Can the 04 Durango V8 335hp/370 lb-tq (345/375 in the truck so probably an easy ecu flash?) pull a 20' enclosed trailer? Dodge says 8900 lbs. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif
Small car ITA CRX BTW.
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Can the 04 Durango V8 335hp/370 lb-tq (345/375 in the truck so probably an easy ecu flash?) pull a 20' enclosed trailer? Dodge says 8900 lbs. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif
Small car ITA CRX BTW.
I have the same question but for a 01 Ford Supercrew. Has anyone?
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Richy Gonzalez
GB Racing - #24 ITA CRX
LAMIN-X Protective Films
I think it is more likely the trailer will push the Dodge.
I just upgraded from a Tahoe to a Suburban for my 20'.
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"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series
The Durango has about the same wheelbase as the Tahoe/Expedition but a better motor(not sure about the trans). I would think that with the right tires and hitch, it would be a good tow vehicle. I havent seen all the specs but check to make sure that the tires are rated for more than "P". You might have to run the smaller, less cool tire package since I'll bet that there are few 20" heavy duty tires. YMMV depending on the type of tow that you will regularly face ie all interstate, across town, etc. I towed for 5 yrs using two different 5.4 Expeditions and only had a complaint about the 17" tire package; I ended up replacing the stock stuff with Michelin Pilots to get a stiffer sidewall.
I looked at Supercrew's until I realized that they had a significantly lower tow rating than other F-150's. I dont know if that holds true for the new series.
Richie,
Before you can tow anything that big, you would have to put the springs back under that thing to pick it back up off the ground. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/redface.gif)
You going to Sebring in February? See ya buddy
Jim
I'd say it depends on the trailer. My trailer, also 20', is a Wells Cargo, known as one of the heavier makes, and weighs around 3200 empty.
Without going the full aluminum route (big $), I think you can find something lighter on the market. OTOH, I've never heard of a Wells with a cracked frame. Since I tow with a PS F350 I figured the extra weight was a good trade off for the durability. Plus, I got a smokin' deal on my (used) rig.
Ty
I towed a 20' Pace Shadow with a Tahoe for
3 years. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
A friend lost a trailer, race car and Tahoe with the same setup.
You can do it, but something Suburban sized or a F250/2500 would lead to less white
knuckle driving. Helper springs and a load leveling/anti-sway hitch helps.
Its not so much the horsepower as it is the wheelbase (leverage) and the spring/shock setup on SUV's. They really aren't tow vehicles. Neither are the F150/1500 class trucks. Anything with a half-ton rating (F250/2500) will tow comfortably in the 20' to 24' range. After that its time for a dually.
The new Durango looks cool though. Do they have a Durango 2500?
Tom
I'm thinking the new Durango would not be bad... here's my thinking.
Similar weight, wheelbase, track, and oa length to a Tahoe. Looks lower (I always thought the Tahoe was top-heavy).
Plus, it has a coil spring rear with watts linkage and rear sway bar. With some air shocks it may not be dangerous.
However, if the Tahoe owners on the board say that is a deathtrap, then I defer to them.
A good friend had his Tahoe/20' trailer and racecar flip last summer on his way home from the track. He tried to miss a car that pulled out in front of him and the trailer took over control as soon as he turned the wheel.
I tow my 20' with a Toyota Tundra 4x4 long bed. I love it and have had zero problems. It's all about wheel base. The longer the better. Also, a weight distributing hitch and sway control are "must haves"
That's what I was thinking. If I get air shocks, load leveling hitch, and good tires do you guys think pulling a 20' enclosed is safe? It has a good motor and good rear suspension, the problem looks to be the wheelbase though.Quote:
Originally posted by eh_tony!!!:
Plus, it has a coil spring rear with watts linkage and rear sway bar. With some air shocks it may not be dangerous.
The Durango is built on the Dakota chassis and is not well suited for pulling a 20' enclosed trailer ... no matter what the Dodge marketing hype says. My Durango (98) has weak brakes and a friend has burned 2 transmissions in his Durango trying to pull an enclosed trailer.
Scott
[This message has been edited by Scott Malbon (edited January 20, 2004).]
That's what the 7/70 is for. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
I don't know what else to get I need something my wife can drive everyday. We can both have a nice car. Mine is the race car(I drive a junk box to work $400) and hers is the SUV which I am hoping to use as double duty to tow my race car. This is the biggest I think she will be able to handle as it is she thinks the durango is too big.
What other choices do I have. The pathfinder armana is nice longer wheelbase but it is bigger than the Durango.
Damn if I could afford it I would get a F350 SD with dualies but that is not going to happen.
What about I add to the list of tires, air shocks, load leveling hitch a 20' featherlight.
I know it's bank but it's much cheaper than buying another vehicle, if it will make towing a 20' possible.
BTW how much do those 20' weight and how much do they cost(around)? talking about the featherlights.
And are there any other quality aluminum trailers?
Is there any disadvantages to going with an aluminum trailer?
Thanks again guys lot's of good info.
[This message has been edited by 0100 (edited January 20, 2004).]
Major 'reset' here...this may not be the message you wanted to hear, but it's an important one:
What if you don't go the 'enclosed trailer route ? Based on another post on the this site, it seems you're new at this. Why jump in that deep (enclosed trailer), when an open would probably meet your needs, reduce the expense and minimize the 'excitement' when towing ?
Most of us started out racing with an open trailer, or a tow dolly, or (!!!!!!) driving our race cars to the track. Once we figured out that we wanted to keep at this sport, and wanted more 'stuff' at the track, we started looking at bigger 'stuff', like enclosed trailers and diesel duallies and Freightliner Toterhomes and 48' Featherlite stackers pulled by a Kenworth...but that took a bunch of years to get us there.
My general rule: Tow vehicle & trailer can NEVER cost more than the race car. OK...you need a daily driver for the wife, so we'll cut you some slack, but you shouldn't be towing a $5-10k race car with a $40k rig...something about that is just WEIRD.
I didn't make the jump into enclosed trailers until I had a race car with no roof and no windows. It was mostly to keep from having a wet ass at the track. Big investment to keep from getting a pruned butt, huh ? I still have my open trailer, and still go to a couple of races every year with it. Why ? It reminds me that I don't NEED all the crap I load in the big trailer, and reminds me of my racing roots. Nobody NEEDS an enclosed trailer...it's just a WANT. That WANT ratchets everything else up...until you're way upside down with a $40K tow vehicle and trailer pulling a $3-5 ITB car.
Start small. You may hate racing. It's easier to sell a small pile of racing stuff than it is to sell a big pile of racing stuff.
Time to re-prioritize. Do you need it ?
In another thread, you asked about all sorts of stuff to bring to the track. Not trying to be harsh here, but you're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Focus on the race car and the race car DRIVER. If you're still learning, you won't (or shouldn't...) have time for anything else. Forget the wide screen TV. Forget the dishwasher. Forget the hot tub. You won't have time for any of that crap anyway.
Not sure how much lighter the featherlite trailers are but a nothing fancy 20' x 102" is going to set you back +/- $9K.
What's the wheelbase difference between a '03 Yukon non XL and a 04 Durango? My best friend tows a 20'x102" Interstate West with a Line-X'd floor and ITS Rx7 behind the Yukon. With tools and spares the trialer weight is about 7500#. It was quite an eyeful folowing her on the tow home from Vegas. Apparently scared her enough that she went out and bought a 1000# load equalizer hitch and sway controller, says it was "much better"...still not a relaxing cruise, but at least she wasn't white knuckling it and causing all around her to have heart palpatations.
The reason I am going with an enclosed right off the bat is mainly for my wife. She is going to be at the track with me and if she's not happy I'm not happy. Do you think I care about the tv, laptop(with online access), stereo, or a shelter when it rains. Well maybe the shelter. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif I am going to be wrenching or whatever. I choose to go with the enclosed after reading posts on this board and others, on how much better they felt the enclosed was over the open. The negatives being more of a pain in the ass to pull. That is why I posted this question. If an 04 durango with the hemi, load leveling hitch, nice tires, and air shocks wont pull a 20' enclosed featherlight safely. Then it's back to the drawing board. I want to do this right the first time. Buy an open then sell it down the road you lose money to upgrade to an enclosed when you could have just went to the enclosed in the first place. Why did you buy an enclosed? At 27 I have only done shifter carts and love them just too dangerous. I know I am going to love full size wheel to wheel racing. That's why I'm going full out. These questions may sound like the cart before the horse coming from a newbie but when I show up for my very first event I want to be prepared just as much as the 30 year SCCA vet. I don't like doing things half ass. What else do you want me to post about? If you check the NER forum down the bottom I posted questions about rating the NER tracks from best to worst so it can help me decide what tracks I can go to. Now I can make informed decision. Info right from SCCA vets. It's 30 below zero up here in the NER at least last week it was I couldn't work on the car if I wanted to, that's why I posted these questions so I could get the info on the other half of racing "towing". Time to prioritize. Dude you don't know me. I just dropped 3 gees on a skip barber 3 day race school. Will be at LRP in April. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif That is why I posted the question last week on places to stay at LRP. I Could have just attended the NHIS double SCCA school to get my lic. but I wanted to do this right the first time. 3K gone in three days kinda alot of dough for someone who doesn't know if he will like racing.
Sorry about my rant. If someone know's how much a featherlight 20' weights please post.
Thanks.
------------------------Yukon----Pathfinder
Exterior length--------(198.9")---(206.9")
Exterior body width----(78.9")----(78.8")
Exterior height--------(76.5")----(78.7")
Wheelbase------------(116.0")---(123.2")
-----------------------Yukon------Durango
Exterior length--------(198.9")---(200.8")
Exterior body width----(78.9")----(76.0")
Exterior height--------(76.5")----(74.3")
Wheelbase------------(116.0")---(119.2")
-------------------------Suburban
Exterior length-----------(219.3")
Exterior body width-------(79.8")
Exterior height-----------(76.5")
Wheelbase--------------(130.0")
-------------------------Expedition
Exterior length-----------(205.8")
Exterior body width-------(78.7")
Exterior height-----------(77.4")
Wheelbase--------------(119.0")
Durango 335/370 or possible 345/375
Pathfinder 305/385
Yukon/Suburban 325/365
Expedition 260/350
Nissan rates the pathfinder at 9100 lbs pulling. Look at the wheelbase 123.2" 7.2" longer than the yukon. I never really looked at the WB on these vehicles was more concerned about overall size since my little wife will be driving it, but maybe this is the answer. I was looking more at hp figures but damn I am kinda liking it. 305 hp not bad 40 less than the durango but 385 tq. 9100! What do you guys think about this pulling a 20' enclosed. Do you think it is much better option or just about the same as the durango? Because the durango can be had for much cheaper so if it's not that much of a difference, I think I'd rather save the money and go with the durango.
The pathfinder is built on a welded steel full-length boxed ladder frame shared with the Titan. The durango all they say is it is an all-new hydroformed frame for added stiffness. "The Dodge Durango is all-new from the ground up with a fully hydroformed frame and chassis that is unique to Durango," said Frank Klegon, Vice President - Truck Product Team.
[This message has been edited by 0100 (edited January 21, 2004).]
It sounds like you are from New England. If you have a Pit Talk near you, open it up and find the ad for Perfection Motorsports (802-434-2239) in Richmond, VT. Pete Mumford is the guy you want to talk to. He will give you all the info, and then sell you the trailer that will best fit your needs (if you decide to purchase through him). Reasonable costs, too.Quote:
Originally posted by 0100:
It's 30 below zero up here in the NER at least last week it was I couldn't work on the car if I wanted to.
<snip>
If someone know's how much a featherlight 20' weights please post.
Good luck with whatever you do.
Jeremy
I did see there ad with the PACE trailer. Thanks Jeremy I will definitly give him a call.
Not shooting at ya, Bud...just making sure that you've asked yourself all the important questions. Sounds like you're on your way...just remember - the trip to the track is waaay more dangerous than the time on the track itself. Don't skimp on tow vehicles.Quote:
Originally posted by 0100:
Sorry about my rant.
Thanks.
I think I just got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. I really do want to here everyones advice. It is very helpful, even if it's telling me the Durango won't pull as much as a semi. Wish it could.
I would bet that your friend is towing with the O/D on. A big no no with the previous generation of Mopar OD trannies. Not so sure about the current trannies.Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Malbon:
My Durango (98) has weak brakes and a friend has burned 2 transmissions in his Durango trying to pull an enclosed trailer.
[This message has been edited by Speed Raycer (edited January 21, 2004).]
I understand making the wife happy, believe me. But is she going to be happy white knuckling it to the track when towing the enclosed trailer. Open trailers provide way less wind resistance and are cheaper. Why not that and an EZ-Up canopy with side curtains. An open trailer will also be less stressful on the tow vehicle, thus reducing repair costs down the road. Just a thought.
[This message has been edited by B Schley (edited January 21, 2004).]
It is a difficult comparison because price is such factor with these vehicles but the Nissan would seem to be the vehicle if all things are otherwise equal. Wheelbase is probably the most important feature. All the vehicles that you list will tow the trailer that you plan to purchase. If possible, I prefer excessive capacity but all of my tows involve 4-8 hrs on busy interstates running with semi's. You can find stories of folks who tow with old model big Blazer/Bronco and have survived but I dont want to go there. SUV's are good for one thing in racing: towing.
My wife doesnt mind the Excursion but we dont use it much for daily driving; just racing, road trips, the dump and the dog. Otherwise I drive a hi-mile Miata or other sports car; my wife drives a Maxima. I did drive the Exc today to court but just because if all the parking spots are taken I can jump the curb and park in the grass. Tough to do that with a lowered Miata. I can tell you that the Expeditions were ok tow vehicles but seem like a sports car compared to the Exc. You barely know that there is a trailer behind you and that is mainly due to the big white wall that you see in the rearview. I was going to just get a F-250/350 to save some $$ but my wife declared that she would not drive a truck; so I had to spend the extra money for the Exc.
The armada is one neat truck... Even though it is bigger than the durango, all the mags say it handles better than any other med/large SUV, almost sporty. Plus they feel the HP is underrated since the damn thing cut a 0-60 in the mid 7's.
Add in the cool looks and I'm for the Nissan. Although I have not drive one yet.
Follow up to whenry. I tow with an Excursion, and wheelbase is the key (139"). Pulls my open 16ft. trailer and CRX like nothing. My wife has become very comfortable driving it to the point where she has taken it on her own through the loop in chicago. It is not something to be driven everyday, we leave that to a 1990 Honda Civic ($600 purchase) and a 1998 Jeep Cherokee.
Eh tony,
I test drove a Nissan Armada for fun. The thing is a beast. Its got a ton of power and Nissan has done a nice job of copying the finer aesthetic points of the other SUV's and integrating them in this vehicle. I like it, but it doesn't feel as solid as my Excursion, but is damn close. The thing even has an exhaust that gives it a real wicked sounding growl when driving it.
One other thought, and no offense here. There seem to be numerous concessions being made for the wife (trailer, Direct TV) etc. We all have those issues, believe me. Is she 100% behind this? All the hours in the garage, at the track in the rain and cold. Don't go in full tilt if she is not behind you all the way or it will cause future problems. There have been threads on this subject on this board in the past. I apologize if I have over stepped my bounds, but I am speaking from experience.
[This message has been edited by B Schley (edited January 21, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by B Schley (edited January 21, 2004).]
You can buy a used motorhome and aon open trailer for less than the Featherlite trailer. All the comforts of home (and all the problems of a car).
An open trailer will not depreciate significantly.
You could safely tow the open trailer with the Durango to events as well
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"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series
There are plusses and minuses to all the vehicle and trailer combinations so far listed. From what I have seen in this and other posting by you 0100, you are looking at spending A LOT of money. I have to second some of the other's advice that you have been given. It may be wise to start off a little simpler, and with less money invested in the beginning. I always try to discourage racing on credit. It gets very easy to get way over your head in debt to go racing. Just remember it's a hobby. Like some others have said, if you haven't put a wheel on the track in SCCA racing, you may want to try a few weekends (even renting a trailer and tow vehicle) to make sure you are truly in it for the long haul. Another question you have to ask yourself is if you total the racecar the first weekend out there, do you have enough money to rebuild/build/buy a new one. Especially if you have tied up a lot of your money in all the stuff we have been talking about, or filled up your credit cards.
Most of us have had to slowly build up the quality and quantity of equipment over the years. After towing with a rusty 1978 Ford pick up (460 motor) for ten years I finally saved up enough to buy a F-350 Dually to tow. I still have an open trailer, but that too will eventually be upgraded.
Now I completely understand the "keeping the wife happy" deal. But when my wife ands I look back at our first race weekend, with our pup tent and rented trailer and truck, no tools, and a crappy floor jack, we have a good chuckle. I am sure your wife will survive a few weekends like that too, at least ...er ...for ..a uh....while. No one here is trying to discourage you, just trying to steer you in the right direction from personal experience.
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Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56
dodge has a history of very very bad gas milage when towing! keeo that in mind!
I was waiting for Bad Al's point - and it's a good one. The only downside is that your tow vehicle doesn't double as a daily driver to move the kids around town.
That said, I have had three trailering accidents and I have always been as careful and paranoid on the subject as anyone I've ever met. Even doing everything RIGHT it is still a risky business: Skimping AT ALL is begging for trouble and you don't know the definition of "not fun" until you have what amounts to three vehicles all hooked together and trying to screw up your life at 60mph.
For the record, here are the combinations that have tried to take me out:
1. Chevy Astro van + Mazda RX7 II + dual axle trailer w/inertia brakes
2. 1/2t Suburban + same Mazda + dual axle trailer w/electric brakes and all the band-aids (load leveler, friction sway control)
3. 4-door dually Dodge P/U + empty dual axle implement trailer w/electic brakes
See a pattern here? No - because there isn't one. Trailers are evil and will take any opportunity you give them to mess you up. There were arguably causes in each case that we should have anticipated since any "accident" is just the culmination of a series of human errors but we can make our chances better or worse, accepting that we screw up once in a while.
Now THERE'S a rant. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
K
PS - some of you have heard my stories before and know that the reason we got that particular car from Mazda NA is that it fell off of a transporter. Hmmm...
Having an 03 Dakota/Durango I can safely say it does very well with our R&R 20' open aluminum trailer. The trailer weighs 1250 bare and 100 more with winch batteries and spare tire mounted. Towing over the mountains in PA and New York was quite comfy for a 4x2 4.7 auto.
The Durango version of the truck has an rated capacity that is higher-but keep in mind that it weighs considerably more than my truck. I was forced to install Timbren bumpstop/spring devices to compensate for the HD towing springs not being up to the job. Chrysler refused to put the correct springs on the truck as they are not directly listed-so use the warranty if you want. A word of warning about parking garages with trucks and SUVs these days-check where your wife will be going before buying a vehicle. Clearances are being reduced to as low as 6'2". This creates a real hassle for me. My son's wife has a Durango 4x4 and swears by it. Great for the grandkids and trips so they tell me. Otherwise-I will not give this truck up for the forseeable future.
Based on the threads on this board and what my fabricator told me-you might want to look for a dedicated tow vehicle. He has a Chevy dually that pulls his 28' Haulmark just fine.
Can you reasonably purchase an enclosed aluminum trailer? Sure-contact R&R or even Trailerworld for their recommendations. There is also Leonard T&T in Ohio-they sell most brands. If you want a Featherlite they are not cheap at all.
Good luck putting the right package together.
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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow
See God once, and you'll all decide to buy a bigger tow vehicle, add good brakes, better hitches, more lights, etc.
Been there, done that.
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Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers
Hi all have not posted in a long while my 2 cents... I have worked in the automotive buss. for 23 years and have towed for 16 years. Fourmula fords on single axle open trailers to World Challange C5 in a 40' 5th wheel behind a c3500 454 cu in. #1 rule make sure u are comfortable with what you have to tow with!!! #2 rule make sure you have plenty of leeway for all the tools spares gas coolers etc. #3 rule BRAKES GM and Dodge 1/2 trucks used a GM Delco rear brake shoe that was Garbage (up until they stwiched to 4 wheel disc) the shoes glaze over and then u are using up to 90%^ of your frt brakes!!! If you have one check them and change them out. Also use the best quailty pads/ shoes u can. Bendix fleet mettalic or the like stay away from the ceramic pads they do not have all the bugs worked out quite yet. #4 drive slowly and stay the heck out of the fast lanes except to pass those guys with the seadoos are alwasys in the fast lanes! tahnks Lobsta
For an inexpensive tow vehicle try a used full size conversion van. I started racing in 98 with a 93 Chev van, 350 engine, pulling a 20ft Pace enclosed trailer. Sold it at 140,000 miles and got a 96 with 350 Vortech. The Vortech pulls noticeably better. I use friction sway control and equalizer hitch. Follows really well. The van is a good place to camp at the track without spending lots of money. It's also my daily driver. Still pulling the same race trailer and sometimes a 32 ft travel trailer. Nothing is better per dollar invested.