ITA Competitiveness

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10-25-2003, 08:52 PM
dieselsdad

ITA Competitiveness

New to the forum, been watching/reading for a few years, just never posted. Man do you guys bicker alot, it's been humorous. First off, my SCCA membership expired a few years ago so I'm a bit rusty on what's been going on. With the onslaught of Honda product what will become of the ITA RX-7? I've seen people talking about the comp. adjustments, like everyone else I'm waiting to see what if anything will become of them. Just how much slower are the FULLY prepped RX-7's than the CRX's or 240SX's? I'm building another RX-7 and am not interested in running spec 7, I know about IT-7 but I'm mainly curious as to what people expect will happen to maintain some parity. I'm a little tired of all the spec classes personally, I'd rather see some variety mixing it up. My IT car is only a small bump in the road to becoming an E-prod car so I'm not too bent about it. Just curious as to what the future holds for ITA 7's.

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mikey
10-25-2003, 10:02 PM
lateapex911

Quote:

Originally posted by dieselsdad:
Man do you guys bicker alot, it's been humorous.

Ya think?! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif You ought to try out the Prod forum! Makes us look like sissies! (Well, actually, it's the other way around!

Quote:

Just curious as to what the future holds for ITA 7's.

You and me both!

Too early to tell, but I think there is hope. To answer your question regarding the typical deficit given up to the class front runners, that's tough to put a number on. It depends on the track, and not just the tracks length. At a track like Lime Rock, which is almost entirely right turns, the inherent left weight bias of the RX-7 put's it at odds with the circuit, so it is tough to be close to the front. Obviously, other tracks that turn the other way are friends to the 'ole 7! Time deficit? About 2-5%.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited October 25, 2003).]
10-25-2003, 10:23 PM
dieselsdad

any idea's on the best suspension set-up now? last time out the tokiko illuminas were the hot stuff but I'm thinking about the bilsteins. seems like the tri-link is the new trick now, turn-in spacers? tried cambering the axle once, I know it's not legal, it was more of a "wonder if I could do that", did actually work but can't get much camber out of it. Are there any real tricks out there for the 7 that people are willing to talk about? our last car was VERY tame. would like to really prep this car to the nth degree.
10-26-2003, 08:15 AM
ddewhurst

Mikey, being that your from down that way they run what they call Spec-7 in Texas but they are dam neer ITA/7's. I think their site is Spec-7.com

My bet on the PCA is that it's a bunch of lip service.

On this site the bickering is ongoing about trying to meet the rules. Mostly owners/drivers talking here. On the Production site the bickering is about how they can protect the good ol boys who are illegal with a positive tone. A lot of non owners/non current drivers doing a lot of the talking.

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
Milwaukee Region
Spec-7 # 14

[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited October 26, 2003).]
10-26-2003, 10:29 AM
Geo

Quote:

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Mikey, being that your from down that way they run what they call Spec-7 in Texas

Mickey, if you're from Texas you'll probably have a little better time of it with an ITA RX-7. While there are certainly some CRXen around, they are not proliferating like bunnies. However, you will have to contend with Bob Stretch in his 240SX. At my last race he was dicing with the leading ITS car most of the race from what my friends and family told me (I sadly did not see any of this).

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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
10-26-2003, 11:34 AM
dieselsdad

Actually I from Arkansas. We generally run SCCA at Mamphis and Hallet and run Hallet's COMMA series as well. We have also run at Topeka, College Stattion, Daytona, Sebring, and Mid-Ohio as well in various other cars. I'm familiar with Bob Sretch, if you've been around him for awhile you may remember his yellow and ported, I mean purple RX-7. Man, that car was fast. I don't know what he had under the hood but it idled like a bridge port. Glad to see him doing well in other series now as well. Have also raced against him in the 240SX and yes, he was a contender with most of our ITS field at the time also. I guess that's what I'm getting at with the competitiveness of the first gen 7. Bob is obviously a talented driver, but moved on to the 240 to be more competitive. Can we expect the SCCA to make any changes to allow the cars to be more equal. As it is now the class leading ITB cars are as fast as the 7's. Do you think the really fast 7 drivers have moved into other cars to stay competitive, thus leaving only those who aren't driving at 10/10ths? Remeber, my ITA 7 is only staying this way until funds allow it to become a E-Prod car. I'm curious about all of this more for the sake of the sport than my own well being. Is it time we said "the car has outlived it's useful competitiveness", I don't think so, however I'm sure that's what everyone whose car becomes useless says.
10-26-2003, 12:45 PM
Geo

Quote:

Originally posted by dieselsdad:
I guess that's what I'm getting at with the competitiveness of the first gen 7. Bob is obviously a talented driver, but moved on to the 240 to be more competitive. Can we expect the SCCA to make any changes to allow the cars to be more equal.

Well, that's pretty much the idea of the Performance Compensation Adjustments that have been presented to the membership for comment. Theh idea is to make very limited adjustments to cars that pretty clearly need a weight adjustment.

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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
10-26-2003, 01:01 PM
lateapex911

Quote:

Originally posted by dieselsdad:
...... Is it time we said "the car has outlived it's useful competitiveness"?......

Hey! bite your tongue! Sheesh!

Well George?? What about it?? Am I gonna get that 300 pound weight break I requested?? (JK!)

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited October 26, 2003).]
10-26-2003, 03:41 PM
Geo

Quote:

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Hey! bite your tongue! Sheesh!

Well George?? What about it?? Am I gonna get that 300 pound weight break I requested?? (JK!)

Try a remote control. It seems to work for Ralf and Juan. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
10-27-2003, 10:05 AM
itaracer

Mikey,

The ITA competitiveness issue may be mute if MiDiv approves IT7 for next year. I've been running a 1st. Gen RX7 in ITA this year and my fastest lap time was 1.5 seconds slower than the leading CRX. The '79-'85 is a mature race car and just about every thing that can be done to improve their competitiveness, within the current ITA rules, has been done. Unless there is some competition adjustment made to the ITA rules (doubtful) IT7 looks like the best option for this car. Several Divisions have already recognized this and have IT7 classes.

1st. Gen RX7's remain a fun, dependable and economical racing platform. They are the predominant ITA race car in MiDiv and an excellent entry level car in any division.

Drop me an email if you like.

[email protected]

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Mark Jeffery
ITA #92 '85 RX7
MidDiv - Arkansas Region
10-27-2003, 04:41 PM
whenry

We urged the adoption of the IT7 rules in the SE Div when it became appearant that the newer ie computer cars in ITA were going so far beyond what a well prepped 7 could do. There are now some IT7 cars that seem to run competitive A times but only if the really good CRX's and Stretch are racing in another region. I chased the CRX's for several yrs with a very good RX3(better port design and less weight than 7's) and decided to try other cars and classes. Now with the computer mod rules, I dont see how any rotary has a chance.
Run a 7 to get track time and experience but be realistic and save your $$ for EP.
10-27-2003, 10:17 PM
dieselsdad

I guess I'd be happy to see the MIDiv adopt the IT7 class but I'd rather see them make the adjustments neccessary to keep it from becoming a one or two make class. Why have a rule book that lists 20 or more cars if there are only 2 or 3 that are competitive? I know the club doesn't guarantee the competitiveness of any car but a little more diversity would be nice. To an outsider who wants to get involved with the SCCA it could be difficult to pick your favorite model or marque, build a car to the letter of the rules only to find you can barely keep up with an ITC Civic. This is the type of thing that keeps the SCCA the "Secret Car Club of Ammerica" and precludes outsiders from jumping in with both feet. As screwed up as they may be at least they give me a place to race. I'm thankful for that.
10-28-2003, 12:21 AM
lateapex911

Quote:

Originally posted by dieselsdad:
I guess I'd be happy to see the MIDiv adopt the IT7 class but I'd rather see them make the adjustments neccessary to keep it from becoming a one or two make class. Why have a rule book that lists 20 or more cars if there are only 2 or 3 that are competitive? I know the club doesn't guarantee the competitiveness of any car but a little more diversity would be nice. To an outsider who wants to get involved with the SCCA it could be difficult to pick your favorite model or marque, build a car to the letter of the rules only to find you can barely keep up with an ITC Civic. This is the type of thing that keeps the SCCA the "Secret Car Club of Ammerica" and precludes outsiders from jumping in with both feet. As screwed up as they may be at least they give me a place to race. I'm thankful for that.

Hey! You've done your homework! But have you written to the Comp board and told them that?? You should. Heck, just copy what you just wrote. Make it clear that you are in favor of adjustments.

Although the others here feel that there is no hope, I have reason to disagree.

Just go to the SCCA website, find the listing of the boards, and email away.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
10-29-2003, 08:56 PM
volante

I ran a legal, very sorted RX-7 for three years in Mid-Div,the only way a RX-7 is going to keep up with a crx is to not be legal.Period,trust me I tried.So I got a crx,problem solved,since the switch only Stretch and one Honda(Mitch Johnson--once) has beat me.The Honda is a better (A) car,now, there are a few good Rx-7 drivers out there but the crx is faster at most tracks.
My crx has been sold to a fellow in K.C. so it will still be in Mid-Div.
Yes Spec Miata has called me over to there side--15 instead of 5 people to race seem like alot more fun.
Have fun in ita everyone--I will be the blue Miata pulling up the rear.

Dave V.
10-30-2003, 12:11 AM
ddewhurst

Dave, enjoy the Miata ride. With one of those a guy knows what the issues are lack of prep or lack of driver.

I did the labor day Restricted Regional race at Grattan where there was a double Pro Spec Miata & if ya want to run with the dogs ya better have yer shit together. Can ya say Niki, Chip, Payton & Dewey.

Talked to a Spec Miata driver from Iowa at Blackhawk Farms after Grattan & all he could do is bitch about the fast folks cheating. At the Pro level they tear em down after the Sunday race.

Have Fun http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David
Spec-7 # 14
10-30-2003, 09:40 AM
Greg Gauper

David,

That former prod driver from Iowa just happened to be the 1987 HP national champ!!!

I wonder if the middle of the pack SRF's think the front runners are cheating as well.

It's funny, there used to be a SSC Honda Civic racer from Milwaukee area that flat used to smoke the VW's in Cen-Div. He had to be cheating, nobody can go that fast. Name? P.D. Cunningham. Then there was the NE Division SSGT driver that won three titles in a row and almost one a fourth except he broke a wheel (while leading). Had to be cheating. His name? Boris Said.

And then there was the old 'Spec Miata' class. We used to call it SSC http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Some guy from Ohio dominated a field of other Miatas at the runoffs and won by a ton, his fifth championship. I guess they must have felt that since he cheated so well, he deserved the Presidents Cup. His name? Mike Galati.

Sour Grapes. Nikki is just plain fast!!!!

Is he running ARRC? That will end the cheating talk once and for all.
10-30-2003, 12:59 PM
ddewhurst

***Is he running ARRC? That will end the cheating talk once and for all.***

He don't need to run the ARRC. He won the ARRC last year (with a late night Southern hospitality take away). He won at Topeka a couple weeks ago with all the Big Dogs. At the Pro level they take em apart on Sunday.

Have Fun http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David
10-30-2003, 10:53 PM
volante

Easy boys,I did not try to start a pissing match.I just stated that a rx-7 that passes me on the front straight at Road America might be stretching the rules a bit.I did not start the IT7 class ,they did,becuase a legal rx-7 ain't no match for a good crx.I know that prod driver from Iowa and he ain't no slouch--in Nikki's defence,he IS fast and has earned all the first's he has got this year.A pro car+ a good driver is hard to beat every time.I have been doing this stuff for a little while now,and I am a good driver butI know that Nikki and the boys are out of my league.
One thing about racing is,someone is always going to be cheating.Ain't they?

Dave V.
10-30-2003, 10:56 PM
volante

Oh and by the way,my shit is always together.

D.V.
10-31-2003, 09:19 AM
ddewhurst

Dave, my intent is not to piss anyone off.

***if ya want to run with the dogs ya better have yer shit together.***

My meaning of the words "shit together" is driver & car.

Back to my original words to you Dave, "enjoy the Miata ride".

Have Fun http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David
10-31-2003, 10:34 AM
JIgou

Quote:

Originally posted by volante:
Oh and by the way,my shit is always together.

D.V.

ALWAYS???? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
10-31-2003, 10:38 AM
JIgou

Oh, and last I heard Coello was NOT going to the ARRC.

Justified or not (i'm NOT getting into that conversation), probably a very bitter taste left over from last year helped out with this year's decision.

Jarrod
10-31-2003, 02:04 PM
B Schley

When somebody is faster than us, we always jump on the cheater bandwagon, rather than looking at how we could get faster. The cheating bandwagon is a copout. Having said this, both of the Coellos came out of Go-Karts where they learned to be fast at a young age. They are the poster boys for SCCA speedfreaks/ stars of tomorrow. Talking with Niki at Blackhawk in Oct., he said the biggest problem in Pro Spec Miata is teammates ganging up on guys. He needed Tony to drive with him to help him during the race because guys would gang up. He also said there is a ton of banging and his car was in the body shop every week. dsaaeh e n
10-31-2003, 04:26 PM
gsbaker

Quote:

Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
I wonder if the middle of the pack SRF's think the front runners are cheating as well.

Of course! How else could they be up front? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

Gregg middle-of-the-pack-on-a-good-day Baker
10-31-2003, 05:22 PM
Greg Gauper

Yeah, and I bet that Warren Stillwell character (a.k.a Mr. Mid-Ohio) was the worst cheater of all http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

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