OT - '99+ Miatas Approved for SM, [i][b]effective 3/1/05!![i

Life just got more difficult for Spec Miata drivers. Bet we see a whole bunch more in Improved Touring! Note that the CRB approved this only a few weeks after requesting membership input!!!


http://www.scca.com/News/News.asp?Ref=238

SCCA Board Approves Late Model Miatas for Spec Miata Class
By Eric Prill

Miatas from 1999 and newer are now eligible to run in the Spec Miata class. (Mark Weber Photo)

TOPEKA, Kan. (February 22, 2005) – Sports Car Club of America announced today that its Club Racing Board approved the inclusion of 1999 and newer Mazda Miatas into its SCCA Club Racing Spec Miata class, effective March 1, 2005.

The approval adds the newer body-style Mazda Miatas into the class that previously included only the original body style (1990-1997) Miata, but with two different engine displacements (1.6L and 1.8L).

Like the first-generation car, Mazdaspeed has developed a suspension kit for the newer cars, including shocks, springs and sway bars. As with the two different engines in the first-generation Miata, air restriction and weight will be utilized to achieve parity between the cars. Miatas of years 1999-2005 must weight 2500 lbs with a 41 mm air restrictor installed.

The inclusion follows the move by SCCA’s Mazdaspeed Miata Cup Presented by Hankook pro series, which allowed the cars in for its 2005 season.

The Club Racing Spec Miata class will begin National competition in 2006, with the top drivers competing at the SCCA Runoffs® for the category’s first-ever National Championship.

Note: The Technical Bulletin regarding the newer Miatas’ introduction can be found at www.scca.com in the “SCCA Garage” section, or by clicking the link below. The bulletin will also appear in the April edition of FasTrack.

Yes, I believe it did. I run in SSM, but frankly, I think the way this happened and how quickly is an absolute crock of sh*t.

The guys like Jim Daniels, Sunbelt, and the guys selling $450 exhaust systems must be happy. Of course, these are the guys who are saying that the SCCA has speced the newer cars to be underdogs and that you won't need a newer car to be competitive. Riiigghht.

All I can say is thank goodness for SSM. I think this decision by the SCCA has ensured that SSM will remain a regional class after 2005. I think you'll see a lot of guys shift to either ITA or SSM in response.

Anybody who thought that SM going Nat'l wouldn't involve changes like this must be low on oxygen.

While I'm an SSM guy, I don't see the new cars as a threat to the older 1.6 and 1.8 cars. 'Corpulent' and 'wheezing' comes to mind...the 99+'s will be at 2500lbs. and be sucking thru a 41mm restrictor. Sounds underdogish to me.

I still don't 'get' how this is a bad thing. But then...I'm really an SRF guy at heart.

I had a feeling things would head this way regardless of National class status. When SM started heading in the direction of open intakes and exhausts, I jumped with both feet into SSM.

I think National class designation for '06 has only hastened the inclusion of the newer cars.

As for the competitiveness of the new cars, we'll have to see. I'm sure we'll see some this season. It will probably take them a while to sort it out, but my hunch is they will be the dominant car, even without an adjustment to the weight or restrictor. I have heard that the specs will allow them to run either the 5- or 6-speed transmission models, and models with different rear-end ratios.

The inclusion of the newer cars was inevitable and not necessarily a bad thing. I don't like the way it was done. I think the SCCA made a bad decision to include the newer cars with less than a month's notice, and without running them in Pro for a year to establish the baseline spec to ensure the competitiveness of all cars.

Geezus...from reading the posts over at SpecMiata.com you'd think they added the New Beetle or something.

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Gregg Ginsberg
http://www.ginsberg.org
'89 CRX Si -- MARRS ITA #72
WDCR-SCCA Rookie of the Year 2003

I read portions of that New Beetle thread.

Good analogy.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
I think the proper Simpson's quote would be from Nelson Muntz is "HA HA"

I guess that everything is not as perfect in Spec Miata land as the residents thereof want us all to think.

Will there be a mass exodus "back" to IT?
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

Excuse me for asking.... but why is it such a big deal to allow Miata's in spec MIATA??

[This message has been edited by Jon Nelson (edited February 23, 2005).]

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Originally posted by Gregg:
Geezus...from reading the posts over at SpecMiata.com you'd think they added the New Beetle or something.

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Just remember that Spec Miata IS THE SALVATION OF SCCA (at least according to the Spec Miata class reps locally) and by such offensive classification, the horde of Wreck Me Otters to go play with NASA to "punish" SCCA for their actions (which wouldn't hurt my feelings too much considering the SM attitude towards all other race classes other than themselves).

Given the weight and restrictions, the later model Miatas sound as if they'll be competitive but not necessarily immediate class winners. However nothing is written in stone and it's unlikely that SCCA is attempting to alienate the existing SM class but rather is attempting to include the newer cars which is very unlike the SCCA of old.

I'm not sure that I'm looking forward to an influx of ITA Miatas - not that I don't welcome the added participation but that it'll just make my car all the slower http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif I haven't had a chance to test Miata brake pads yet - hopefully they're as good as (if not better than) RX7 brake pads http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

It amazes me the lack of class some of you people have.

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Originally posted by apr67:
It amazes me the lack of class some of you people have.

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HA!!! Just wait until the "Motorsport Messiah of Miami" weighs in on this issue, either here or at SpecPiñata.com. He's promised a run for the SCCA BOD on previous crusades -

"posted 02-03-2005 03:32PM
As a result I am going to run for the BoD and although I'm pretty sure they'll kick me out if I win, I've been told by enough people to shit or get off the pot."


but this is a way-better windmill for him. That should bring some real 'lack' to this class.

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited February 23, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited February 23, 2005).]

My point is, don't put down another class. We are all looking for the same thing. As much racing fun as we can get, for as little racing funds as we can spend.

Besides, if you really want to rip on people, those GT guys are just big woosies.


[This message has been edited by apr67 (edited February 23, 2005).]

John, you are right.

Matt is a real Pain in the A##.

Quote:

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Originally posted by apr67:
My point is, don't put down another class. We are all looking for the same thing. As much racing fun as we can get, for as little racing funds as we can spend.

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I couldn't agree with that statement any more but when a class comes on-board, claiming to be the salvation of a club that didn't need saving, then I start to wonder about their motivation. When the same class starts dictating what the club MUST do in order to accomodate them, it becomes clear that the intention is to force out the "lesser and unimportant classes such as Production, Wings, GT, IT and every other class that needs to go in order to accomodate their cars. Since the club is about racing for EVERYONE, there is no good nor simple solution but banishing every car that isn't Spec Miata is downright foolhardy and stupid. Either that or they can start the MCCA (Miata Car Club of America) and let them crash their cars to wreckless abandon.

We all heard this when Spec Wrecker (RX7) was formulated but they didn't dictate their demands - rather they stated that the class would grow to epic proportions. While Spec Wrecker did grow, it was a short burst and their numbers have diminished to the point where they no longer warrant their own race group in the DC region.

I know at the very least SCCA did testing with Dave Roush running different restrictors to see the effect on lap times so that they could place the newer cars fairly. IIRC, they were trying to start the newer cars out slower than current.

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Jeremy Lucas
Team Honda Research
Kumho - Cobalt - Comptech

Quote:

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Originally posted by mgyip:
I couldn't agree with that statement any more but when a class comes on-board, claiming to be the salvation of a club that didn't need saving, then I start to wonder about their motivation. When the same class starts dictating what the club MUST do in order to accomodate them, it becomes clear that the intention is to force out the "lesser and unimportant classes such as Production, Wings, GT, IT and every other class that needs to go in order to accomodate their cars. Since the club is about racing for EVERYONE, there is no good nor simple solution but banishing every car that isn't Spec Miata is downright foolhardy and stupid. Either that or they can start the MCCA (Miata Car Club of America) and let them crash their cars to wreckless abandon.

We all heard this when Spec Wrecker (RX7) was formulated but they didn't dictate their demands - rather they stated that the class would grow to epic proportions. While Spec Wrecker did grow, it was a short burst and their numbers have diminished to the point where they no longer warrant their own race group in the DC region.

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How does a class claim anything?

Anyway, if "they" make demands, and "the club" doesn't want to accept them, then "they" can go wherever they want. No harm, no foul.
What's the big deal?

I'm sure that if there were 50 GT-2 cars at every race, the GT-2 racers would be making the same "demands", etc.

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Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

Quote:

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Originally posted by jlucas:
I know at the very least SCCA did testing with Dave Roush running different restrictors to see the effect on lap times so that they could place the newer cars fairly. IIRC, they were trying to start the newer cars out slower than current.

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At how many tracks?



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Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

Quote:

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Originally posted by oanglade:

How does a class claim anything?

Anyway, if "they" make demands, and "the club" doesn't want to accept them, then "they" can go wherever they want. No harm, no foul.
What's the big deal?

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In the DC Region, SM is busy telling the BOD that 1) it wants greater represenation on the Competition Commitee b/c they bring so many cars (currently each class has a representative that sits on a Competition Commitee); 2) the DC Region MUST make room for as many SMs as may register for an event at the cost of turning away competitors in other classes.

One SM pilot went so far as to tell me that if the DC Region didn't meet their "demands" that they'd pack up, race with NASA, and our pathetic little club (SCCA) would "dry up and go bankrupt". IMHO that's pretty bold talk for anyone, let alone a race class that is supposed to be part of the "whole". SM certainly has sparked a huge re-interest in SCCA but my concern is "at what cost".

Quote:

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Originally posted by oanglade:
At how many tracks?

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Not sure if anywhere besides MidOhio.



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Jeremy Lucas
Team Honda Research
Kumho - Cobalt - Comptech

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I still don't 'get' how this is a bad thing. But then...I'm really an SRF guy at heart.</font>

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John, I have no problem with the "what" happened. I think it's an OK thing and everyone knew it was inevitable. Plus, I think the performance numbers will work out, and this is coming from someone who's currently building one of the little M1 bastards (a '94).

It's the "how" I have a big problem with. Ram-rodded through, a couple of months after request for member feedback? This, after we've been screaming for YEARS for attention to re-org IT? It just kinda feels like we got "violated", like the prom date that trusted the boyfriend...I really thought things were going to be different.

Dudn't matter. We'll get over it.

Quote:

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Originally posted by mgyip:
In the DC Region, SM is busy telling the BOD that ...

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SM is a racing class. It can't tell anyone anything, no more than it can grow wings and fly.

What you may have is a few jerkoff drivers. And I am sure no other classes have the same.

This kind of narrow minded thinking is where racism, and most of the other ism's come from.

This is the one troubling aspect of the club...

On one hand I am really bouyed by the thought that they did something proactive, and actually went out and tested! Wow!

And getting current model cars in the mix isn't a terrible thing either.

On the other hand, I do worry about the methods and the timing of it all. This isn't the first time things like this have been "fastracked" so to speak.

I also wonder when the SM fad will wane...
It is a great class, BUT...the car counts are SO high (here in the NE, we are in danger of having too many to fit on the track at Lime Rock..not there quite yet, but....), that I wonder when the guy who always finishes 30th or 35th is going to get fed up. I suspect we might see a leveling off, but who knows!

One thing is for sure, it should make a great race at the Runoffs in 06.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Quote:

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Originally posted by apr67:
It amazes me the lack of class some of you people have.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by apr67:
My point is, don't put down another class. We are all looking for the same thing. As much racing fun as we can get, for as little racing funds as we can spend.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by apr67:
It amazes me the lack of class some of you people have.

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Quote:

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John, you are right.

Matt is a real Pain in the A##.

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Can you say 'hypocrit'?

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

Quote:

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Originally posted by apr67:
It amazes me the lack of class some of you people have.

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Class? You want class? There was nothing on the application for this site about class.
Obviously if you are looking for class you are in the wrong place. Perhaps this place is more upscale and classy www.rennlist.com. Make sure you take the Grey Poupon with you.

Since it says right on the front door of this site "Improved Touring" why are we talking about spec miata? Isn't there a site just for spec miata.

I am like a teacher during the summer break.
NO CLASS!!! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
cheers
dave parker
wdcr ITC#97

Quote:

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Originally posted by apr67:
What you may have is a few jerkoff drivers.

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Agreed but they're well-heeled and extremely vocal jerkoffs which exascerbates the problem.

I don't dislike SMs as a whole - Given the money, I'd probably race one myself. While SM has revitalized SCCA and has provided visibility to the Club that it hasn't had for decades. My fear is that with the swelling of SM ranks and the pressures that it puts on the Club (both real and perceived) could result in a detriment to the Club in the long run.

Right now I'm curious to hear how other regions are handling the influx of SM and SSM entrants. The DC Region race classes (except for wings and things) are quite full. With even a 5% increase in SM entrants, we're faced with the possibility of turning away entrants (and their lovely entry fee money). While we don't want to turn away anyone, SCCA Club Races do have an entrant limit and perhaps it's time that we simply enforce it - at the same time this flies in the face of "Everyone gets to race". Sigh...

***While SM has revitalized SCCA and has provided visibility to the Club that it hasn't had for decades.***

"While SM has revitalized SCCA"

Do you have a serious bone in your body ?

David Dewhurst
CenDiv

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Originally posted by GregAmy:
[B]It's the "how" I have a big problem with. Ram-rodded through, a couple of months after request for member feedback? This, after we've been screaming for YEARS for attention to re-org IT? It just kinda feels like we got "violated", like the prom date that trusted the boyfriend...I really thought things were going to be different.
B]

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I think it's a little misleading to try and equate those two very different things.

Cars get dropped into classes all the time. Adding the 99+ cars to SM has been on the front discussion burners for over a year, there was adequate notice in FasTrack, and a call for member input. Anybody who was paying attention knew it was coming, and it doesn't suprize/shock/scandalize/me.

Adding a newer model of a Spec-class car, that has been heavily handicapped with weight and intake, is a very stretched comparison with the work necessary to 're-org' IT.

Apples and giraffes, dude.

Quote:

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Originally posted by ddewhurst:
***While SM has revitalized SCCA and has provided visibility to the Club that it hasn't had for decades.***

"While SM has revitalized SCCA"

Do you have a serious bone in your body ?

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Locally, SM tells us that it's our salvation. Personally I think it's bringing in new blood which is a good thing and it certainly has swelled the ranks of Club Racing but at a yet undertermined cost. So yes, I would say that I have a serious bone in my body. I get much more serious when SM tells me that I should stay home so they can run more SMs.

Quote:

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Originally posted by mgyip:
Agreed but they're well-heeled and extremely vocal jerkoffs which exascerbates the problem.

I don't dislike SMs as a whole - Given the money, I'd probably race one myself. While SM has revitalized SCCA and has provided visibility to the Club that it hasn't had for decades. My fear is that with the swelling of SM ranks and the pressures that it puts on the Club (both real and perceived) could result in a detriment to the Club in the long run.

Right now I'm curious to hear how other regions are handling the influx of SM and SSM entrants. The DC Region race classes (except for wings and things) are quite full. With even a 5% increase in SM entrants, we're faced with the possibility of turning away entrants (and their lovely entry fee money). While we don't want to turn away anyone, SCCA Club Races do have an entrant limit and perhaps it's time that we simply enforce it - at the same time this flies in the face of "Everyone gets to race". Sigh...

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My thoughts on this are simple:

Each Region has to take a long hard look at run-groups. They need to combine where they can in order to maximize entries. Wings and Things need to be put under a microscpoe. Combine where safe but EVERY CLASS has to know that it will get shuffled should subscription drop - business is business.

When everything is maximized, then you have to get creative. The bottom X amount of qualifiers run in a consolation race in a less subscribed run group for no points...whatever your solution may be, try and get everyone on the track.

Another interesting thing to do for SM is to introduce SSM in your Region should it not be there already. It allows more flexibility in terms of shuffling cars amongst the days groups. We have about a 50-50 split here in NER and should the TOTAL of the 2 groups get too large, they can be split.

The whole NASA threat is chicken-crap. If your Region is doing what is best for each class WHILE looking at the economics and fun-factor from the proverbial 10,000 foot view, it will all work out.

AB

EDIT: PLEASE everyone sign there name...it makes me wonder.
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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[This message has been edited by Andy Bettencourt (edited February 24, 2005).]

Excuse me for being ignorant, or out of the loop, but, what is SSM? I'm still trying to get used to SMT. Seems like too much alphabet soup. That would mean that there are 4 classes that Miatas can run in, SM, SMT, ITA, and SSM. Geez I'm confused, its starting to look like the class structure for Solo II.
--Bill

One other question. With so many class options for Miatas, when does spec, stop being spec?
--Bill

Quote:

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Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:

Another interesting thing to do for SM is to introduce SSM in your Region should it not be there already. It allows more flexibility in terms of shuffling cars amongst the days groups. We have about a 50-50 split here in NER and should the TOTAL of the 2 groups get too large, they can be split.

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The DC Region is the unfortunate benefactor of SSM - the biggest concern here is that the well-heeled SM pilots (of which we have many) fully intend on running BOTH SM and SSM!! While other regions may find this as a benefit, this is an added curse for us as we now have TWO CLASSES that will potentially fill to capacity.

I found the NASA threat rather amusing since IMHO NASA is all about "getting the money" and nothing about "being safe".

Matthew - ITA Drivers Representative, DC Region

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Originally posted by B Schley:
Excuse me for being ignorant, or out of the loop, but, what is SSM? I'm still trying to get used to SMT. Seems like too much alphabet soup. That would mean that there are 4 classes that Miatas can run in, SM, SMT, ITA, and SSM. Geez I'm confused, its starting to look like the class structure for Solo II.
--Bill

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You forgot ITS (the 1.8's). That's 5 classes available to Miatas.

MC



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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

And SSB. So, 6 classes.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

Holy Spec Me Otters Batman, 6 classes,Wow! Maybe its time to change the name to SMCCA, Spec Miata Car Club of America. My original question still remains, what is SSM, spec spec miata?

--Bill

P.S. Planet Six Bill- I have stored up a bunch of boxes of Scott towels for you so you can dry your hands at Blackhawk. Because of this added expense to my race budget, I am now going from Hoosiers to the more economical Kumhos. See you at the Farm http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif

SSM is a class born in the NeDiv when the National ruleset came out. It is more conservative and more stable.

Go to the Competition corner of the NER site (www.ner.org), then to Club Racing and click on Miata rules..

If you have too many drivers in your SM/SSM gouping and some of those are the same drivers, then the Region shouldn't allow the duplicates until everyone else is accomodated. Everyone should get a chance to race ONCE before ANYONE gets a chance to race TWICE in one day.

AB



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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

Quote:

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Originally posted by GregAmy:
It just kinda feels like we got "violated"...

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Was it good for you too, Greg?

G

Don't worry about all the classes. Half of them are Regional only. SSM doesn't exist everywhere, neither does SMT. Spec Miata is one class in the rulebook...each Region is free to do what they want to accomodate their drivers needs.

ITA and ITS have always had Miata's in them. CRX's are in 3 IT classes...who cares?

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

Quote:

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Originally posted by lateapex911:
BUT...the car counts are SO high...that I wonder when the guy who always finishes 30th or 35th is going to get fed up.

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That's why I think my next move will be to build an "A" Sports Racer, or maybe some SPO monstrosity so bizzare that I end up in my own class. Hey, I could finish first and last! I could dominate the podium! My driving certainly won't get me there. Where's that supercharger?

This could start a trend. It lends a whole new meaning to "IT": Improved Turbine.

http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

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Originally posted by gsbaker:
That's why I think my next move will be to build an "A" Sports Racer...

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You'll have to 'buy', rather than 'build'. The GCR specifies a 'freshness date' for ASR's, and you're about 20 years too late to build one.