Almost there.... ITA 1st gen CRX

I haven't been on this board in while, mainly becuase my project has been way behind schedule due to my cage builder (no comment).

At any rate, the day has finally come and I will be picking the car up tonight. The balance of this week will be comprised of late nights at the garage trying to get enough of the car ready for a lapping day at Gingerman on the 24th. Outside of having a cage and a gutted interior, the car is pretty much stock.

My driver's school is at Blackhawk August 9-11. I have one lapping day and 5 autocross events before school. My goal is to use those events as "testing" to get things sorted.

Along those lines... The car is a very clean '86 with approx. 200,000 miles. I have replaced the timing belt, water pump, cap, rotor, plugs, wires, tie rod ends, clutch, thermostat... pretty much all of the basic maintenance items. The motor is suprisingly strong given that it does not have any internal work or bolt-ons.

The suspension is "mild" with 23mm torsion bars and 250# rear coil overs... Tokico 5-ways all around. I also have an adjustable rear sway bar. Inside is a Corbeau Forza and a Momo wheel.

I have more time than money at this point. In preparation for driver's school do you all see any "must haves". My goal is not to be competitive this year, just to get the license and start down the path of sorting things out.

Just a quick list of other things that have already been taken care of:
-window net
-extinguisher
-fuel sampling
-wheels/tires (well not quite yet)
-exhaust
-kill switch

What am I missing? Any abolsute must haves?(camber plates, panhard bar, guages?) Where do I obtain a log book? What about the required graphics?

Many thanks... I'm sure I'll be picking many a brain over the next month - especially you Bob http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Clayton - who will finish with some pics of the cage.

http://a4.cpimg.com/image/36/8E/1038...-028001E0-.jpg
http://a7.cpimg.com/image/39/8E/1038...-028001E0-.jpg
http://a8.cpimg.com/image/44/8E/1038...-028001E0-.jpg

http://a5.cpimg.com/image/4B/8E/1038...-028001E0-.jpg

http://a1.cpimg.com/image/51/8F/1038...28001E0-RR.jpg

Just off the top of my head there's nothing missing... Except a windshield! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

I'd probably install an oil temp guage before I worried about exhaust. Better safe than sorry. Speaking of which, those door bars are gorgeous!

The car looks a little too nice to be a racecar... Are you sure you want to get it all dented up?

-T

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Just off the top of my head there's nothing missing... Except a windshield! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

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I was just planning on using goggles http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
Check

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'd probably install an oil temp guage before I worried about exhaust. Better safe than sorry.</font>

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Agreed - I might be able to pop for a cheap cooler while I am at it.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Speaking of which, those door bars are gorgeous!</font>

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I'm glad you think so, it only took 5 months to have the cage done http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif[/Quote]

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The car looks a little too nice to be a racecar... Are you sure you want to get it all dented up?

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I bought it for $900. What the hell... Besides it's not really a chick magnent or anything http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Thanks

CG

-T[/B][/QUOTE]

Ausmith,
First of all, the car looks great. About the oil temp. I would suggest buying a remote oil filter relocater kit with two extra fittings where you can connect your oil temp and pressure senders. It will be the cheapest to do versus taking your oil pan down and having someone weld a fitting for gauge sensor. That's what I did and I would have done it differently if I would have thought about it.

Good luck!

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Richy Gonzalez
#21 ITA CRX

From the look of your pictures, the wait was well worth while for that roll cage. Very clean job.

I run a street driven '87 CRX Si in CSP Solo2. I also use the 23mm t-bars with GC coilovers and Eibach 275# in back. I have a Suspension Techniques rear sway bar which was relatively cheap and effective. OPM sells an adjustable rear sway bar, but it is 2x the $. Some people weld the stock sway bar link to tighten the back.

In the front I have a set of OPM camber plates which I use with one degree of negative camber. If money is tight, you can "slot" the holes for the stut's upper attach mount so you can dial in some negative camber. A set of Integra radius arms will bolt on your car and also give a bit of negative camber.

A low $ upgrade that yields big results is to upgrade your front bushings. And filling your engine mounts with urathane glue will stiffen them up nicely. New front sway bar end links and bushings are also a help.

If this car is not street driven, a welded diff is cheap and good.

Port and polish your throttlebody, install a set of Integra injectors, add a FPR/FPG/AFM combination, and build your own CAI out of PVC piping for more engine power. The 1990 Accord adjustable cam gear will fit your engine.

For brakes, I recommend HF aluminum rear drums (you will need the HF backing plates as well). Check your rule book to see if Integra rotors and disks are allowed in your class.

www.cyberauto.com carries alot of stuff for the early CRX and their prices are better than www.opmmotorsports.com.

Scott

I am wondering if you have looked at the GCR as to cage construction. What you have is really good and well done, but I do not see the forward down tubes or the bar across the top front of the roof. I make mention of this as I just completed having my Kirk 8-point cage installed in my 2nd gen and it has a similar configuration to yours except the door bars are attached to the forward down tube. We also have a cross tube over the top of the dash (permitted location).

My car is similar to yours in performance out of the box with 175K on the odometer. If you plan to do anything serious, I will agree that an oil cooler would be an excellent idea along with a Moroso or similar road race oil pan.

Good luck and have a great school.

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Originally posted by cbstd:
OPM sells an adjustable rear sway bar, but it is 2x the

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That's the one I have

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">In the front I have a set of OPM camber plates which I use with one degree of negative camber. If money is tight, you can "slot" the holes for the stut's upper attach mount so you can dial in some negative camber</font>

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We'll see how the budget goes. I'm interested to see how it behaves on the track with the fixed/stock camber settings.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> A set of Integra radius arms will bolt on your car and also give a bit of negative camber.</font>

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Is that legal?

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">A low $ upgrade that yields big results is to upgrade your front bushings. And filling your engine mounts with urathane glue will stiffen them up nicely. New front sway bar end links and bushings are also a help.</font>

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I'll look into it. I know CA bushings can be a pain... I'm trying to save the major work for the winter when the motor comes out and she goes in for paint.

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If this car is not street driven, a welded diff is cheap and good.

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Perhaps a Quaife over the winter months. I'm not a fan of welded diffs.

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Port and polish your throttlebody

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I know that's not legal.

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install a set of Integra injectors, add a FPR/FPG/AFM combination, and build your own CAI out of PVC piping for more engine power. The 1990 Accord adjustable cam gear will fit your engine.

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Not sure about legality of the cam gear. I do have an Integra ECU. I know the ECU rule is still fairly open at this point (the cases are the same size). Does anyone have any evidence to support using the Teg ECU over the stock CRX?

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For brakes, I recommend HF aluminum rear drums (you will need the HF backing plates as well). Check your rule book to see if Integra rotors and disks are allowed in your class.

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Not the last time I checked. It still specs the stock pieces. Which is a reall bummer because those front rotors are dinky.

Thanks for the input.

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Originally posted by jc836:
I am wondering if you have looked at the GCR as to cage construction. What you have is really good and well done, but I do not see the forward down tubes or the bar across the top front of the roof. I make mention of this as I just completed having my Kirk 8-point cage installed in my 2nd gen and it has a similar configuration to yours except the door bars are attached to the forward down tube. We also have a cross tube over the top of the dash (permitted location).

My car is similar to yours in performance out of the box with 175K on the odometer. If you plan to do anything serious, I will agree that an oil cooler would be an excellent idea along with a Moroso or similar road race oil pan.

Good luck and have a great school.

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Those bars are there. Thanks!

I won't pick nits but about 2/3 of cbstd's suggestions are not IT-legal.

Kirk

Since you indicated that you will be running the drivers school at Blackhawk, I would suggest that you invest in some very high quality brake pads. Blackhawk is probably THE toughest track in the country on brakes. The track is tight (1.9 miles, 9 turns) with 5 very heavy braking zones per lap. The brakes never get a chance to cool down. I would suggest Hawk Blues or Carbotechs (which are actually made from Hawk mat'l). PFC's are also a good choice. Stay away from Porterfields as they will bend around the piston from the heat, leaving you with a very small pad contact area! I would suggest that you remove the dust shield from the front rotors. If the small philips screws that hold the shield in place are too rusty, just knock the heads of with a good chisel.

Use a good high temperature fluid such as AP550, Wilwood 575, etc. Castrol LMA will boil at this track! If you have time, fabricate a front air dam with a brake ducts to the fronts. If you don't have time, remove that black plastic front trim piece that hangs down in front to provide a little more air flow to the brakes. You should not have problems with the rears but make sure they are in good shape i.e. plenty of lining, cylinders not leaking, drums true, functional i.e. not rusted or siezed up bleeders, etc. (The shoes on my ITC civic have 5 years on them and still are in great shape)

An oil cooler would be nice, but I wouldn't worry about it for drivers school. Just make sure you have good clean oil (Red Line or Valvoline racing oils are two good choices). Use the factory OEM oil filter. It is the best unit available. Make sure you use a new crush washer for the oil drain plug.

I forgot to read if you have replaced the front hubs. You will probably be okay for school since the speeds and loads are generally lower at a school while your learning curve developes. You should plan on replacing them every 12 races or so. I would suggest that you find a bone yard and salvage two front upright assemblies with hubs installed and keep them with you as emergency spares. The reason? If you do break a hub, or a wheel stud, you can't repair either unless you have a hydraulic press handy. But you can replace the entire upright assembly with hub very easily (I did both sides this weekend in about 40 minutes).

Question...where did you manage to find that tub in such great condition in the midwest? That is one of the best looking cars I have seen since, well since they were new! Great find.

Have a great time! I'll be working F&C for the school and will probably drive in the regional on Sunday.

I've been running a 1st gen CRX Si in ITA for the last few years. One thing I would suggest adding is the Moroso big oil pan - 5+ qt capacity with baffles. That and an oil cooler keep the engine temps nice and cool, and I don't worry about the oil starvation I used to get in the NHIS oval - the oil pickup is on the left side of the Si motor, so LOOOOONG left-hand ovals meant low oil pressure before.

I upgraded my suspension from something close to yours to 27mm torsion bars up front with 500lb springs in the back (on adjustable perches). On the tracks I run (NHIS and Lime Rock), the change was worth several seconds a lap for me - already had the OPM camber plates. You might also look into their adjustable panhard bar - lets you re-center the rear axle as you lower the car. Check your panhard bar mount, too. My car was a 150,000-mile New England street car before I started racing it and the mount gave up the ghost during qualifying one day (rust really never sleeps). Kind of a scary moment when the rear axle wants to go a different direction than the rest of the car. I'm also running 13x7 wheels (the '85 Si had 13s, and it's the same make/model/body).

Let me know if you have any other questions. You can see what I did to my car at http://www.geocities.com/levine18/menotomy.html

-noam

Greg,

Thanks for the reply. I do have a set of Blues waiting for pick-up at King. I am going to do my very best to fab up some sort of air damn or at least buy some 3" hose for ducting. I've got a case of Motul 600.

I have 2 parts cars as well. Thanks for the tip on the uprights. I'll make sure I bring a set with me.

The car actually came from WA. There is a small amount of surface rust near the jackpoints, and a little in the rear hatch water gutters but nothing like I have seen on other 1g's.

Thanks again,

Clayton

Noam,

I am familiar with the story... I started following it a while back and it was inspriation to convert my car into race mode.

The undercarriage on my car is very clean. I too was worried about the panhard connection point after hearing several horror stories. I went so far as to remove the sound deadening material and check for rust. Everything is clean http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Thanks again.... can't wait to get this thing to the track next Monday...

Ah yes...Washington state. The other great haven for beautiful rust free cars. Visited my cousin out there a few years ago. I Couldn't believe the number of great 'classics' running around as daily drivers with no rust.

The panhard rod issue is a good one. Mine let go exiting turn 4 at Blackhawk many years ago on my previous car. Not fun!

One other prep note...coudn't tell what you are running for an interior mirror. If you are using the stock mirror, or something that clips on to the stock mirror, remove the mirror (it slides out), drill and tap a small set screw to keep the stock unit from sliding out. Nothing fancy, the screw keeps the mirror from sliding out. If you have to take the mirror out later, just remove the screw and out she comes. Mine had the habit of popping loose and sliding out. Very unsettling because A) in the 1st gen cars if someone is directly behind you, you can't see them in the side mirrors, and B) rather unpleasent when it lands under your feet near the pedals...and no, you can't reach it when you are strapped in.

If you are using an aftermarket mirror that clamps to the roll cage, make sure you lock-tite the mounting screws. Blackhawk is a bit mumpy (not as bad as Nelson Ledges) and the small screws will loosen up a bit.

bumpy....not mumpy!

Scott (cbstd), this is the IT forum, you'd do well to be familiar with the rules before giving advice. almost everything you mentioned is illegal.

the cage looks great. if you dont have another mount to the front of the firewall on the passenger side, i think that lower/forward mount under blower would count as such and be legal.

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Originally posted by Tyson:
the cage looks great. if you dont have another mount to the front of the firewall on the passenger side, i think that lower/forward mount under blower would count as such and be legal.

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You guys have me a little worried about the cage.

My cage has 8 points:
-Rear Shock Tower (2)
-Main Hoop (2)
-Forward Bars (2)
-Firewall Bars (2)

Is this not legal? I reviewed the GCR and the cage design appears to be in spec.

If you have points then yes you are are legal. I think the concern was if you had an additional firewall attachment point (not visible in the photo) then you might have a problem. But it appears that you have the allowable 8 points, 2 for the main hoop, 2 for the front down tubes, and 2 for the fire wall. And I assume that where I have listed (2) it is one on each side. Looks legal to me.

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Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
If you have points then yes you are are legal. I think the concern was if you had an additional firewall attachment point (not visible in the photo) then you might have a problem. But it appears that you have the allowable 8 points, 2 for the main hoop, 2 for the front down tubes, and 2 for the fire wall. And I assume that where I have listed (2) it is one on each side. Looks legal to me.

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I need to proof-read my typing before I post. I meant to say "But it appears that you have the allowable 8 points; 2 for the rear shock mounts, 2 for the main hoop, 2 for the front down tubes, and 2 for the fire wall.

2+2+2+2 = 8 right?

I'm just mentioned that the mount in the third picture that goes from the multijoint to the center of the passenger footwell under the blower looks a bit extraneous at first glance, but is fine as it could count as the "firewall" mount, but to me it doesnt look like its anywhere near the real firewall. "IF" you had another mount to the firewall, which could be hidden in your pictures, then that extra mount to the footwell would not conform to GCR, but prolly no one would care about that.

I keep looking at the picture of your car and maybe I'm missing it-but there seems to be a bar missing that should come across the top along the door opening and then down to the floor. OR do I see that you have it very tight to the roof over the door opening and coming down the "A" pillar on the driver's side and harder to see on the passenger side. Is this the case on both sides and the pair are connected together above the windshield by a cross bar. The correct cage is shown on page 150 of the GCR for IT and Showroom Stock. This is the basic design and is in general correct for all closed cars using an 8-point configuration.
YES, you do have an 8=point cage based on where the tubes are located and the number of plates you used. The horizontal bar under your dash must be a continuous piece of tubing for IT. This is why we elected to put mine above the cluster-but between the bends on the down tubes.
The best thing you can do is find the regional tech inspector and have the chassis checked. Another point-There are those of us who feel strongly that the integrity of a cage can be compromised by drilling any holes in it-even inspecition holes. Seems that SCCA has always required them even though technology has provided an ultrasonic test device. Make sure you have the required hole in ALL of the tubes
in a location that is not "critical" to the structure. Only 1 hole in the main hoop is required along with 1 in each down tube. SCCA Tech suggest that these be on the Driver's side of the car. The cross tubes also need a hole.
No holes may be drilled in the cage for mounting anything. It is recommended that tabs be welded to the cage to allow the mounting of things like radio boxes and mirrors.
Can you post a picture or explain your fuel sampling setup (maybe even e-mail it as I need to do that).
Again-I think you have done a great job in preparing your car.
Sorry about this post-but safety and rules compliance is the issue here.


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[This message has been edited by jc836 (edited June 17, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by jc836 (edited June 17, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by jc836 (edited June 17, 2002).]

Alright Clay My Turn,
Cage looks good! My only thoughts are on the optional bars to the front.Gcr section 18.2.1.c says" If the two optional braces refered to in 18.2.1.b are utilized they shall be mounted,one on either side,from the forward section of the cage to the FIREWALL or FRONT FENDER WELLS no braces shall pass through the front fire wall" Next in the ITCS section17.1.4.10.3 it says the same thing.
The only thing i,would worry about is if the place where those bars are attached would be considered the floor. Looks pretty close to me. As to my car,it is ready to go!!
Do not forget i'm alone at the shop on thur
and fri so, bring beer if you are coming over.June Sprints with the GT-5 fiat and EP prelude on sat and sun. Yes I've got your front brake pads and tons of advice!
See Ya
Bob"Honda"Clark

Sorry for the mis-leading advice. I did preface my comments by saying that I race Solo2, but of course this is an IT forum.

A thousand pardons....

BTW, changing the front CA bushings is very easy.

Scott

cbstd - no problem. I pretty much cuaght on that you must race CSP in a similar car. This car will get plenty of CSP time this year just for seat time. I usually drive a D Mod Honda Civic http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

jc836 - I used the fitting from a B&M fuel pressure guage which replaces the factory banjo bolt at the fuel filter. From there just a 90 degree NPT to AN -6 fitting, AN -6 line with a capped end.

"Honda Clark" - I think I'll be out on Thursday or Friday for sure. I'll bring beer - you bring a working mind. Glad to hear the 1g is in your possesion. We are going to OWN Cindiv this year http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

I'll provide an update on Thursday morning. I'm not going to be able to dig into the project until Wednesday night.

Clayton - who thinks this may be the most hectic week of his life thus far (I'm not married http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif )

Ausmith:
Thanks for the reply on the fitting-I hope that you can post a picture at some point. BTW: Inlet or Outlet side? You said you capped the end of a section of line-did you consider a Schrader valve?

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[This message has been edited by jc836 (edited June 18, 2002).]

RE: Integra ECU.....

I was only the dyno last week and decided to see if the teg ECU did much. Short answer, NO!. Sure you gain a few hunderd RPM and maybe a tiny bit more power and torque below 3500rpm but you loose throughout the rest of the power band. My car had a very very mild cam(it could be a stock cam, grrr another story), P&P, no cat, header, home made intake. Maybe it would be different if i match the ECU with the TEG injectors but i didn't want to change injectors over a hot engine. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Ausmith,

Your cage looks good. The only recommendation that I can give you, is next time, build the main hoop so that the uprights of the hoop are bent so that they are pressed against the b-pillers and the top bar pressed against the roof. This will add stiffness to the chassis and minimalize damage if the car has a rollover. I know with the CRX, it has a "platform" in the rear which makes it difficult to do this, but it can be done.

Thanks for the tip... but the next cage I do will not be on a 1st Gen CRX!

Good information on the Teg ECU... I'm still trying to find someone that can "chip" an OBD-0 ECU... I'm really just interested in a few more RPM. It would be interesting to see a wide band O2 ploted against your dyno with the Teg ECU. I wonder if it was rich or lean and if a FPR might help.

That CRX is really nice, good job.

My guess is that it was running VERY rich with the teg ECU. Actually it runs quite rich with the stock ECU(safty over proformence). I believe i should be able to find more power by running the car lean using a Fuel pressure regulator and forget about the ECU tuning(crap, more dyno time and for that i need to use a wideband O2$$$$ http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif ). If you find any info on non OE OBD-0 ECU's i would be very happy if you could pass it on.