New to this site.
What class would a Porsche 944 run in IT ? and is there many enduro's where it can compete ?
Thanks for all replys
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New to this site.
What class would a Porsche 944 run in IT ? and is there many enduro's where it can compete ?
Thanks for all replys
The 944 is in ITS, and frankly it is an uphill battle for the car. At the spec weight, many think the 944S has a much better chance in the same class.
Chris Camadella, and ITAC member who posts here on occassion, has a nicely prepped 944 and can shed a lot more light.
There are enduros to run in, the NESSCA series has enduros of 1 to 3 hours (I think) and there are others of 6, 12, and 13 hour duration.
------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
I just don't know where you guys get this stuff about the 944, but aside from my personal experience running with them, Chris C. has told me that he never had a problem winning an ITS race with a 944...Quote:
Originally posted by lateapex911:
The 944 is in ITS, and frankly it is an uphill battle for the car. At the spec weight, many think the 944S has a much better chance in the same class.
Last weekend I ran against two of them, along with a well-prepped 240SX, and the 944s had NO PROBLEM keeping pace with the 240Z, winning one race, and nearly winning the second, before breaking a transmission...
The key doesn't appear to be power, because I was able to drag race with all of these cars in the straights, the edge going to the 240Z... However, in the twisty bits, and under braking, the 944 has a definate advantage...
Those of you having trouble getting your to perform may want to spend more time getting the handling right, because that appears to be where the gains make the most difference... They have to be driven well, but they definately don't appear to be the underdog that everyone seems to want them to be...
------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg
Maybe we can get Chris to Lime Rock for the NARCCs or even better, to the ARRCs...
I mention Lime Rock as it seems to be a "momentum" track that rewards good handling...
------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Look at the HP of the 944 and BMW. And there is only one engine builder in the country that seems to be able to hit that max HP for a 944. (and that's not even taking into consideration how much money it takes to get there!!) Come to the Northeast in a 944 and see how they would get whooped up on......... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gifQuote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
I just don't know where you guys get this stuff about the 944, but aside from my personal experience running with them, Chris C. has told me that he never had a problem winning an ITS race with a 944...
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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi
Just look at the power to weight of the 944S vs the 944. Same bloody chassis. Same bloody class. Hugely different power to weight. HUGE. Do the math and tell me I'm wrong. That is where they are getting that.Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
I just don't know where you guys get this stuff about the 944
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Sorry guys... but I'm just not convinced... I don't really care what kind of wt/pwr we can calculate... the REALLY fast 944 up here has a stock motor with 175,000 miles on it and it's STILL just as fast down the straights as a VERY well prepped 240Z... Even on a longer course, the 944s up here seem to hold their own, and certainly make up for lost time by out-braking and out-handling the 240Zs...Quote:
Originally posted by Geo:
Just look at the power to weight of the 944S vs the 944. Same bloody chassis. Same bloody class. Hugely different power to weight. HUGE. Do the math and tell me I'm wrong. That is where they are getting that.
Of course, one of the cars I'm referring to is driven/engineered by Greg Fordahl, who has a little experience with Porsches.
Just telling you what I've experienced... Your mileage may vary...
------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg
[This message has been edited by Banzai240 (edited August 16, 2004).]
Bingo! Therein lies the issue with trying to provide a national set of rules when you have no national standard against which to compare it. Without some type of "standard" - be it performance or technical - it is impossible to expect any kind of national 'parity.'Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Just telling you what I've experienced... Your mileage may vary...</font>
Darin sees a Porsche 944 doing well in Oregon while Chris gets his 944 butt handed to him by RX-7s. The boys in Virginia don't understand the hoopla over RX-7s while they're getting beat by a BMW. George in Texas doesn't understand the problem with BMWs while he's getting his butt handed to him by Datsuns (and Greg is getting beat by all of them). And so forth until we get to a big circle.
Bottom line, unless you provide a national one-stop event where they can all be compared, or are willing to go with some kind of technical standard (e.g., power to weight), there's just no way that anybody will ever be satisfied. Should we be looking at implementing regional PCAs?
It's a thankless job, so don't expect any, and don't get mad when you don't get it...
Dave -
Abandoning the Prod car world ? I can't offer words of wisdom on 944's re: sprint racing, but I have strong (and unpopular, among 944-philes) opinions re: 944's and enduros - email me at
eng1(at)whec.com
Fuel for the fire...
NONE of the on-track comparisons are valid without confirmation that the sample cars in question are even LEGAL.
There was a great duel at CMP yesterday between an RX7, a Bimmer, and a 240SX. Another RX would have been involved if he hadn't spun but at the end of the day, we have NO idea what the ports in the RX's looked like, what cam the Nissan was running, or whether the BMW had the right gearbox ratios...
We have - as a group - got to stop doing this kind of comparison or, worse yet, allowing our "understanding" of what is fast and what isn't be colored by what we each see at our respective tracks each weekend.
K
Darin! You have two cars with the exact same bloody chassis in a single class and one is carrying 2lbs/hp more than the other and you just say "I don't care."Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
Sorry guys... but I'm just not convinced... I don't really care what kind of wt/pwr we can calculate...
Sorry bud, I didn't start this one. You did.
The facts are the facts. Run the numbers. Does it make any bloody sense to you to have two cars with the same chassis at two different power to weight ratios in the same class? Does that really make sense to you? If so, why?
Keep in mind I'm making zero argument about how either car performs.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Kirk, this whole thing started with Jake mentioning the 944S would be a better car for the class than the 944. The facts are that the 944 and 944S have the same chassis and two different power to weight ratios.Quote:
Originally posted by Knestis:
Fuel for the fire...
NONE of the on-track comparisons are valid without confirmation that the sample cars in question are even LEGAL.
On track performance is only an issue as a result of the difference in power to weight ratio.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
George... I'm not even talking about the 944S here... We all know that it is going to be a really FAST ITS car... I'm talking specifically about the 944 and the perception that it is NOT an ITS contender...Quote:
Originally posted by Geo:
Darin! You have two cars with the exact same bloody chassis in a single class and one is carrying 2lbs/hp more than the other and you just say "I don't care."
When I say "I don't care" about the wt/pwr we can calculate concerning this car... I say that because of the facts that you bring up yourself... You've mentioned before that the 944 has the same stock specs as the ITA 240SX, and have wanted to move the 944 to ITA... BUT, the 944, even with the aformentioned specs, is a heck of a lot 'Bloody' faster than the ITA 240SX, even at it's ITS weight... How can this be if it's so underpowered?
All I'm getting at is that this is one of those cases where the sum of the pieces may not add up to the whole picture... at least not on the surface... There is obviously something there that isn't being considered, because the 944, and more than ONE example of it, has shown out here to be quite capable in ITS...
As for the "they may not be legal" talk... You are right... they may not be... But neither might be the cars they are beating... How can you ever really know for sure, over such a large sample of cars...? The best we can do is use the information we have available... The information I have is that these cars were both VERY legal, even to the point of being underdeveloped...
If you remove the BMW and the 944S from the ITS picture, you would have about 4 or 5 cars that could be front runners in the class (240Z, RX-7, 944, Integra, and yes, the 240SX...), with a whole pack of cars very near this group...
That's what I'm seeing, anyhow... Based both on "speculative" calculations, AS WELL AS on-track performance...
By the way, for Kirk's benefit... the finishing results for this group of ITS cars (240Z, 944, RX-7, 240SX) have shown the same level of competitiveness on three disctintly different varieties of tracks around here... PIR, PR, and Bremerton... I'm sure you are familiar with at least the first two of these, and the third was shown on a video in another post recently on this site...
This is why the ITAC is made up of people from across the Nation... whatever I might come up with may likely be countered with info from the South, the Northeast, the Southeast, Central, etc... The results are almost always the balance of these opinions, and I think that most here would agree that this is about the best we are going to get, and that it's actually a good way to go about things...
So, have some comfort George in knowing that I am only offering you MY opinion of this matter... If there are 8 others against me, then I will logically conceed the point to them and will happily support the direction... I'm just telling you that, from my point of view, the 944 is definately, in the current climate of ITS (and ignoring the existance of the BMW), a GOOD ITS car...
------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg
[This message has been edited by Banzai240 (edited August 16, 2004).]
Hmmm, small world. Me thinks Darin and I were at the same race a couple weeks ago. I was reading through this thread and noticed the picture in your sig. I'm thinking this you:Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
Last weekend I ran against two of them, along with a well-prepped 240SX, and the 944s had NO PROBLEM keeping pace with the 240Z, winning one race, and nearly winning the second, before breaking a transmission...
http://waynef.smugmug.com/gallery/179897
After my race I went track-side to play with my new digital camera... apparently your group was running. While I don't know much about the ITS cars, I will say that the 240z and the 944 in this particular race were at the front, and very evenly matched.
Wayne
Hey George,
Try this one on for size.
ITS VW Golf GTI 2.0 16v 2220#/135hp(stock value) = 16.44
ITS VW Corrado SLC 2.8 12v VR6 2680#/178hp = 15.06
ITS VW Jetta GLI 2.0 16v 2530#/135hp = 18.74
All of these cars a A2 chassis VWs, in the case of the Golf and the Jetta, they're the exact same power plant / drive line.
You talk about a difference of 2#/hp for the 944 and 944S, how about almost a 4#/hp difference for the Corrado and the Jetta? Same chassis, same class. Or a difference of over 2#/hp between the Golf and the Jetta. Same chassis, same motor, same trans, same class. Things that make you go Hmmm....
I'll throw some more into the mix, just for fun.
ITA VW Golf 1.8 16v 2220#/123hp = 18.05
This is also an A2 chassis, the same as the above listed ITS cars. Would seem to indicate that the 2.0 16v cars would fit better in ITA than ITS, maybe even drop some weight on the Jetta when you move it!
But Andy's gonna say that this was done by somebody else, and I should just let it die!
------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
OK Darin. Crossed signals here. I read Jake saying the 944 has an uphill struggle and the 944S would be a better solution. You responded (without the subsequent clarity) that you didn't understand why people are saying that. Follow my point of confusion? I saw it as a comparison and you saw it as a single model. I'll stop the discussion now that I see where you are coming from.Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
George... I'm not even talking about the 944S here...
OK, I'll agree that once you pull the E36, E46, and 944S out of the equation, ITS looks a whole lot better and certainly much more reasonable.Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
All I'm getting at is that this is one of those cases where the sum of the pieces may not add up to the whole picture... at least not on the surface... There is obviously something there that isn't being considered, because the 944, and more than ONE example of it, has shown out here to be quite capable in ITS...
<snip>
If you remove the BMW and the 944S from the ITS picture, you would have about 4 or 5 cars that could be front runners in the class (240Z, RX-7, 944, Integra, and yes, the 240SX...), with a whole pack of cars very near this group...
<snip>
I'm just telling you that, from my point of view, the 944 is definately, in the current climate of ITS (and ignoring the existance of the BMW), a GOOD ITS car...
The E46 and 944S simply increase the "problems" in ITS and the 944S further makes it look silly that the same chassis (front to back, top to bottom) has two different power to weight ratios in the same class depending upon the engine in the chassis.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
[This message has been edited by Geo (edited August 16, 2004).]
There currently is no legal recourse to change any of this. So, nothing is going to happen in the very short-term future. What happens longer-term will take time to shake out. The ITAC is trying to take a big-picture look at IT, but in between other issues that come up, this takes some time. And for sure whatever comes of that (whatever that may or may not be) we will want to make sure we don't make things worse, so there is no rush to just to something. You may not like the answer, but that's the way it is.Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
But Andy's gonna say that this was done by somebody else, and I should just let it die!
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
George,Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">There currently is no legal recourse to change any of this.</font>
Does that mean that the weight corrections that were done this year weren't legal? And since when is re-classifying a car illegal?
And yeah, I agree that it does look silly when multiple vehicles w/ the same chassis (and sometimes the same engine/drivetrain/suspension), in the same class, w/ different pwr/wt ratios, just because the body work is different.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
Ahhh, once again you are wrong! http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gifQuote:
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
ITS VW Golf GTI 2.0 16v 2220#/135hp(stock value) = 16.44
ITS VW Jetta GLI 2.0 16v 2530#/135hp = 18.74
But Andy's gonna say that this was done by somebody else, and I should just let it die!
When we looked at the Neon and SE-R for moves to ITA, these 16V cars were on my list for a reclass as well. Look for more recommendations for 2300-2500lb cars with 130-140 hp to be 'fixed'. At least that is our hope if we can get this first batch through.
While we didn't class them and can't offer reasons why (which is what you usually want from us), we can identify issues and try and fix them.
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
Ok Andy, then explain why one is worthy of fixing, and the other is not? In one case, you take the "hey, it wasn't us, let it die" position, and in another, you take the "hey, that's already on our list to fix" position.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
I sense another New Beetle thread coming....lock this one quick, QUICK!
No, don't worry... I'm going to end my part of this right now...Quote:
Originally posted by JeffYoung:
I sense another New Beetle thread coming....lock this one quick, QUICK!
George... You are right... mixed signals, I should be clearer next time... we agree on everything else...
Bill... Give us a break... None of the reclassifications that require a weight change or not have been officially approved... That requires a BoD ruling, which doesn't come for two more weeks... The CRB and BoD don't necessarily agree with "My" take on the reclassification w/ weight adjustments, so that is a battle we haven't tried to fight much yet, pending the outcome of PCAs... If PCAs happen, a fight won't be needed... If they don't, then that is the road the ITAC is going to take to get some of these changes done...
Otherwise, all of the cars that are being bickered about here are going to be taken into consideration over the next several months as part of a Global IT analysis and potential reshuffling... again pending PCA approval...
For goodness sakes... give us a chance to get the work we've already started finished before you start ripping us for work we haven't even had a chance to begin yet...
That's it... I'll leave the rest of this thread to those who feel like continuing...
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg
You'll have to refresh my memory on this. I don't remember there being any weight changes this year. I could be wrong I guess.Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Does that mean that the weight corrections that were done this year weren't legal?
Proposed reclassifications don't count.
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Does that mean I can ignore the CRX??Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
...... I'm just telling you that, from my point of view, the 944 is definately, in the current climate of ITS (and ignoring the existance of the BMW), a GOOD ITS car...
I didn't think so...nor can Mr Kicak ignore a well prepped and driven E36 putting 217 or more down at the wheels....
Tough to ignore cars doing some whoop ass on you....
(point being that the class is defined by the leading edge.....)
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
No... the point being that we are trying to put tools in place to rectify a few outliers that have created a situation where the remaining cars in the sample can't possibly stack up... The point also being that it's simpler and a more prudent approach to fixing the problem to adjust those outliers to correct the problem, rather than adjust everything else around it...Quote:
Originally posted by lateapex911:
(point being that the class is defined by the leading edge.....)
You guys need to start thinking into the future a bit more, and stop dwelling on how things have been in the past... We've shown that changes are being worked on. YOu need to give us some time to put those changes in motion... We do envision that a majority of those involved in IT will feel it's a better place once some of these adjustments are in place. Give us some time to make it happen. (Also wouldn't hurt to contact your local Area Director and voice your support for the changes that have been proposed... preferrably BEFORE they get together to vote on them in two weeks... If you've already done it... do it again... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif )
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg
Well Darin, in my letters to you I have stressed many times that 90% of the issues in IT lie with 10% of the cars...the "outliers" as it were. So I am well aware of the best means to resolve issues and create more parity.
So, YES.....the simple answer to Mr Kicak is that the 944 is not a car that can be expected to run at the leading adge of ITS, and therefore he needs to decide if it is a "good" car for him or not. (Forewarned is forearmed)
If he is VERY lucky, the world of ITS will evolve and change in the future, and his car might have the leading edge brought back to him, but right now, the answer remains, that the car is not a leading edge car. That's not thinking in the past, as far as any of us know, that's the way it is right now.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Quote:
Originally posted by Geo:
You'll have to refresh my memory on this. I don't remember there being any weight changes this year. I could be wrong I guess.
Proposed reclassifications don't count.
George,
I'll have to dig and see exactly which FasTrack it was in, but the weight on the ITS VR6 Golf and Jetta were both 'corrected'. Supposedly, the GTI was done w/in the 1 year of classification window, but the Jetta had been listed at least since the '02 GCR.
/edit/ And I don't know what you mean about proposed reclassifications. Right now, I don't believe there's a reclassification request on the table for any of those cars. Besides, you're the one that said there was no legal way to correct the problem. I was simply pointing out that you were wrong.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
[This message has been edited by Bill Miller (edited August 17, 2004).]
No wonder you guys get irritable: you're up at ungodly hours of the night cruising the Internet!!!
Bill, that is ancient history IIRC. It didn't happen on the watch of the current ITAC so far as I recall.Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
I'll have to dig and see exactly which FasTrack it was in, but the weight on the ITS VR6 Golf and Jetta were both 'corrected'. Supposedly, the GTI was done w/in the 1 year of classification window, but the Jetta had been listed at least since the '02 GCR.
I don't see where you've pointed out I was wrong. Also, you didn't mention any specific cars until this post. So, when you say "those cars" perhaps you should communicate "what cars" much better. If you're back to the VWs mentioned above, we're just going around in circles and I won't play that game.Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Miller:
/edit/ And I don't know what you mean about proposed reclassifications. Right now, I don't believe there's a reclassification request on the table for any of those cars. Besides, you're the one that said there was no legal way to correct the problem. I was simply pointing out that you were wrong.
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Fo far y'all have spent a lot of effort describing why SCCA didnt want to get into comp adjustments for IT. There are large differences in the regional competitiveness of various models and unless the top cars compete head to head, there are no real comparisons. And we cannot expect that problem to be resolved.
I do believe that SCCA can do a better job in classification and reorganizing the IT classes. What worked in the 1990 environment ain't working now. Every grocery getter made, even the Korean stuff, has what were exotic parts back in the early days of IT. Hopefully the proposals in front of the BOD will help that process. It does appear that things have come a long way in the past yr or so.
Wrong again George. Maybe Darin can refresh your memory on this one.Quote:
Bill, that is ancient history IIRC. It didn't happen on the watch of the current ITAC so far as I recall.
George,Quote:
I don't see where you've pointed out I was wrong. Also, you didn't mention any specific cars until this post. So, when you say "those cars" perhaps you should communicate "what cars" much better. If you're back to the VWs mentioned above, we're just going around in circles and I won't play that game.
You said that there was no legal recourse to correct the #/hp ratios that I quoted for those VWs. Which by the way, was a few posts back, so I had mentioned a specific group of cars. Maybe you should pay more attention. Or perhaps that's why you don't recall the weight correction on those ITS VWs either.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
.
[This message has been edited by Geo (edited August 17, 2004).]
Hey Bill....I guess I'm slow, but how come every thread ends up being you asking Darin about some VW thing?? Isn't this about a 944?
------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Jake,
I don't believe I asked Darin anything in this thread. In fact, the only reference I made to Darin, was that maybe he could help refresh George's memory. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
[quote]Originally posted by Banzai240:
[B] George... I'm not even talking about the 944S here... We all know that it is going to be a really FAST ITS car... I'm talking specifically about the 944 and the perception that it is NOT an ITS contender...
A little late in this discussion, but what planet are you racing on.....Myself along with two other friends have the fastest 944's and 944 S in the Southeast Region and we don't even come close to the Bimmer World 325's, the SpeedSource RX'7's and Irish Mikes' 190 E....they are clearly 3 - 5 seconds faster at Sebring: 2:34 vs 2:39. Not that we don't have a blast racing 944's and I wouldn't change, but bring your car down here to a CFR-SCCA or an Atlanta Race and watch the bimmers and RX 7's go by. Our last race at Sebring out of 32 ITS cars, we were 9, 10, and 12 in qualifying. The race was in full rain and the 944, then, comes into it's own and Big Ricky pulled out a 3rd in class driving like a rally driver....best finish for a 944 down here in years....Go Rick
Mark
#54 944 S
[quote]Originally posted by wpspeedracer:
[b]Same thing I was thinking!!Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
A little late in this discussion,
No, you're not late, you are one of the few to keep the discusion centered on the original question!!
but what planet are you racing on
[This message has been edited by JLawton (edited August 19, 2004).]
Contact Jon Milledge "Mr 944" in the USA. He's made a living off building, developing, tweaking 944 race cars for many years.
http://www.jmengines.com/
------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##
[quote]Originally posted by JLawton:
[b]Jeff,Quote:
[b]Originally posted by wpspeedracer:
Same thing I was thinking!!Quote:
Originally posted by Banzai240:
A little late in this discussion,
No, you're not late, you are one of the few to keep the discusion centered on the original question!!
but what planet are you racing on
[This message has been edited by JLawton (edited August 19, 2004).]
Did you know a 944 was the 2002 NERRC Champ?
AB
------------------
Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com
This thread really demonstrates the regional differences with IT. The isn't a rats ass chance in hell a 944 could win at road atlanta unless nobody else showed up. Some really good professional drivers have tried. But at CMP, it happens, even against well prepared BMW's. And it seems to happen up north all the time. My guess it has alot to do with the type of track. CMP for example is full of twists and Road Atlanta is a hp track. These are things I hope the ITAC is looking at. I personally have my doubts that even a Milledge 944S will provide much competition for the BMW's in the southeast. They will be back with the 240z's and rx7's.
Tom
See above... I believe I've already said that this is why we have a diverse group of guys on the ITAC... Different parts of the country, different experiences...Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Donnelly:
These are things I hope the ITAC is looking at.
Which again illustrates what I said previously... I think most people would agree that the BMW is an overdog in ITS... If this car were brought in line or otherwise dealt with, the 944 would be "back with the 240z's and rx7's."Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Donnelly:
I personally have my doubts that even a Milledge 944S will provide much competition for the BMW's in the southeast. They will be back with the 240z's and rx7's.
Tom
------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/Web/DJ_AV1.jpg
[This message has been edited by Banzai240 (edited August 19, 2004).]