Where are they? :(
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Where are they? :(
http://roadrace-autox.com/bbs/forums/threa...posts=13#M15591
I saw this on rrax
Here's a nice writeup from one of the local papers...
http://www.journal-news.net/sports/story/0...ro_062506_s.asp
Gregg "The Torch" Ginsberg :wacko:
Because I saw the smart ass remark from Catch 22, regarding our failure let me make it perfectly clear, I ran consistant 29's & 30's for two 1.25 sessions with no mechanical failure, or failures because of the weight change, we were knocked out at 8PM because we had a short in the light bar wire harness that blew the alternator, and we ran out of batteries to replace. We had to replace an upright because we dropped the car down from a tire change without the lugs tight on one side and we snapped two wheel studs.
But I want to thank all the workers and thanks to all of the drivers out there who were gentlemen and gave room to me and other faster cars in the race. The miata guys were much less aggressive to us faster cars and in return many got good tows and passing opportunities.
Thanks again to the group and we had quite a few laughs and great teamwork.
Tom Blaney
I'd like to see a full set of results too, we went home early.
This was the 6th trip we'd made there and the first one we didn't finish. Overheated at about 7 hours in. W/ a 3 lap lead for the overall no less. Grump.
Looked pretty rough for the first 2 hours while I stood in the pit, after that it seemed to settle down. Had a great race w/ the RC Import guys after the caution that happened at about 3 hours. (thanks Rick, that was a lot of fun!)
I was glad to see that the RX7 that won it did so by good driving and planning, rather than just outspending everyone else as it has been for most of the past several years. Don't know who they were but it sure looked like they were having to work hard to get to the front and stay there. Its much more fun to watch someone get rewarded for hard work than just being lucky enough to bring a better car.
Hope I gave everyone room, if I didn't let me know so I don't do it again. The goal is to win, but to so by racing the same way we want to be raced.
Matt
#23 ITE Miata
I read the story in the local paper.
Too bad about Brian Mushnick's car. I am glad he is OK.
I guess it is time for him to build a Gen 2 RX7.
Is there something about racing a Rabbit (nee Golf) on the track? My better half's Rabbit was rolled into a ball at the runoffs one year, and the only thing worth stripping from the car was the motor. (But she did get a real nice story with pictures in Autoweek that year....)
You should see the photo that was published in the paper (not online). It's got the car completely inverted, windshield half hanging out, w/ two Miatae seemingly driving directly under it. Stellar photo that I'd scan in but having once been in the photog & paper biz I'm loathe to do w/out permission.
BTW, results are up:
http://offtotheraces.net/12HourFinal2006.pdf
it was definately not pretty
http://www.briansgarage.com/v3/image...k/BG_flip2.jpg
Sorry to hear about Mayor Mushnick's ride :wacko: !! That sucks.
Glad he is OK
Matt Bal
I wish I could echo Tom's comments about the aggressiveness of "certain" cars....... Maybe we had a different perspective being in one of the slower classes........
We saw a lot of poor decisions when it came to passing (this was not the case with the faster cars) It made no sense to me why these drivers were hammering each other like it was the last lap of a sprint race!! I'm sure you'll be hearing more on our "little incident"...........In lap 8!!!! :mad1:
Hope we gave people plenty of room. But figuring we probably got passed about 600 times (from my rough calculations)............... :unsure: The few times I ran door handle to door handle with the cars in our class, they did a great job. Made it fun!! Hope the feeling is the same!
But I also had a blast. The Phil Phillips/Conover Engines Golf was flawless. In fact, it was handling and braking just as good at 11:00 pm as it was in my first session!! Besides fixing crash damage, we only had to tighten the front hub nut, add a teaspoon of oil and that was it!! It was an incredible car!! Nice job Kirk and Cameron.
Great job by the workers, thank you!! Thanks to the the rest of the team for a great time!!
Yea, bummer about Brian and his VW. Glad he was OK. It looked pretty scarey!! Too bad for Matt Miskoe and his team.
Very tired, very sore......But can't wait till next year!!
On reflection - and with a good night's sleep in me - we have to be pretty damned happy with our result. I was telling Cameron that generally, when someone talks up the positives of a race they didn't win, it sounds like excuses but I'm very pleased.
I'd first like to apologize for being part of the problem when I charged into the five-foot long 'straight' between T5 and the Carousel, and into the quarter panel of a slow Miata - the white York entry, maybe? I was doing exactly what we're were being so critical of for the 11.5 hours up to that point, being a selfish bahstahd. The more I thought about it, the more pissed off I was at myself for being sucked into the vortex of stupidity. I will not however apologize to the four who, over the course of my stints, dived inside of me at T1, only to come to a grinding halt in front of me. They got a push for their trouble and should be thanking ME for giving them back a couple of the tenths that they threw away.
Cameron, Bill Miller, Phil Phillips, and Lee 'Yoda' Grimes did a great job getting a new tie rod - and 74 tie wraps - on the car after we got clobbered. Jeff is absolutely right that the car was literally easier to drive when I got in at 11:00pm than it had been in practice.
I'll let Greg fill in all of the details of the actual snub but will add in advance that we were talking just a lap before he came in about how impressed we were that he was hanging back, giving the particularly dumbass group of Miati plenty of room to beat on each other. He took his new fender home with him, autographed by the entire crew.
We've now completed 37 hours of long races with this group and spent a total of about 45 minutes doing unplanned repairs. We still haven't changed any brakes during a race and averaged about 11 mpg this weekend. I'm looking forward to seeing mylaps to get a better picture of how long we were actually delayed.
A huge thanks also to Collins Conover (head geek, who needs a Patrick Head-spec glass box next to the pit wall for his toys), Evan and Kathy Webb (for dumping fuel, taking great care of the whole crew, and shooting pictures), Spencer Conover (our equivalent of the enthusiastic, do-everything intern who got my ass out of a half dozen cracks), Jeff Lawton and Phil (for taking such good care of the car), and Greg 'Captain Panties' Amy for continuing to help the 'gentleman' car owner to go faster.
(PS to GA - Laurene says she forgives you, as long as you "weren't doing anything stupid when Pablo got hurt.")
K
Deleted - wrong user
Hmm - let me guess what makes/models of cars he's referring to... :wacko:Quote:
I wish I could echo Tom's comments about the aggressiveness of "certain" cars....... [/b]
I didn't arrive until 2200h on Sat due to a previous committment that went by the wayside after an incident on Friday afternoon. However I rec'd a blow-by-blow report from my ace race reporter Richard, son of the RC Imports team owner, Rick. He filled me in on all the "incidents", most of whom involved friends and acquaintances which pained me deeply since I don't care to see anyone's day ruined by an incident of any sort, even though s**t happens in racing.
[Caution - ranting below]
The question that begs to be asked and answered is "What is being done about these overagressive drivers who insist on crashing and banging at will?" The DC Region Stewards have instituted a "get tough on body work" policy in order to make such behaviour become expensive. However a good number of the DC Region have very deep pockets which makes this approach only marginally effective. IMHO, Stewards need to become PROACTIVE - when they receive numerous calls about a car (or cars) banging or bump drafting, pull them in ASAP and give them a stop and go. If the driver can't pull his/her head out of their butt, provide them with a nice probationary letter and so forth.
I'm not suggesting anything as non-competitive as a 13/13 rule but there clearly can be a happy medium. I've been working for a Grand Am Cup team this year and have been more involved than in previous years. As a result, I've been listening to the Net religiously and am impressed that Grand Am Cup proactively is telling drivers to "cease and desist" or in the case of a certain CTS-V driver, to go home and never disgrace VIR again.
[Rant off]
Gee Tom, I am a smartass, so that explains that.Quote:
Because I saw the smart ass remark from Catch 22, regarding our failure let me make it perfectly clear...
[/b]
As to why I'd be a smartass to you...
Well, I could answer your post above with something like "You should have let me wire the car, I have been wiring ITA cars for years and have never ever had any issues. My wiring is proven to be perfect and lasts longer than granite."
and then I could add...
"You are having problems because you just did it wrong."
Thats the type of answer I've watched YOU give to people on various web boards (including this one) for years. Any time someone has an issue or a failure its because they are doing something wrong or more often because they aren't using your parts.
I'm simply tossing your own stuff back at you. Feels great doesn't it?
Sorry for the detour, and yes, I know it was a waste of time.
Carry on...
For your information, the car no longer belongs to me, and I was not responsible for the wiring installation. The new owners did this years prep on the car, and seemed to have made a minor but critical mistake. However the balance of the car remained as it was when I owned it, so as in other events, the mechanical components that I prepared (and that are in many other CRX's) did not fail.
As to the comment regarding my crew not being prepared and slow in the pits, we were able to gas the car (with stock fuel system) in the one minute allotment, and swap the driver in similiar time frame.
My guys were able to replace an entire upright assembly and back on the track in less than 15 minutes (which included working on halfshafts, joints, tierods etc) which I see as quite impressive. During the weekend, we had 3 different individuals from different teams come over and comment on the impressive about of work that my boys did.
I will make comments on the board based on what people say is happening or their experiences, not on some halfass remark you made about reliability when you had no clue what you were talking about (as you seem to do on more than one occasion), so next time engage your brain before you touch a keyboard or dribble verbage past your teeth)
Tom Blaney
Seems like the best place to add comments about the weekend, so here goes.
First off, I'm glad that Brian is ok, that car took a major shot. Kudos to whoever did the cage in that car! :023:
And a big thanks to the folks from Joe M's and Brian M's crew that lent us various stuff throughout the race. Sure made things go easier!! :023:
A couple comments about our team. This was my second 12-hour @ SP w/ them, and I just want to say, I couldn't imagine a better group of people to work with. Everyone brings something to the table, and I can't imagine not having someone there. The chances for adversity in a race like this are high, but even when it shows up, everyone takes it in stride and remains up-beat. The 'do whatever it takes' attitude is everywhere. And I can't say that people check their egos at the door, because I really don't think that any of these people have one to check.
Kirk - Thanks for your attention to detail in building such a good car, made my job easy!
Cameron - It's always a pleasure to work with you!! :023:
Evan and Kathy - Not only are you guys great, but you've got two of the coolest dogs around!!
Phil - To say that your unflappable would be an understatement (hard to believe that we met almsot 20 years ago!)
Jeff - If you were any more relaxed, you'd probably be asleep. Oh, wait, you were asleep (don't know how you could do it w/ all that noise). Seriously, it's a pleasure to work w/ you, looking forward to VIR.
Collins - Without a doubt, you've got the coolest toys going (and they get the chicks! :023: )
Spencer - Hydrate or die! :D Thanks for all your help!
Dave - Nice to meet you, hope you enjoyed yourself, and thanks for the help.
Lee - I had no idea you were such a good juggler, you've set a pretty high bar. Great job! :023:
Greg - Without a doubt, the best sport I've ever met!
Thanks again for a great time, and I'm really looking forward to VIR!!!!
Well I had a great time working the event. I don't think I had a moment where people didnt offer me food, water, or a thank you for wearing my whites this weekend. It was great to finally put a few faces to the names here.
The pablo team was like clockwork and had really impressive stops. Though I must make sure I have my whistle on me at all times just in case Bill decides to play chicken with the RC import benz or another car trying to leave the pits. (Bill I suggest a miata next time they dent easier if you loose.)
As predictable as the sunrise.Quote:
For your information, the car no longer belongs to me, and I was not responsible for the wiring installation. The new owners did this years prep on the car, and seemed to have made a minor but critical mistake. However the balance of the car remained as it was when I owned it, so as in other events, the mechanical components that I prepared (and that are in many other CRX's) did not fail.
As to the comment regarding my crew not being prepared and slow in the pits, we were able to gas the car (with stock fuel system) in the one minute allotment, and swap the driver in similiar time frame.
My guys were able to replace an entire upright assembly and back on the track in less than 15 minutes (which included working on halfshafts, joints, tierods etc) which I see as quite impressive. During the weekend, we had 3 different individuals from different teams come over and comment on the impressive about of work that my boys did.
I will make comments on the board based on what people say is happening or their experiences, not on some halfass remark you made about reliability when you had no clue what you were talking about (as you seem to do on more than one occasion), so next time engage your brain before you touch a keyboard or dribble verbage past your teeth)
Tom Blaney
[/b]
We have attained status quo. Situation normal. Carry on.
I put my little write up on the (mis)adventures of the ITS #13 and #36 BMWs over RR-AX.com on the thread linked from this one.
I lost a tire and wheel in the pits at the 12 hour. It was a Kosei 15x7 4x100 et27 with a 225/50-15 kumho on it and could easily be mistaken for a spec miata (or lots of other) cars wheel. It didn't have my name or car number on it or anything. I suspect that it may have been picked up by accident by the folks that were in the pit one down from us. I think we were in pit 8 but I could be wrong. Anyway, if anyone picked up a wheel like that doesn't quite fit their car, its mine. You can email me at joel dot gallun at gmail dot com.
Let's start with the positive: as anyone that has been a part of, or around, this team can attest, this is a fantastic group of people with which to be associated. Jeff put it quite well and succinctly during our drive home yesterday: if it was anyone else, we'd probably not be doing it near as often (or at all). I cannot say enough for this team and its protagonists. Cheers to you guys!
As for "The Lap Eight Incident", well, how do I put this delicately without starting a major pissing match? I really can't. Bottom line, as a generalized group of people the Spec Miata drivers drive like total asshats. There, I said it, let the war begin.
Here's a sanitized, edited version of The Event I sent to a friend via email:
The Spec Miatas were all driving like [idiots]. Dive bombing, stupid low-percentage passes, passing in areas guaranteed to slow down both parties unless the passee drove off the road. Very selfish, me-me-me, gotta-get-this-done-right-now-or-we're-gonna-die type of driving. Even the low-key drivers of the team were getting hacked off by these [idiots].
And this was on the opening laps.
I took the green flag stint, starting 43rd of 50 overall, 2nd of 4 (?) in class. The field looked like a Miata convention, comprising (I heard) 36 of the 50 slots. Believe it or not, everyone tippy-toed through T1 with no immediately noticeable results. However, by the start of lap 2 all the Special Me's (and Super-Special Me's and Super-Special-Me's dressed up with ITA and ITS decals) were beating up on each other. ON THE SECOND LAP! And mean literally bumping, hip-checks, [stuff] like that. I quickly passed the leading ITB car and got stuck behind a pack of about 8 or so of these wankers; realizing that there was NO way I was getting through them I laid back about 100 or so feet to let them duke it out and thin out the herd.
Unfortunately, one of the [idiots] caught me off guard and tried a STUPID dive bomb pass on another Miata into a no-braking, all-momentum, full-throttle corner (entering turn 9) and started a classic Miata Melee in front of me. ON LAP EIGHT OF A FREAKIN' 12 HOUR RACE! Dust and cars was flying everywhere and I turned hard outside to intentionally drive off the track. Just as I was about to make it through the mess a black Special Me (the one that may have started this whole thing) backed out of the dust cloud to intercept my line off the track; I tried to turn away but couldn't and hit him square in the rear quarter. DAMMIT!!!
The car started fine (I had locked it up and stalled the engine when I hit the grass) but it was obvious the right-front suspension was bent. I turned the car around, only to see the "driver" of the Special Me out of the car and walking/running towards me. I let him know via hand signals he was Number One and drove towards the track, watching for the corner worker's signals to re-enter, and as I sat there waiting for directions the guy was yelling into the driver's window and banging on the roof! I ignored him and merged back into the flow and went straight into the pits.
(I heard later that his actions caused quite a stir on the Worker net. After I drove away he apparently tossed his ripped-off rear bumper into his car, jumped into the car with no belts, window net, or other safety equipment, and drove the car back in. A steward told me "they had a long discussion." The guy never got back on the track and was listed as a DNF with only 8 laps. Classic.)
I made it into the pits, cussing like an unhappy sailor (a pitlane worker near us said she learned a few new words that day - I apologized to the group afterwards). Damage on the Golf wasn't as bad as I feared: the bumper cover was trashed (it got tie-wrapped/taped up), the right front fender was crushed (banged out), fender liner was ripped and worn (removed), the passenger door was bashed (no performance effect), there was a bent tie rod, and a destroyed tire. Cameron and crew replaced the tie rod and tire, quick-aligned the car, and I was on my way. I had to come in once more for an alignment check (slightly toed-in) and once it was all said and done we had lost 19 laps - about 26 minutes - for the repairs, but the car felt fine. In fact, I ripped off a couple of near-qualifying times and kept going (Jeff later beat those times - and set fastest team race lap - in his stint).
At that point I decided since I had already bought a fender, door, and bumper cover I was going to knock every G-D SM off the track I could find ("they should all pay for sins of the family" is how I think I put it), but instead I behaved...
The rest of the day went swimmingly, with nary a major concern, except for long-term continuation of the afore-mentioned Stupid Miata Tricks. You would not believe some of the selfish, short-term thinking of these guys, sticking their little noses into places that made no sense, either strategically or tactically. The attitude is pretty much "I'm faster, it's your responsibility to get out of my way!" Funny part is, on rare occasion (and I do mean rare) you'd have one of those experienced drivers that understood what it meant to work traffic, to strategic "plan" a pass such to maximize relative traits and to minimize time loss to both parties involved. When you saw those guys you'd work with them and probably only tie them up - at most - 1/2 second. Then you've got the Terrible Two's drivers trying to barge in and hip check a Golf in the carousel. Interesting enough, you'd be surprised at how slow and wide a Golf gets through there...as one other drive put it, "hey, Chief, you're slowing me down? Then we're BOTH slowing down!" and they'd lose AT LEAST 2 seconds on that lap, plus whatever momentum they lost on the subsequent lap. The really funny part? They'd do the SAME G-D THING next time by! Amazing, simply awe-inspiring.
We finished the race second place in class -- 18 laps down. To say I'm ripped with both "them" and myself for letting it happen is an understatement. But, I'm proud of the job the guys did to get us back online and I'm proud what we did for the rest of the race.
Here's the ironic kicker: in July '04 I rented the Flatout #00 for the Pro Spec Miata race at LRP. I started near the back of the pack (it was my first time in a SM) and ended up t-boning a guy that was driving like an [idiot] and spun. Guess what sponsor decal was on the rear window of the car I tagged on Lap Eight? You guess it: same one. I gotta wonder if - up until reading this post - the guy knew I'm the same person? If it was the same driver, I refer you back to my posts on SM.com just after that July 2004 event. It's obvious nothing's changed in two years...
Karma's a pisser (thanks Christine), ain't it?
I hate Spec Miatas.
Another PS to the Summit festivities: We were the first team at any club enduro I've attended to put safety helmets on all of our over-the-wall guys. We had some sweaty noggins (Lee particularly, since he spent HOURS out at the wall) but no complaints, using OTS "extreme sports" helmets from Triple 8. Our thinking is that, if someone is going to be the poster child for the rule requiring helmets some day, it won't be one of our guys.
K
I wonder if the "long discussion" included words like "Please leave your license in the shredder, pack your s**t and GET OUT". Probably not but I'm trying to be positive. I wonder if JKB Tool.com team would care to elaborate on the actions of their driver? Fitting team name though...Tool...Quote:
(I heard later that his actions caused quite a stir on the Worker net. After I drove away he apparently tossed his ripped-off rear bumper into his car, jumped into the car with no belts, window net, or other safety equipment, and drove the car back in. A steward told me "they had a long discussion." The guy never got back on the track and was listed as a DNF with only 8 laps. Classic.)[/b]
Not all SM or SSM drivers are morons - a good majority of them are but not all. Most of the front runners can run a clean race although, just like every other driver, they can get over-excited and crash the car on the first lap or try to use a much larger (and damage inspiring) vehicle as an auxillary brake.
Out of curiosity, did y'all consider protesting this moron for unsportsmanlike conduct? Getting out of the car and banging on your roof is not only dangerous, it's stupid, childish, unsportsmanlike and just plain dumb. IMHO, the protest system works IF drivers have the testicles to USE it and the stewards have the testicles to ENFORCE it.
http://www.briansgarage.com/v3/image...k/BG_flip2.jpg
Good grief! We want you to buy the safety equipment, not use it!!
Quote:
I wonder if the "long discussion" included words like "Please leave your license in the shredder, pack your s**t and GET OUT". Probably not but I'm trying to be positive. I wonder if JKB Tool.com team would care to elaborate on the actions of their driver? Fitting team name though...Tool...
Not all SM or SSM drivers are morons - a good majority of them are but not all. Most of the front runners can run a clean race although, just like every other driver, they can get over-excited and crash the car on the first lap or try to use a much larger (and damage inspiring) vehicle as an auxillary brake.
Out of curiosity, did y'all consider protesting this moron for unsportsmanlike conduct? Getting out of the car and banging on your roof is not only dangerous, it's stupid, childish, unsportsmanlike and just plain dumb. IMHO, the protest system works IF drivers have the testicles to USE it and the stewards have the testicles to ENFORCE it.
[/b]
Yeah Matt, they should take a page from your book and learn that you only use smaller cars for auxillary brakes!!! (kidding bud :birra: )
Good point about the protest. I don't ever recall the topic ever comming up throughout the course of the race. I think we were all focused on getting the car fixed and fixed right, and seeing what, if anything, we could do to catch the #28 car. Any way to find out which driver started the race in that car?
Other then asking Troxel and Team York, no idea. I think it was a two driver team of both Troxels, but I didnt not work that section of the pits to know for sure.
Not that team James, the #77 car that was involved w/ us on lap 8.Quote:
Other then asking Troxel and Team York, no idea. I think it was a two driver team of both Troxels, but I didnt not work that section of the pits to know for sure.
[/b]
oh, I don't know. I wonder if you can ask for the name from the incident report.
At this point, a protest is moot but it certainly is food for thought in the future. I'm not a huge fan of protesting every infraction BUT when it becomes evident that another driver is a hazard, it's time to remove said driver. We did this in ITA a few years ago only to have that driver switch regions (where they were more sympathetic to his driving style or lack thereof) - fortunately said driver was intelligent enough NOT to return to Summit Point where he felt he had been victimized (b/c he kept crashing into lap traffic and "racing" the leaders).Quote:
Good point about the protest. I don't ever recall the topic ever comming up throughout the course of the race. I think we were all focused on getting the car fixed and fixed right, and seeing what, if anything, we could do to catch the #28 car. Any way to find out which driver started the race in that car?
[/b]
I certainly applaud your collective efforts in repairing the car - obviously fixing the car and getting it back on the track are paramount. However when someone is that blantantly STUPID, I'd advocate protesting since such action can sway a Steward who has a corner report but no input from the affected driver/team to further enhance his/her decisions. The only caveat is to be damn sure about the protest - a few years ago, a certain P-Car team tried to protest a certain MB Team for pitting when the pits were closed. Unfortunately numerous cars pitted as well but they weren't part of the protest and it was therefore disallowed b/c the protest was clearly aimed to keep the MB Team from winning rather than it was to make the race fair. Had the P-Car team protested THE ENTIRE RACE b/c of poor pit closure signs, that probably would have been a very different story but that's in another nightmare unto itself.
And Bill, you forget that I drive THE LARGEST (and probably the heaviest) vehicle in ITA - a Golf aka The Flying Pig.
Quote:
And Bill, you forget that I am THE LARGEST (and probably the heaviest) driver in ITA - aka The Flying Pig.
[/b]
:lol: :P :birra:
All kidding aside, I agree w/ you 110% Matt. If the driver was yelling and screaming at Greg, and beating on the car, then by all means, he was deserving of a protest. But being as he seemed to take care of endearing himself to the stewards all by himself, it would have probably been akin to gilding the lily.
BTW, in the six years that I crewed for a short-track asphalt team, I saw plenty of bone-headed moves, w/ significantly different results. I'm so glad that road racing is a more 'gentlemanly' sport! :P
Oh the moment the full report hit the radio about his conduct I already knew race control, the steward and possibly the SOM was going to speak with him. I was actually shocked and I had a rookie pit marshal in the truck with me at turn 5 when the calls came out. I had to explain to him this is NOT normal which thankfully he believed.
The #77 car was paddocked right next to us. I did see two of the safety stewards have a discussion with the driver after the incident. I don't know what happened after the discussion, but the team did pack up and leave very quickly. Seems like a waste to me, all the money and effort to go to this race and crash out in the first half hour.Quote:
I wonder if the "long discussion" included words like "Please leave your license in the shredder, pack your s**t and GET OUT". Probably not but I'm trying to be positive. I wonder if JKB Tool.com team would care to elaborate on the actions of their driver? Fitting team name though...Tool...
Not all SM or SSM drivers are morons - a good majority of them are but not all. Most of the front runners can run a clean race although, just like every other driver, they can get over-excited and crash the car on the first lap or try to use a much larger (and damage inspiring) vehicle as an auxillary brake.
Out of curiosity, did y'all consider protesting this moron for unsportsmanlike conduct? Getting out of the car and banging on your roof is not only dangerous, it's stupid, childish, unsportsmanlike and just plain dumb. IMHO, the protest system works IF drivers have the testicles to USE it and the stewards have the testicles to ENFORCE it.
[/b]
I too am glad that Brian Mushnick is ok. He crawled out of the upside down Golf and stood there making the perfect target of himself after the roll. Thankfully nobody collected him while he was greatly exposed. But I can imagine that his bell was ringing pretty hard from the multiple impacts.
Thanks to all who made this a great race as usual.
cheers
"dangerous" dave parker
I ONLY ROLL CARS FOR MONEY.
Yes, but judging by what I heard from our drivers most of those guys stayed home.Quote:
Not all SM or SSM drivers are morons...[/b]
Or, as was the case with our team, they were guys who regularly drive in other classes, and just happened to get in a Miata for this weekend. I was crewing for Kirk Dohne and company (including drivers Pat Sharkitt and Runoffs FM champ Chris Schanzle), and seemingly every time one of them came in they would have a story of some stupidity on the part of another Miata driver. Unfortunately (or not) our guys had to miss most of the early race excitement, as brake failure going into 5 on the second lap put Kirk into the tires, and resulted in an hour and a half in the paddock replacing steering rack, tie rod ends, brake pieces, etc, in addition to pounding out sheet metal along the whole left side of the car. I don't know how far down we were by the time we got back out, but it must have been something like 70 - 75 laps. The rest of the day was uneventful by comparison, and between attrition on the part of other cars, and some solid driving on our guys part (fast lap in the 1:32's) we were able to pick up some 16 - 17 places by midnight.
All in all the weekend was an awesome experience. Kirk, Pat, and Chris managed to assemble a great bunch of guys (and girls) together for a crew - I was continually impressed by the enthusiasm and positive attitude shown by every member, even when faced with a twisted and broken race car only 5 minutes into the event. I can only hope to get the chance to get back out there next year.
Kirk K, it was nice to finally meet you and put a face to the name. Greg, I'm sorry I decided to stop by while you were out there terrorizing those poor Miata drivers :D , maybe I'll catch you (figuratively, not literally) at the Glen next month. Matt - I wish I had known you were there, I would have recruited you for the packing crew :P .
Along the SM/Protest lines, I gotta share this...
Early last year at a SARRC (sprint) at Road Atlanta, one SM driver managed to do the following in one weekend...
- Hit me, under double yellow, during qualifying.
- Spin in the middle of turn 1 on the start.
- Turn an ITB car into the front straight wall on lap 2 as he tried to force his way back by from the back.
- He finally managed to crash his own car and take himself out of the endurance race on Sunday.
When I spoke with a steward about taking action, I was told "Oh, we already got alot of stuff on that guy." so having better things to do I decided to let it go.
Guess what... He was right there on grid for the next race.
I don't know if he ever got his pee pee spanked in any sort of way, but it certainly didn't seem that the penalty had any real meat to it.
The guys up front in SM tend to be pretty good. And the guys in the back tend to realize they aren't all that fast and are very courteous. In my experience, the vast majority of the asshats are in the middle. Guys that don't quite have the talent to get to the front, but try really really hard to get there anyway. Its no coincidence that you hear ITB and ITC guys HATING SM drivers because its these mid pack guys that they always have to deal with and usually get hit by.
I spent a couple of years watching these idiots not be able to cleanly get by me in my ITC car. I know of what Greg speaks, and its not any fun to be that frontrunner in ITB/C surrounded by the idiots in P18 through 25 in SM.
One of our divisions faster SM drivers had to start at the back of a big Road Atlanta race last year due to issues in qualifying. After the race his comment was something like "Man, it IS horrible back there."
Given most stewards' attempts to not "play God", your experience goes to show that filing a protest against a true hazard will help to provide the overwhelming evidence necessary for a Steward to go from making a "Well, I've heard alot of complaints" judgement to a "You need to take up a different hobby b/c you clearly don't know how to race" decision. Just b/c we see stupidity as drivers doesn't mean that the Stewards have all the facts at hand - corner reports are important BUT as was evidenced by an appeal that a local ITC driver won last year, in-car footage and clear, definitive FACTS by a driver carry significantly more weight.Quote:
When I spoke with a steward about taking action, I was told "Oh, we already got alot of stuff on that guy." so having better things to do I decided to let it go.
Guess what... He was right there on grid for the next race.
I don't know if he ever got his pee pee spanked in any sort of way, but it certainly didn't seem that the penalty had any real meat to it.[/b]
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...
They were pitted right next to us. The guy came speeding into the pits, way too fast, stopped in front of his pit box and immediately got out screaming "i'm gonna kill that muthafuckaaa!!!! where tha fuck is hee!1!!!". Totally unsportsmanlike. Then he stormed off to the enclosed trailer where the rest of his shit is, and threw his helmet and attached HANS from one end of the trailer to the other, into the wall. Good job destroying the equipment that is supposed to save your head, jackass.Quote:
(I heard later that his actions caused quite a stir on the Worker net. After I drove away he apparently tossed his ripped-off rear bumper into his car, jumped into the car with no belts, window net, or other safety equipment, and drove the car back in.
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Tom, its unfortunate that you had the DNF but the being slow in the pits is a simple observation that you seem to have taken some sort of personal offense to. We were pitted about 10 pit boxes down and kept an eye on your pit stops, as well as all the other ITA cars.Quote:
As to the comment regarding my crew not being prepared and slow in the pits, we were able to gas the car (with stock fuel system) in the one minute allotment, and swap the driver in similiar time frame.
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Your fueling was fine, with the stock fuel tank you cant do much to make up time really - with a dry break we were getting 22 gallons in in under 40 seconds, so that helps alot. What I noticed most was the tire changes, there just wasnt any coordination between the team members and they were just off the pace - there seemed to be poor communication among the team, and the guys were a bit clumsy getting the wheels back on - and the car falling off the jack and breaking lugnuts is really the result of not practicing your pit stops.
Take it as constructive criticism to improve for next year I suppose.
Those weren't "his guys" doing slow tire changes and dropping the car RJ.
Just thought I'd save Blaney the typing. I know the answers by heart after a few years of it.
It never ceases to amaze me that some idiot goes spinning off the track and gets collected by a hapless bystander at which time it becomes THE BYSTANDER'S FAULT that the spinning car was damaged. Hello? If the car hadn't spun off the track, it would have NEVER been collected. Too bad the stewards didn't see his display of sportsmanship. A few years ago, some driver threw his helmet on the ground after an incident and this was witnessed by the corner station. To almost quote the Steward "Please have Tech examine his helmet very carefully for damage". I get the impression that Mr. Rocket Scientist not only got to repair his damaged racecar (damaged by his own stupidity) but that he also got to purchase a new helmet for his troubles. :bash_1_:Quote:
They were pitted right next to us. The guy came speeding into the pits, way too fast, stopped in front of his pit box and immediately got out screaming "i'm gonna kill that muthafuckaaa!!!! where tha fuck is hee!1!!!". Totally unsportsmanlike. Then he stormed off to the enclosed trailer where the rest of his shit is, and threw his helmet and attached HANS from one end of the trailer to the other, into the wall. Good job destroying the equipment that is supposed to save your head, jackass.[/b]
Speaking of speeding in the pits - I think the DC Region needs to purchase a Radar Gun (are you listening Lauren?). The Gun should be on a Pit marshall who should use it indiscriminately up and down the pit lane. This is what Grand Am does and it works - cars enter the pits at 45 mph and stick to that speed, period, end of discussion. All the talk of "This is amateur racing" doesn't cut it b/c regardless of the event, when a speeding car meets an unprotected human, the results are the same - SPLAT.
Maybe I have a skewed perception (two-driver team that's done every SP12...so that means I've been out there for 50% of all the SP12 racing), but it was a pretty clean race. This was our fourteenth (?) 12-ish hour race, and IMO it was pretty tame compared to the rest.
Yeah...I had a ring-side seat for Greg's Lap 8 mash, and it was a pretty stupid move by the aforementioned Miata (I went far enough to the outside to miss the wreck), but I didn't really see anything else that I'd describe as "egregiously stupid" out there. Some "oh boy, that's not smart" stuff, but not any "what a dumbazz fvckwitz" moves. Even "Stupid Hour" (11PM to midnight) was pretty clean, compared to previous years.
As usual, the biggest problems were from people 'racing' against cars in another class. Kiddies...by the 3 or 4 hour mark, if you're not leading overall, you're most likely battling for class position. In the daylight, I know what classes are in front of me and behind me on track 'cuz I can see them...and at night I can tell by how fast the headlights climb on me whether it's a fast car...and I don't "race" cars in other classes. A little courtesy goes a long way.
The overall winners (Wilson and Armstrong in the ITS RX7) were spectacular in managing traffic and running a clean and sportsman-like race.
It's also nice to see a real IT car take the overall win, rather than some tarted-up $100K+ racer that shows up to beat up on guys with $7000 club cars. I always wanted to 'door' that Ferrari or the whizbang 99-something Porsche that showed up in previous years....just one big door donut...please...
Amen. I also felt it was one of the cleanest events ever.Quote:
Maybe I have a skewed perception (two-driver team that's done every SP12...so that means I've been out there for 50% of all the SP12 racing), but it was a pretty clean race. This was our fourteenth (?) 12-ish hour race, and IMO it was pretty tame compared to the rest.
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A big kudos to the stewards and workers that did (what I feel) was an incredible job of keeping the event green-flag as much as humanly possible.
I believe our car was 'nearly' incindent free and non-incindent-causing for 12 hours.
We only have one donut on the door- and well, the driver tells me it was a Miata- but honestly, if I didn't EXPECT this stuff to happen (and maybe much worse) then I'd just give up the sport entirely. I know I'm not perfect - no one else is either. I just don't go looking for trouble on purpose. Human error is to be expected on occasion.
To the competitors I saw in the other classes : Thank you for the deference that you extended our team during the 12 Hours. I hope we were able to return the favor for you when it made sense.
To our fellow competitors in ITA - thanks for a great race! Win or lose, it was great to have such good competition. I look forward to doing it again next year, and hope you do too.
Edwin Robinson.
#84 ITA
I'm usually just a lurker, but I thought I would weigh in on this one. The VIR CTS-V driver happens to be a multiple National championship winner and a guy I have raced against before. I was crewing for a different team at the VIR Cup race when the CTS and BMW came together. While the Caddy certainly got hung out to dry to Speed, it wasn't quite that clear cut. The Caddy driver had gotten caught by the pace car for the full course yellow and ended up as the first car behind the pace car - but ahead of the leader. He made his jump trying to avoid going a lap down and was in front of the BMW when the cars made contact. Obviously no one likes contact or wants to take out the leader, but the BMW could have *easily* backed out of a turn he didn't have and (moreover) didn't need to win when the VIR straight is just seconds away. Part of winning races is knowing when to push and when not to. With all the rain and the cautions it was important to try to not go a lap down because you might easily get caught back up. He didn't drive into the BMW - he kept coming across the track on his line through the corner. Beat him up for driving a car a bit bigger than he might have been used to, but the guy has a long track record of beating professional drivers and racing clean. As an FYI, he was back at Lime Rock and Mid Ohio running the car.Quote:
...Grand Am Cup proactively is telling drivers to "cease and desist" or in the case of a certain CTS-V driver, to go home and never disgrace VIR again.
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Switching gears, what happened with the ITE 'inspection' that was supposed to happen. Did any of the ITE cars get inspected or DQ'd? What happened to the Porsche?