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Gregg and others might be interested to know of this promo that is floating around different forums...
http://www.nasaproracing.com/catalog/speci...ial_offers.html
Raymond Blethen
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http://rstperformance.bizland.com/rstsignature.jpg
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
1st and 2nd 2003 ITB NARRC Championship
1st and 6th 2003 ITB NERRC Championship
3rd 2003 ITB ARRC Sprint Race
4th 2003 ITB ARRC Endoro
1st 2003 AS NERRC and NARRC Championships
Thanks Ray - I'm trying to figure out what to buy - darn systems are expensive, but I will buy something before the season starts.
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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
NNJR
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that thing worries me! If it were made of black leather you might find some interseting guys wearing it in some interesting bars, if you know what I mean.... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
What's teh real story on it? Does it depend on it's adjustment for its effectiveness?
Does it sacrifice other parts of the body to protect the neck?
And remember, Bil Simpson isn't with Simpson anymore.
Finally, I don't think that a device like this which has a shelf life is a great place to save a few bucks.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
The thing I don't like about the Hutchens and the Simpson device are the crotch straps. They look a lot like the climbing harness I used to wear and that had to be adjusted just right in order to keep me from singing soprano. While I'd be happy my life may have been saved, I might possibly feel that death would be better than -that- pain.
Didn't one of the NASCAR drivers experience an injury down there from his Hutchens?
edit -> Stupid homonyms...
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
[This message has been edited by planet6racing (edited February 05, 2004).]
Bingo.Quote:
Originally posted by lateapex911:
..I don't think that a device like this which has a shelf life is a great place to save a few bucks.
The most expensive thing you can buy is a "cheap" one. Products made on a sewing machine need to be replaced every two years, and they must be kept very tight in order to work well. Most drivers wear them loosely, so they only remove about 50% of the head loads.
The net is that it costs about $4.50/year for every % of head load reduction for a Simpson D-Cel sold at retail. However, for a certain other product (which shall remain unnamed) the cost is less than $1.00/year.
We have an interesting spreadsheet which includes nearly all products.
Bill,
Yeah, it's categorized as a "testicular injury." http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif
[Edit: Proper tense is always appreciated]
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited February 05, 2004).]
****Yeah, it's categorized as a "testicular injury." http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif ***
That would be the same injury that the second guy in the Superbowl Bud comerical received. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif
Have Fun http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David
....and if you include the support series for NASCAR, I believe the number of "testicular injuries" would be more than one.....
Body parts aside for the moment, we've been giving some thought to how we could ease the financial burden of purchasing a head and neck restraint by converting it to an annual expense rather than a capital purchase, i.e. the product is rented/leased rather than purchased outright.
I know, it's not like leasing a car where the title remains with the "seller." We would need to charge a credit card annually, and there is always the chance that some low life would cancel the card, leave town and sell the product on Ebay, but the idea is appealing.
Anyone want to lease an Isaac system for $89.50 per year?
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
Gregg:
Well, I don't know. Financially, I can see where it might make sense. But from a personal responsibility standpoint, I don't like it. My concern would be 3 years down the road when I decide to move/change cards and forget that there is this yearly charge, then have you trying to track me down.
Maybe a payment plan would be better, like "10 easy payment of $89.99 each. That's less than the cost of one tire per month!" Of course, you'd have to get an infomercial and start off with a monthly price of like $3,500...
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
There is a theory of pricing that says that consumers attach more value to something if they are reminded constantly that they are paying for it. A lease scheme would also make it a less painful proposition, spreading the financial load out over time: It would personally help me in my budget situation!
I would wonder if there were liability issues - personal injury rather than financial - associated with this kind of plan...
K
I've ordered my HANS. The price is coming down, plus we get another 5% discount with a NASA membership. $821.75
I wasn't a believer until I last Nov. I was at a lapping day at VIR, following a Porsche Cup GT3. I wathced the car go off in the left hander at after the "climbing esses". It nosed into the armco and totally destoyed the car. It was the hardest impact I ever saw while out on the track. The driver was unhurt. I spoke to the driver's father afterwards, and he was strangely upbeat about the incident, considering he just had 150k reduced to a pile of scrap. He said that he had just convinced his son to start wearing the HANS, and that was the first session that he wore it. Later that day, I borrowed a friends Hans and Helmet, It was comfortable and unrestrictive. I just have to change my routine of getting in and out of the car.
[This message has been edited by zracer22 (edited February 05, 2004).]
Bill,
Good points. The payment plan is a better idea.
I bring this up because a customer at the Rolex mentioned that he knew several drivers who were new to racing and wanted a H&N restraint, but they didn't know how long they would be racing and were looking at the cheap sewing machine products. He suggested a buy-back policy, i.e. we buy Isaac systems back based on a predetermined depreciation schedule.
Two problems: 1) The customer is still out the up-front costs and, 2) we can't use any systems we buy back because they may have been crashed.
BTW, speaking of crashes, you will be pleased to know that your adhesive held up very well last weekend: 100mph shunt into the wall of a road course. The car was totaled but the driver is fine--he called to say thanks. The helmet mounts are perfect. Nice work. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
Kirk,Quote:
Originally posted by Knestis:
There is a theory of pricing that says that consumers attach more value to something if they are reminded constantly that they are paying for it.
My marketing professor referred to this as a variant of the "Sweet Lemon" psychology, the opposite of "Sour Grapes," i.e. "I've invested so much in this thing, it must be good."
That's the idea. Many racers look at their racing budget as an annual expense (plus the car, of course), not a one-time capital outlay.Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">A lease scheme would also make it a less painful proposition, spreading the financial load out over time...</font>
Offhand, I believe the liability would be unchanged. Just a guess.Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">I would wonder if there were liability issues - personal injury rather than financial - associated with this kind of plan...</font>
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
Sign me up. This will be my first full year of racing, and the startup costs have hit pretty hard.Quote:
Originally posted by gsbaker:
Anyone want to lease an Isaac system for $89.50 per year?
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Marty Doane
ITS RX7 #13
CenDiv WMR
I like the ~100 per year (heck it's 1/2 the cost of my family membership, racing license, physical, and GCR), but let me show my ignorance and ask , what happens when you get a new helmet? Even if you are a big old conservative turd like me and will gladly let that Glory Crazed, Blood Shot Eyed, Wannabes pass you instead of taking a spin, every couple years your gonna need a new lid. Is this cost offset by those that don't stick it out, or is the hardware covered but the labor to install on a new helmet extra?
I like the idea, and personally, it's probably the only way I'll end up with a H&N restraint system. It's gotta be in the budget. And if I raced in some other areas where there are more entrants and thus the Hot Shot to Hobbyest ratio is different, I might change my tune.
Tell you what - you have my check tomorrow if you lease the complete ISAAC system. I am reluctant to drop $700-800 bucks since I just dropped more than $18K on car/spares. But my noodle is worth protecting more than the hardware. If I can get the H&N restraint for $100 a season, that's a no brainer. I'll buy the adhesive setup for $60 without thinking about it either. Also, you have me as a customer for life as the product will evolve, I would want the latest and greatest and keep paying a lease fee.
This will move a ton of product. Great idea.
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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
NNJR
How much does a day in Intensive Care cost ?
I like the lease plan idea.
But I don't like the corporate exposure. Still, I think it might be a good idea for Isaac to persue.
First, you have to charge an upfront cost. Like renting an apartment, 1st, last and a security! At least you will have a significant amount, and coupled with a few subsequent charges, you'll at least cover the cost if the guy goes AWOL.
Second, the leasee gets the stripper model until he hits a certain point. At that point, he gets an offer to extend the contract in exchange for the next model up the line.
And just like any lease, you would have to run a credit chack to weed out the known offenders. In the end, most racers will be honorable, but you will eat one here and there. At least until it really takes off.
I think a five year payoff is appropriate, but it should carry a larger final amount than a cash sale (obviously!). Throw in a set of mounts and the adhesive for 'value added', to take care of the inevitable helmet change.
While this might not be a huge moneymaker for the firm, it might move a lot of product, which would in turn spur on new sales.
Seriously, this is a great product, and as it sits, is the best product for the dollar, and I think the best product price no object. But lets face it, it ain't as sexy as a new set of dampers. But we all know we need it........
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
We woulod need 3 systems wich puts a rather large damper on the $$$... a yearly lease/rent to own would be appealing to us...
Only 1 question... You mention above that you can not take a product back
"2) we can't use any systems we buy back because they may have been crashed."
What happens if after a year the leasee decides he/she doesn't want to lease the next season?
Raymond Blethen
RST Performance Racing
Scott,Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Nutter:
...what happens when you get a new helmet?
You would simply move the mounts to the new helmet, same as if you owned it. If you went with the adhesive on the original helmet, you would need to decide whether you wanted to cut the mounts off the old helmet, or purchase new ones.
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
Raymond,Quote:
Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
...You mention above that you can not take a product back...
What happens if after a year the leasee decides he/she doesn't want to lease the next season?
Raymond Blethen
RST Performance Racing
Hmm. Good point. As I said, we've just been kicking this around so far and haven't really worked through the details. You guys are throwing out some good ideas.
There are two aspects of your scenario that come to mind: 1) What happens to the physical product and, 2) what happens to the lessor/lessee relationship.
One the product side, yes, I mentioned above that we couldn't use returned systems. Actually, we could if they were checked/refurbished. The demo systems we currently offer have been under our control at the track or, worse case, used for a weekend rental without incident.
After a year of use a system would need to be thoroughly checked/refurbished before it could be sold, otherwise it would be tagged as a "walk around" demo, i.e. we show it to drivers but never let it get on the track. Of course, it wouldn't show very well because it would be a bit banged up, and the cost of labor, magnafluxing and refinishing a single system would be very high. We would probably just write it off.
On the business side your scenario gets even more interesting. A formal lease agreement would work of course, but what happens if the driver crashes, the Isaac system saves their life, but something gets bent? Now they need to lease another Isaac while still making payments on the first.
It can get complicated, can't it?
One clean way to do this is to offer the product as a complete annual service: $X/year, period. Crash five times? Fine, you get 5 Isaac replacements at no additional charge, etc. We would assume considerable risk, so the $89.50/year won't cut it. However, with the Simpson D-Cel at $225 per year for about a 50% head load reduction, we have some room.
Drivers are starting to look at these products long term. We have seen an increase in sales to former Hutchens users, and once the D-Cel customers have to go back for another one in a year or so, we expect them to show up also.
Thanks for the ideas. If there is a reasonable way to make this work, we will give it a try.
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
Quote:
Originally posted by gsbaker:
Body parts aside for the moment, we've been giving some thought to how we could ease the financial burden of purchasing a head and neck restraint by converting it to an annual expense rather than a capital purchase, i.e. the product is rented/leased rather than purchased outright.
I know, it's not like leasing a car where the title remains with the "seller." We would need to charge a credit card annually, and there is always the chance that some low life would cancel the card, leave town and sell the product on Ebay, but the idea is appealing.
Anyone want to lease an Isaac system for $89.50 per year?
Yes Gregg, I would lease today.
It looks like we have some interest.
You know guys, it's always possible to self finance a purchase like this. Just spread out the CC payments over a few months. I know, there is some interest, but if you don't drag it out over years, it's not that bad.
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
Speaking of adhesive. I got my adhesive early last year. It was one of the first ones sent out. I was rushing around trying to get ready for the first race and never had time to use it.
Here we are one year later, and I'm fixing to glue the brackets on to a new helmet with said adhesive. I don't see any kind of date code on this stuff. Is there some sort of shelf life I should be concerned about?
Wayne
Wayne,Quote:
Originally posted by Wayne:
Here we are one year later, and I'm fixing to glue the brackets on to a new helmet with said adhesive. I don't see any kind of date code on this stuff. Is there some sort of shelf life I should be concerned about?
Yes, your adhesive expired last Thursday the 5th, so instead of being 3.00 times stronger than needed for a 45G impact, it is now only 2.99 times stronger.
Seriously, get in touch with us and we will send you a fresh one at no charge.
Really? You kept it around for a year?
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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com
You know guys, it's always possible to self finance a purchase like this. Just spread out the CC payments over a few months. I know, there is some interest, but if you don't drag it out over years, it's not that bad.
Gregg-
Thats what the shock guy, the quaiffe guy, the tire guy, and the girlfriend said http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
Raymond
Yup, had the brackets bolted to my old helmet... with good intentions of gluing brackets onto my new helmet for the 03 season. Used the old helmet for all of 2003, while the new helmet was resting in the box getting ready for the 04 season.Quote:
Originally posted by gsbaker:
Wayne,
Yes, your adhesive expired last Thursday the 5th, so instead of being 3.00 times stronger than needed for a 45G impact, it is now only 2.99 times stronger.
Seriously, get in touch with us and we will send you a fresh one at no charge.
Really? You kept it around for a year?
Thanks
Wayne
I've seen this in person recently and like it.
Bob"Honda"Clark
[This message has been edited by 1stGenBoy (edited February 14, 2004).]
Sign me up for a lease when it available!!
Bob"Honda"Clark