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gona try and rewrite this i am getint the wrong feedback from the form sorry for those who took offense to it .
when i first started racing i found alot of new freinds. ther main concern was that motors did not seem to be fairly governed so this brought out the word "cheating" my sugestion is to create a restricter plate
to stop those concerns.
just an idea please be nice with your input
[This message has been edited by instigator (edited January 14, 2005).]
Making cheaters legal? No thanks... I like my junkyard motors just fine.
BTW... nice screen name
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Scott Rhea
It's not what you build...
it's how you build it
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/images/IzysLgoSm.jpg
Izzy's Custom Cages
Interesting comment out of the blue...Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\"> \"....from the start to present i have heard he is cheating,or they are cheating. well lets fix it ...\" </font>
Fill us all in a bit, won't you? Tell me what exactly "he" or "they" are doing.
I was told, by a very passionate source, that the entire reason IT7 exists in the first place was to ensure that the cars were all RX-7s, and they were all clean.
I was under the impression that the IT7 guys were pleased wit the compliance, and it was checked often. I know there was some checking at the ARRCs.
Am I misunderstanding things? Or overloooking items?
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
I feel that we all do a good job of keeping motor isues under control but yes ther are some cars with internal modification that will need full disassembly to find them. at the arrc all they checked were carb 2ndariesand,and port size.good check maybe?other classes sufferd the wrath of full disassembly
he or they has no specific person behind them, but every track or region has a person or persons that is always accused of cheating this is just an attempt to stop it.
[This message has been edited by instigator (edited January 12, 2005).]
"Accused" is WAY different than PROOF. *I* am from the school that most of the cheating comes from the mid-pack becasue the majority dont WANT to believe that they are being out-prepared, out-tested, out-developed and out-driven.
If you KNOW that someone is cheating, protest them, tear them down and penalize them. If you don't know, then a new set of rules accomplished NOTHING.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com
I agree with you,ANDY, but this class is very expensive to teardown a motor,as proven in the price of gaskets and seals,but this is just an idea to stop people from acussing others of just that ,cheating,I would like to go to a weekend race and not hear that word from any competitor.lets just drive and have fun.
Then tell those people at the track to put-up or SHUT-UP.
Simple.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com
To the instigator----e-mail me with your Phone # or call 865-494-7889 for,info on how to get an IT7 spec tire ballot ,
[email protected]
Totally with Andy on this one. In IT7, I don't think that "engine" cheating is all that pervasive. As hard as it may be to "put up, or shut up", that's what it takes. Until then it is all inneundo(sc) and rumors.
George Harkless
[This message has been edited by GEO46 (edited January 13, 2005).]
with the lolipop tool for checking the exhaust port it's very hard to cheat and not get caught.yes you can tamper with the intake but if the exhaust gasses can't get out then you lose power.if you do port and cannot get air /fuel into the engine then no top end power[carb .].still a waste of time.it all has to do with finding the right combination .not cheating just lots of research and dyno work.that cost money and for the guys who's willing to spend some time& money they would have a better prepped car also.because they are serious about racing and winning.
these guys pay attension to small details that somone else may overlook.or pay someone to look to do so.
just my 2 cents.it's only my opinion,i could be wrong if so i stand corrected.
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steve saney
it-7 /it-a #34
hey ,thanks for your input or "2cents" their are other rotors from previous years. housings with differnt port timing .or internal maching of the rotors. all of that matters controlng the air will stop them.the carb on the car is capable of feeding more than the engine can produce stock
Another off topic here...Jake - your email still screwy? I still haven't heard from you!
Who is cheating? None of the frontrunners in sediv are cheating, I know the top 3 at the ARRC weren't cheating. My motor is homebuilt and I'm never seriously outdragged on the back straight by any IT-7 car, which I should be if someone was cheating.
So who is it?
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Russ Marshall
#31 IT-7
double post, whoops...
[This message has been edited by crushed (edited January 14, 2005).]
no one that i know of.i have acussed no one. this is just an attempt to stop the sounds of that word "cheating",and to put differnt ideas on motor mods or posible suggenstion to improve the class. i think that we all have fun no matter were you are in your learnig curve or the it7 pack. do you think it its a good idea or not"the resticter plate", lets get off the acusation and move to the discussion of the plate.
[This message has been edited by instigator (edited January 14, 2005).]
If you don't know of anyone who is cheating, then the current set-up is working and there is no need for a plate.
Bad idea. How's that?
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com
thanks you for your opinion.this is just a suggestion for a safe guard.just like the lollipop,but less intrusive to the motor
There is an alternative to all these questions about cheating. Make the motor rule wide open & run what ya brung & hope ya brung enough.
The same people will continue to win. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David Dewhurst
CenDiv ITA/7 #14
good idea .yea you are probably right ,but the word "cheating" will be quite.then people will focus on ther driving and not there motor as much or lack of.
Sounds to me like what you would rather have is a "claimer" rule. Last three cars gets the option of getting 1-3rd place's drivetrain... That'd put the end to cheating on motor building right there! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
I've seen this kind of response before and I'm not sure its all that practical. Educate me if I'm wrong, I've never been involved with a mechanical protest.Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
"Accused" is WAY different than PROOF. *I* am from the school that most of the cheating comes from the mid-pack becasue the majority dont WANT to believe that they are being out-prepared, out-tested, out-developed and out-driven.
If you KNOW that someone is cheating, protest them, tear them down and penalize them. If you don't know, then a new set of rules accomplished NOTHING.
AB
My understanding is that to file such a protest, I need to post a tear-down bond and document what I think is wrong. It's the last part that causes my confusion. All I know is that someone else is faster in ways that I don't think they should be, how do I protest that? I don't think I get to just say that the motor isn't legal, don't I have to be specific? Unless I sneak into someones garage and disassemble their motor, how do I know what to protest? What if I file a protest accusing someone of have a ported engine and he doesn't, but the rotor turns out to be illegal. Do I lose my protest and bond?
Protest EVERYTHING. Make a laundry list. Cover everything. Put up the appropriate bond to get your answers. If you "know" they are cheating, but don't specifically know what is the issue, you will be covered.
If you don't "know" they are cheating, then just drive.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM 1.6
Spec Miata 1.8
www.flatout-motorsports.com
Writing a protest is a bit of an art...you do need to do significant homework. Intimate knowledge of the protestees car is essential, as is a good understanding of the process. If you really feel that there are issues with a certain competitor, discussing it up front is a good start. If unresolved, respectfullly discussing it with other drivers in the class may convince you that there is no issue, or that indeed, there IS an issue. If the others agree, it could work out well to form a "team". This way you can divide the workload. One can handle the legalities, another the technical merits, and the cost can be shared. A protest is not to be taken lightly. Bad blood can result from a poorly handled or written protest, and no real resolution may have been reached. That's a lose-lose.
Read the thread titled "a protest story" in, (I think) the rules and regs section of this BBS ...
http://<a href="http://forum.improve...00740.html</a>
to get a inside view of exactly how a protest is lodged, and how it can transpire.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited January 18, 2005).]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited January 18, 2005).]
Thanks.