind me, I remember the A-arm restriction. Can we start lobbying for a GCR change? I don't seehow aluminum A-arms provide a competitive advantage other than weight reduction. This should be considered a safety issue. My stock ones are relatively new, but I thought while I had the car in pieces over the winter, I'd do some other upgrades. Aluminum A-arms would be nice.

------------------
--Ray

Kit-
Camber plates - $400
Coilover kit - $400
Some kind of shocks - ask Jay
suspension bearings - depends on what you want

E36 M3 control arms have a good ball joint and are steel - will fit all E30/E36 cars. Someone want to send it?

Call Jeff Ireland of Ireland Engineering - he's all BMW..

(626) 359-7674

Or Turner Motorsports in OH (I think OH anyway)..

I bought everything that GC has for the E30. I love it all except for the MS swaybar links. The links require welding a bracket on to the strut. This weld becomes a weakest link in the suspension.(mine broke) Sway bar is stiff enuf with the standard endlinks. Also, jay at ground control is way off on spring rates. he suggests 650# rear and 550# front. Everyone that I talk to uses 450# all the way around. The entire Ground Control package was $1600

e30 ray. ground control has the best camber plates period. as for suspension, i would suggest you talk with some of the older tuners, like turner and korman, and even james above, about a suspension kit. unless you want to expierment with springs to get the correct ballance on your car, a pretested kit is the way to go. i bought everything from one tuner and am very satisfyed. however, i bought double adjustable koni shocks and dialed them in to the tuner's springs in about 4 run sessions at our local track. good luck, chuck http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Call James if you are in his market - I just got Kudos from a fellow BMW Clubber about Mr. Clay's business...

K - ex-WindyCity, Michiana, LA and San Diego Instr...

James - Do e30 318's really stand a chance on a fast track against a well tuned brilliantly driven 2002?

I completely agree. When I was first starting out, I combined suggestions from 2 different sources and ended up with a huge mess. Get all your stuff from one place if possible. We use Ground Control on our cars and you might as well buy directly from them. Since we don't run E30s, I have no problem giving out our setup - 350#F, 500#R, stock front swaybar, no rear bar, about 3.5deg neg F camber on hoosiers. This will lift the front wheel slightly, allowing you to hit the curbing hard without upsetting the car.

James Clay
#28 ITS, SEDiv
www.bimmerworld.com

I guess it depends if the 318 is well tuned and brilliantly driven as well... I am not sure I have ever seen a full blown engine in a 318, I know some of the 2002s are to the limit.

James Clay
#28 ITS, SEDiv
www.bimmerworld.com

That frikin John Norris guy :P is hard to beat and I am thinking that a 320 is too slow and a 318 might be too heavy and a 2002 too much the same...

Dare I say it... Volvo...?

bimmer22-done correctly, that sway bar mount is the only way to go. it allows adjustment of the linkage to scale the car correctly. made mine out of a piece ou "U" shaped .080" steel and have had no problems. chuck

Questions for James Clay (and anyone else that would like to add sage advice):

No rear sway bar? Does anyone else run without one? How does no bar help in corners? Is the lack of a bar compensated for by the stiff (500) springs?

Ray, I'd say turner is a pretty good choice! They seem to have the much needed track time, and real world experience that ground control does not!
Good Luck!

If your near Chicago Leo Franchi (Midwest Motorsports -ex-IMSA Team) or Ben Thongsai know what the heck they are doing.

No rear bar - right. It lifts the front inside a bit so the car is not as unsettled in the turns and also keeps the rear wheels firmly planted, allowing you to get on the gas earlier - backed up with Stack DA. Compensate for balance with stiffer rear springs.

James Clay
#28 ITS, SEDiv
www.bimmerworld.com

James would it be rude to ask what happened in the sprint race..?

No problem. Qualified poorly, Goodyears not nearly hot on the start, got too wide and went off losing about 4 positions. Got 3 back by turn 10, had tons of speed to overtake the next car coming out of 12, passed, had the inside line, but the driver spun me into the wall. About 12 hours straight on the car paid off though. Fastest rolling lap from the Stack (from the braking in the back straight and around again) was 1:39:25 at the end of the race with a hefty tow from the first place Mazda. Every time the car gets bent, it gets faster!

James Clay
#28 ITS, SEDiv
www.bimmerworld.com

What is a Stack DA?

--Ray

Stack Data Aquisition, online at www.stackinc.com. The best driver development tool hands down, information from our dash is downloadable to a laptop and shows among other things a wheelspeed graph. You can overlay this graph with others to compare different drivers, different lines, different setups, different cars, etc.

Re: John Norris:
You would put this guy in a 318, or 320 he would still be very fast...
the 320 has not been developed as well as the 2002. If the 318 was better than the 2002 you would see more of them...look at the grids/results nationally...

The www.stackinc.com address went to a BT website selling web hosting services. The DA you describe sounds awesome,but proably outside this year's racing budget.

Try it again. I clicked on the link in your email and it came up. Not cheap but a much better investment than a pro school.