SRFs in Enduros - Thoughts

This past weekend at VIR there was a NASTY wreck in the enduro involving a Spec Racer Ford and an ITB Celica. I only saw the aftermath, but witnesses said the SRF was sitting on the track and the B car T-Boned it.

The drivers were not seriously injured (last I heard), but the SRF driver was apparently taken to the hospital. The SRF itself was a mangled shadow of its former self.

Now, some IT people complain about sharing the track with these cars because they are so fast. That doesn't really bother me all that much, but I've been concerned with how hard they can be to see because they are so low. Often, if there is a car behind you, and an SRF behind it, you have no idea the SRF is there. It just suddenly "appears" next to you in the braking zone, which isn't a good thing.

Now I have a second safety concern to add. After seeing the damage an ITB car did to an SRF, I began thinking about the exact same incident but with an ITS BMW or Mercedes substituted for the 25 year old ITB Toyota. Wow, that would not be pretty at all, and I could easily see it ending in a fatality.

I won't pretend to be an expert on SRFs, but it seems to me that this car was designed to run with other 1500lb (or less) cars with fiberglass skins and no bumpers. I doubt it was designed to run with production cars that are approaching 3000lbs and have crash tested steel bumpers bolted to the front of them.

Just some thoughts. I know several regions don't allow SRFs in enduros, and maybe its time for all regions to consider not doing it. I know it will cost some $$$ in entry fees, but... Well. I won't say it.

What are your thoughts?

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#22 ITC Honda Civic
3rd Place 2004 ARRC
1st Place 2004 ARRC Enduro
www.motorpride.com/Catch22

I wouldn't be concerned about the safety of the SRF driver. The cars are extremely solid. There have been SRF injuries but never a fatality.

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

Scott
I have run with SRF's in a Night enduro before.
It can be a very weird situation.
You just have to be aware that they are there.
Conversely, the SRF drivers have to make sure that they are seen and not assume.
This is one of the many reasons endurance racing is so much fun.
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

As a novice, I really don't care to be on the track with them. I think they have enough of them that they can split them out, I would think. While they blaze through the twisty bits, you can pass them on the straights (S car) and have them right back on you again. They are low, not always easy to see, but I know it is my job to see them.

And, IMHO, SRF guys seem like the most aggressive drivers out there, but, that is just my opinion and doesn't have to bear any relation to reality. I always pointed them by and tried to "get rid of them" but some would come back and then new ones would show up to pass!

R

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning Tow Beast
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
1/2 a 260Z ITS - Zero

this weekend was the first time i actually competed on track with the spec racers. the wreck you spoke of started two cars in front of me and i just barely squeaked by. the biggest problem i had with them is the fact that you can't always see them. speed wise, my car is faster in the straights and similar in the corners. i had some that dive bombed me in certain corners, but i had a feeling they were there because they usually travel in packs.

john costello

Some food for thought, I was also in that race with an ITS car and came through the wreck the first time, before the ITB was involved, then next lap the ITB car added it self to the problem. Glad to hear the SRF guy was OK. Where was the fault of the ITB car for not being more heads up with the yellow flag!

I did qualify better then 13 of the SRF guys and all they do is add a different feel for the race. Most of them are paying attention to what is going on around their car.

I would guess that some drivers should check their mirrors a little more offten if the are constantly being surprised by the SRF cars or ITS cars as well.

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#73 ITS Acura Integra GSR
SCCA ECR

When we've shared the track with SRF's in Texas, the SRF's would all have a fiberglass "antenna" with a neon orange ball at the top to help everyone be able to see them. It helped, but you still had to be paying extra attention.

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Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

Not to be disrespectful here, but the "not being able to see a SRF" is a phony baloney argument.

I drive a GP Scirocco, and have raced with SRF's in the past. Currently I race with Spridgets and Spitfires, which are even smaller than a SRF. If you can't see a SRF coming up on you then you either aren't paying enough attention to what's going on around you or you need to get better rear view mirrors so you can see what's behind you. I recommend the convex Longacre rearview mirrors, it greatly enhances your rearview vision, especially in the blind spots. That, combined with a 4" round convex mirror on the driver's A-pillar will eliminate any blindspots.

The aggressiveness of SRF drivers is no worse than what I experienced with Spec Miatas when I raced ITC. If anything, the SM'ers have gotten more aggressive/careless in the last few years from what I've witnessed as a spectator to SM races (I last raced ITC in 2001).

I think adding the SRF's is a good thing for the enduros. More entries means lower entry fees for all of us. Safety concerns about the SRF's really shouldn't be a factor, those cars are built like tanks and the driver is very well protected.

Just my .02 worth,

Mark C

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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited March 24, 2005).]

Quote:

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Originally posted by racer14itc:
...Safety concerns about the SRF's really shouldn't be a factor, those cars are built like tanks and the driver is very well protected....

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This customer drove his SRF into a stalled SRF at 100+. None of the structural elements are straight, but the cockpit is intact:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Us.../LeftFront.JPG

Don't worry about those guys.

The "antenna" with the orange ball on top reminds me of street drivers doing the same thing in the winters so the ball could be seen over the snow banks.

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

Not to be disrespectful here, but the "not being able to see a SRF" is a phony baloney argument.

I'll disagree. I can see them when my vision is not obscured by another car. No problem there. But keep in mind that these are extremely light (at least a few hundred pounds lighter than any production car on the track with them) momentum cars. They make their speed differently than the cars they are sharing the track with in an IT race. They brake EXTREMELY late and carry very good corner speed. They are actually a good bit slower than the ITS cars on the straights.

So if I'm going down the back straight, and there's an ITB GTI behind me, and a SRF closing behind it, I might not see that SRF (especially if he's drafting the GTI... which he will be). When I'll see it is when it seriously late brakes BOTH of us into the next corner. BAM! Theres a car next to me.
The SRF guys catch alot of flak for "dive bombing." But they aren't dive bombing, thats just how you drive those cars. I'm just suggesting that they might not mix all that well with IT cars.

If you guys say they are tanks... Fine, I'll take your word for it.
But that car didn't come out of the hit from that Celica looking like a tank. It was enough to make several of us think of a BMW thats 400lbs heavier, going 10mph faster... And cringe.

They are not always easy to see, although I have limited experience, for the reasons cited above. They corner really well and can be up on you in no time flat, being obscured by other much larger cars behind you. Next thing you know they are beside you braking. I'll be looking for them though.

I try to let them go by, they have their own thing going with others of their kind and I'm sure don't want to be around an ITS car any more than I want to be around them. But, on the long tracks like VIR you do trade positions with them in ITS cars and can't seem to get rid of them due to the straights which you will tromp them on. Then they get you back through 1-5.

Still seems like there are enough of them to do their own thing, but maybe I really don't have an idea for true counts of SRFs.

R

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning Tow Beast
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
1/2 a 260Z ITS - Zero

this past weekends events at VIR were my 2nd and 3rd complete races, respectively. of the 3 race weekends, 2 with the Fiat x1/9 and now one with the CRX (both ITC cars), i have been exposed to the SRF's for 3 times.

i admit that they can be difficult to spot when they are in your blind spots (and a 1st gen CRX has plenty of those). however, proper use of the mirror's, as well as listening to what's around you, tells you when a lot about what's going on. the thing i've learned about the Spec Wreckers is that they will take care of themselves. and honestly, i don't mind them as much as the Miata's. a Spec Wrecker has never tagged my bumper trying to intimidate the ITC car with the X like a Miata has done several times.

endurance racing involves many classes of cars and many different skill levels of drivers. the important thing to remember is to drive smart. if you drive smart, paying attention to the flag stations, as well as the track ahead and behind you, then you will have a safe and fun race.

having said that, i hope i drove a respectable race for my stint of it (which was cut short thanks to this accident). my codriver, who was in the car until 2 laps after the double dropped, really enjoyed herself and the competetiveness of ITC!

regards,


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hoop
Greensboro, NC
White ITC Honda CRX #4

[This message has been edited by iambhooper (edited March 24, 2005).]

Quote:

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Originally posted by iambhooper:
really enjoyed herself and the competetiveness of ITC!

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We didn't realize there was another female ITC driver out there (we didn't get an entry list). You guys should have come by and said "hi." Renee would have loved to have met a fellow female racer, its a small sorority.
Hell, as many things as we had go wrong this weekend we probably would have put you to work helping us fix something on the #22 car.

For clarity, I'm not proposing that the SRFs are any sort of menace and should be banned from enduros. I also can deal with them easier than many of the wild-assed Spec Miata drivers. That wreck just got me thinking that maybe the mixture of cars wasn't extremely safe.
But since you guys say they are tanks... OK.



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#22 ITC Honda Civic
3rd Place 2004 ARRC
1st Place 2004 ARRC Enduro
www.motorpride.com/Catch22

Quote:

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Originally posted by Catch22:
We didn't realize there was another female ITC driver out there (we didn't get an entry list). Hell, as many things as we had go wrong this weekend we probably would have put you to work helping us fix something on the #22 car.

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i had 2 codrivers, one for the CCPS event and another for the ECR. they both typically drive IT7's, but their cars weren't ready and i invited them to run with me this year. ironically, one of the things we all really enjoyed about the Honda over the Fiat was not having to turn a wrench!

Heather drove the first stint saturday, until lap 18 or so. She was reall racey out there. As for me, it will come with experience.

SRF's are too low and too fast in the corners. Plus there's the weight disparity. The Stewards should be shot for putting them on the track at the same time.

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katman

I'm working on getting another class approved. It would be very well matched to SRF's but would dominate them in the straights. Same type of car and same heights!

Would be nice to see the two on track together.

Personally I would feel safe in an SRF but I would be more worried about myself than other drivers in unibody cars!

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1989 CRX Si
"Budget under cover"

Quote:

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Originally posted by Fleetcare:
I'm working on getting another class approved. It would be very well matched to SRF's but would dominate them in the straights. Same type of car and same heights!

Would be nice to see the two on track together.

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So spill the bean, would ya? Enquiring minds want to know. An SR class, perhaps? Or possibly that "upgraded" SRF using the new motorcycle power plant?

I saw a video of the latter. An SRF with 180+hp would be a ride.

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

i did a 3hr at hallett with SRFs in my itb golf. they do come up on you pretty fast under braking, but thats how they drive.and as someone else mentioned they do travel in packs. im used to running with SM so the SRFs werent that big of a deal until dusk when they didnt have lights. it was a lot of fun and i would do it again.

I've run the 6 hr. Enduro at TWS for the last three years with Miatas and SRFs. True, the Miatas come by in packs and the SRFs come by in clusters. It's true that the Mazdas can be seen easily, but not all of them. However, the SRFs virtually disappear behind another car. At the end of the day, broken Miatas and SRFs litter the infield. They are strong, but only against similarly constucted cars. I've seen a case where an Alfa Romeo drove over the top of one and into the cockpit with a spinning rear tire. The Alfa driver never saw the SRF as he was passing on the outside of the turn. Guaranteed the SRF driver saw the Alfa all too well! My co-driver at the Texas 6 hour T-boned a spinning SRF. Destroyed the SRF, tore my rubber bumper, but the driver was okay. The SRF drivers no longer run an antennae with a ball on their roll bar in Texas. They consider it demeaning! Personally, my feeling is they should be allowed to run only with the fast plastic and winged things. But the host regions might differ in the face of entry numbers.

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Chris Harris
ITC Honda Civic

Chris,

Whenever I'm in one of those things everyone wants me to have flashing lights and a horn.

"Look out! Here he comes!" http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

G

Lights and horns! Not a bad idea! Truly, one of the problems I have with you guys is not the speed or the size...it's both of them. Accidents happen, but I don't want to be a part of them if I can avoid them. Same reason I never drove FV. lol That said, I did used to race FF when I was young and stupid. I also don't like racing with Baby Grands and Legends. My car is smaller than many, but I lose the smaller cars in my mirrors and don't want to step on anyone. I just feel insecure in a flat out turn knowing that a series of rockets like you could be diving under me hoping that they all can make it. It's hell on the driver's suit! That said, the most frightened I've ever been was when a T1 Corvette came out of nowhere and past me on the outside of one of the fastest turns in Texas. I had no idea he was coming around a bunch of cars behind me! Since then, the host region will not allow T1, T2, SP, or AS in the 6 hour enduro. They require DOT tires and want the cars about the same speed. My near miss was not the reason for the change, it was the accidents and near misses caused by the faster closing speeds and size differential. I feel the reason for including the SRF's is due to the multitude of them racing out of Houston and Texas regions. Money (entrants) talk! It's no offense to the drivers or the cars. Many people feel that my little Honda is in the way of the faster cars, but the question was about Spec Ford Racers with IT cars.

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Chris Harris
ITC Honda Civic