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I tried a mugen ecu vs. stock 90-91 ecu in my crx this weekend. it felt smoother through the powerband, and the rev limiter was raised (I only took it to about 7500, and it still felt strong)
It definitely ran rich.
I'm going to try a few different chips next event...
Chris,
Where did you get the ECU?
Also, have you taken the cover off. If you don't mind doing it, can you send me a digital photo of the inerts. I have 4 modified ecu's that I got as part of a shell purchase that I don't know exactly what they are. Would like to compare.
However, the best bet would be to dyno the ecu. Have you dynoed the Mugen vs. the stock to get HP/Torque curves?
I plan to take the car and ECU's and dyno each.
The ecu was borrowed from a fellow racer to try out for the day. Inside, it looks identical to stock, except the oem chip is replaced with a socket that has a chip with a sticker with "MUGEN PM6" written on it, nothing much to look at.
I have not dynoed my car at all, but I will definitely be trying as many different chips as I can get my hands on when I do get to the dyno. The butt dyno didn't register much change in overall power, but my butt dyno is full of shit heh
Is there a shop with a Dyno in Winnipeg?
Would be fun to check out HP, before and after a rebuild.
And, of course, the "chips", timing, etc.
Jon
I have a chip burner and can easily copy any of these chips for you guys...I can also give you full instructions on installation into a stock ecu (there are a few resistors to add in addition to the socket, etc...) and I can compare any chips you have as well...just drop me an email if you need any help with any of it.
dave w
Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Nelson:
Is there a shop with a Dyno in Winnipeg?
yeah Motion Performance has recently acquired a dyno, though I've heard they haven't yet mastered using it. I'm sure one of the domestic shops also has a setup. Haven't really looked into prices or availability as of yet...
If you don't mind me asking Dave, what would be involved with this chip burning? You can e-mail me at [email protected]
The problem is in finding somewhat that will let Dave copy their Mugen ECU chip. First they paid a lot for it to give it away and second, they have it and we don't, so they have the advantage on the track
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Brent Breon
Cendiv ITA #26
www.360racing.com
Finding one to copy shouldn't be TOO much of a problem. I, for one, would like to have a BACKUP COPY of any chip that I've got.
I have only one chip that I have yet to try, but it was a copy of a copy, and was cheap.
Once I get some empirical (ie full of shit butt dyno, nice one Chris!) data on the chip, I'll share will everyone where it came from and how to get one.
Jon
PS - It's hard to put copyright info into machine code. Hint, hint, wink, nudge.
Yeah, but is it IMPOSSIBLE? Those people that paid the Mugen price (or whoever) only paid a few cents for the chip - it is the intellectual property of the map that costs. I wonder what the ramifications of this are?Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Finding one to copy shouldn't be ...It's hard to put copyright info into machine code. Hint, hint, wink, nudge.</font>
Kirk
Mugen programmed EPROMS are pretty cheap...you can find them on ebay these days for $50 or less.....seems every street racer has one. I'm not a big fan of them myself however as they were not the best written programs from what I have seen. They are usually choppy and run much too rich for stock motors. I have far more experience w/ chipping OBD-1 vtecs than with 88-91 stuff...so this is a bit of a learning experience for me as well...but you may want to take a look at the hondata - mugen page for some insight into how the obd-1 mugen stuff comapres to stock chips, and extract what you can for our applications.
I agree that many people don't like to share info and advantages...I think doing so only makes it more fun for all of us and am more than happy to share anything I know or have.
dave w
sorry heres the hondata mugen link:
http://www.hondata.com/mugen.html
I just landed a cool sponsor on the weekend...He does realtime programming of ECU's while they are on the Dyno , and this dyno also incorporates some kind of whizzy exhaust gas analyzer so that A/F ratio can be played with at the same time. Once all the numbers are satisfied he burns off a chip and installs it meaning that gains will be specific to each cars modifications! His website is www.monsterhorsepower.com and he is in the Calgary area if anyone where interested....He does extremely good work and is supposedly one of two dealers in North America who do this kind of programming
yes they use the G-force Techtom harware that has been around forever for hacking into the OE EPROMs. the harware is VERY expensive (like $10K) last I checked and is the reason there are only a few dealers that have it...only a handfull worldwide....its the same stuff mugen and spoon etc use for their chip development. But the cost is what has prompted the development of zdyne and hondata....same results, for far less money. and with both you can dial in costom chips on a dyno...same thing.
-dw
Davew - any experience with chipping a OBD-0 box? I've had a OBD-1 ecu chipped for a street car, but I'm looking for someone that can do up a chip from my 1st Gen CRX. If you are interested, I have a few spare boxes I could send you to play with.
LMK - Clayton
Just a point of interest.Mugen never made a chip only!They only made complete ECU's.Maybe this is why the chips do not work properly.AUSMITH, stop by for a visit and i'll show you a mugen ECU for your car.
Oh yeh it's in my 1st Gen car!
Bob"Honda"Clark
I have a bone to pick with all the "Honda ecu tunners". With all my previous VWs, chip manufactures gave horsepower, torque numbers with their products for all their product line / car engine models. Which, by the way, wasn't force induction. I've seen the zydne and hondata and they seem to specialize in force induction and they also state, bumping or eliminating the rev limiter. This gives me the impression that with Honda, there is no significant gain with the ecu tunning. At least for their older cars. Again, not force inducted.
If I have the wrong impression, someone please let me know and also tell who out there makes a ecu/chip for a OBDI Honda with significant improvement, curve numbers? In other words, "worth buying?".
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Richy Gonzalez
#21 ITA CRX
[This message has been edited by Richy Gonzalez (edited June 28, 2002).]
With stock or near stock cars (ITA) there isn't a lot of gains available through the ecu. The only reason I'm playing with mine is because I got the programs basically for free.
If you start doing things like bumping compression and forced induction, it's a whole different story.
Compression and breathing does change with a properly prepared IT motor.... Better gas too.
An increased rev limit would be nice for certian tracks, gearing, and wheel/tire combos. (Not saying that I would spin a motor with stock valve springs to 8000rpm, but a few extra revs can be helpful)...
Perhaps what I will do is compare via dyno the Integra ECU vs. the stock CRX ECU. That might be a decent start for comparison and learning.
davew - can you do an OBD-0
1stGenBoy - I've seen that little black box hanging on the wall... remember the rules state that it must be contained in the "original" housing... Oh, and you motor needs to be 1.5L not 2.0L http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
just a general question here.....what kind of front wheel hp does the 1st gen crx motor generate when it's built to the nines...including electronic mods...and how much $?
Completely built with ITB's, cams, compression, dry sump, etc.....
They are capable of 200whp, maybe more?
That motor built with forced induction is also capable of pretty high whp.
As far as an EW-4 motor built to IT specs... I'll let you know by March 2003. I'm going to do some baseline dyno (Dynapak) before I build the motor this winter.
[This message has been edited by Ausmith (edited July 10, 2002).]