2nd gen rx7 issues hot ....hot.....crappy looking coolant.

I just bought this car late last fall..... car was a good runner and has a fresh motor according to the shop I purchased it from. I wanted a good ITS car and just want this thing fixed. I live in Pittsburgh and need a place that can fix the cooling issues and probably repair the engine. The car smokes when started and the coolant looks like sh*t. It never seems to pull the water from the over flow bottle back in the motor so seems to be low on water....spits it out with a bit of oil like residue. I tried to drive the car this past weekend on an open lapping day and got (3) 5 min sessions. oil temp 240 water temp 240........ the more I talk to people the more it sounds like it is f**ked up. The car has a Haltech system, so who ever fixes it needs to tune it probably......... BTW the car came with no slpitter but used to run one and I guess it needs one...but I think it is beyond just getting one. I want a top performing engine...... Where can I get the car fixed and be a top running car..... like I said I live just outside of Pittsburgh.....I WANT IT OUT OF MY SITE AND JUST FIXED...please help.....I think I may have made a bad decision.

Greg
724-622-1898
[email protected]

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Originally Posted by gpeluso

I just bought this car late last fall..... car was a good runner and has a fresh motor according to the shop I purchased it from. I wanted a good ITS car and just want this thing fixed. I live in Pittsburgh and need a place that can fix the cooling issues and probably repair the engine. The car smokes when started and the coolant looks like sh*t. It never seems to pull the water from the over flow bottle back in the motor so seems to be low on water....spits it out with a bit of oil like residue. I tried to drive the car this past weekend on an open lapping day and got (3) 5 min sessions. oil temp 240 water temp 240........ the more I talk to people the more it sounds like it is f**ked up. The car has a Haltech system, so who ever fixes it needs to tune it probably......... BTW the car came with no slpitter but used to run one and I guess it needs one...but I think it is beyond just getting one. I want a top performing engine...... Where can I get the car fixed and be a top running car..... like I said I live just outside of Pittsburgh.....I WANT IT OUT OF MY SITE AND JUST FIXED...please help.....I think I may have made a bad decision.

Greg
724-622-1898
[email protected]

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Sounds like a guestion for Ray Lee, Dick, Andy or Jake

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Originally Posted by gpeluso

I just bought this car late last fall..... car was a good runner and has a fresh motor according to the shop I purchased it from. I wanted a good ITS car and just want this thing fixed. I live in Pittsburgh and need a place that can fix the cooling issues and probably repair the engine. The car smokes when started and the coolant looks like sh*t. It never seems to pull the water from the over flow bottle back in the motor so seems to be low on water....spits it out with a bit of oil like residue. I tried to drive the car this past weekend on an open lapping day and got (3) 5 min sessions. oil temp 240 water temp 240........ the more I talk to people the more it sounds like it is f**ked up. The car has a Haltech system, so who ever fixes it needs to tune it probably......... BTW the car came with no slpitter but used to run one and I guess it needs one...but I think it is beyond just getting one. I want a top performing engine...... Where can I get the car fixed and be a top running car..... like I said I live just outside of Pittsburgh.....I WANT IT OUT OF MY SITE AND JUST FIXED...please help.....I think I may have made a bad decision.

Greg
724-622-1898
[email protected]

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Greg, you should call Mark at McB in Bridgeville. He know has 2 Rx& ITS cars in the stable down there an I know he has fixed cooling issues with one of them.

Greg, What kind of radiator / Oil cooler setup do you have?
Does the car continue to puff white smoke after it is warm or just on startup?
What does the smoke smell like... sweet antifreeze / water? or exhaust fume?

Common issue of a busted 13B is a blown water seal in which case you will be able to tell by the white smoke... requires rebuild

well, talked to Dave at KDRotary..... he is calling me this after noon and is sending someone 5 hrs to come and pick up the car......happy with Dave and Darrell (shop owners), not thrilled about this purchase....got to drive the car a total of 15-20 min..... should have done MUCH better homework. Atleast I have my trusty specmiata to run this weekend...... not a great return to IT racing. This car was wrecked at LimeRock and I have a feeling that there may have been some damage related to heat that may have not shown it head.... The car was then raced at Watkins without the undertray and or splitter.....the resevoir water looked like sh*t from day one. Like anything else I will just need to dump alot more into it....... I'll let you know what is the true problem when the guys tear into it. Thanks everyone.

Greg Peluso

Dave is a straight up guy and absolute RX7 guru... hopefully youll be fixed up in no time!

The time line of what occurred isn't completely clear - did the engine run ok last fall, but overheat when you 1st took it out this year? I've witnessed engine seals fail if they are stored over the winter without sufficient glycol - everything was fine in the fall, and then oil and water became one over the winter. Water in the engine freezes and expands, failing the main O rings.

It is always a good idea to store these cars with antifreeze in them. The cast iron will corrode quickly and let the seals move and they blow first time it comes up to temp. The area around the water jacket in some of these motors is .070 or less depending on core shift in casting. First put a pressure tester on the cooling system and see if it pushes AF into the chambers. Sniff tester(O2 sensor) on the open radiator cap with the motor running will find a leaking seal as well. If the car was designed to have a splitter and it is gone the low mounted oil cooler will not work. All the air is ducted with the splitter opening. Run the car with 200-220 water and never over 230 oil if you can. We run the factory 160 thermostat in all our cars.

Worst case you will need one cast iron and a seal kit if everything else was as advertised. If you have the motor cracked open replace the apex seal springs. Don't give up, it will be worth a little headache when you get it right.

time line...
i picked up the car in the fall and tried to run it an EMRA time trial event.....the water looked crappy then.. ran a 5 min session and saw water leaking from the rad area. I was upset that I pick up the car and it had isues....at the track I removed the resevoir and cleaned it out in hopes this was not coming from the engine....it was cold out and the car never got hot in 5 min.

this winter the car was stored in a heated garage and started once a month.

over the winter I replaced the spark plugs and oil due to the car flooding during one of the start ups.....the way the car is tuned , it is a bitch to keep running until it warms up.(Haltech system). I also fixed one of the hoses on the bottom of the rad.

last week......took car to open lap day and experienced what I stated earlier.

Conclusion.......car was messed up when I got it!

Any news Greg?

they picked up the car yesterday afternoon......5 hr drive so I'm hoping to hear from KD rotary tomorrow... and it would be nice to hear from the seller too. Thanks for asking Chris. I just talked to Matt over at Pirate Motorsports today and he did say you are the man when it comes to Haltech programming. Those guys run a RX8 in Grand Am.

Greg

well, good and bad news.....Dave at KD Rotary is finishing up the RX7 and should be done tomorrow. The over heating was coming from one of the Rad caps being bad and the water pump was pouring water out of it. That was the water I saw running out of the front of the motor. Dave also had to fix the front oil seal by the crank.... it was a pretty bad oil leak and he also fixed the oil beather sytem the guys had on the car....oil would leak down the side on the plugs. Dave also rasied the lower oil cooler so a stock belly pan would fit. Tuning is the last on his list.......he has worked out the poor cold start programing and is going to throw it on a dyno tomorrow ans see if he needs to tweak the Haltech sytem anymore. I hope I caught the high temps I saw in time... so far it looks that was.....The good is that it is going to be fixed and delivered back to me early next week........ the bad is that I thought the car was ready to go when I got it........from delivery I have been unable to run the car without issue.. I hope the shop that sold me the car can soften the blow.... but I still have not heard a response. I know its a racecar and a machine but it had a problem day 1 , even when it was to be in top mechanical condition(I knew the body had bruises). So far I am very happy with KD Rotary. BTW Dave thinks the crappy water is vasoline from an engine rebuild.

Greg

well, just got the BAD NEWS!.........car had little power on Dave's dyno.....it is beat... LOOKS LIKE I AM PAYING FOR A REBUILD. NO RACING THIS WEEKEND. I am not happy and wish I never ever purchased this car... still no response from the shop that sold it to me. Dave at KD Rotary seems like he will be able to put in a reliable motor that makes good power.

Greg

The car Greg bought was mine, the good old green number 05 RX-7. I’ve been watching this thread passively, but I do believe this is a good time to offer my on point of view on the transaction – two sides to every story, and all that.

First and most important: Greg bought the car from me, not from Flatout Motorsports. It’s understandable that this would seem blurry, as he dealt with both Andy Bettencourt and Nick Leverone, my partners. But any lingering dissatisfaction should be directed at me and me alone.

Now on to other matters:

For starters, Greg bought a 23-year-old race car sight unseen. Naturally, he saw a lot of pics and asked many intelligent questions, which we answered truthfully. But a 23-year-old race car is not a Camry, correct?

Purchase price was $8200 or $8300 (can’t remember) delivered. If you’re a second-gen RX-7 guy, you’ll know I’m not exaggerating when I say I could have sold the wheels, diff, tranny and shocks for about that. The tranny and 5:12 Torsen were less than a season old, and the engine was three races old and was making HUGE power. A key reason for the low purchase price was front sheetmetal damage that didn’t affect performance (the car took two firsts and a third in its last three races with me).

Recap: Greg bought a 23-year-old race car with 2 sets of SSRs, a 5:12 Torsen, and a fresh, strong motor for $8200 or $8300, and he bought it under as-is conditions.

Now clearly, Greg had a problem with the car’s engine right from the start. This is a bummer. I wish it weren’t so. What was the origin of the problem? I don’t know. I know the car ran easy 1:00.5s at Lime Rock a month earlier.

I also think it’s appropriate for me to point out that in emails, Greg has complained to me about a host of problems in his $8200 (or $8300) race car, from the fact that we forgot to send the logbook with the car (a stupid mistake on my part, and one I apologized for) to the paint code.

I’m sure Greg is a good guy. I know it stinks when major purchases don’t work out the way you hoped they would. I wish he had climbed in my old car, lit the engine, and immediately loved it, the way I did when I bought it from Jeff Hill 5 years ago.

As to whether Greg is owed anything by me (not by Flatout), well … I’m interested to hear opinions from those of you who know me personally or by reputation.


Steve Ulfelder
Flatout Motorsports
Honda S2000
05 ITR

Just remember Andy's Ad for the car..........price or not .......was told ready to go ...... Engine is apart and know what the origin of the problem is now. This is not no 1st race car....... REMEMBER ANDY's AD... that was what was advertised.....i never got a session with more than 5 min...... I believe the car was rented for the prior event before I purchased it.......AD did not say OLD 23yr racecar for sale that can not be run in current state...... Steve I was just looking for some help since you guys own a shop that did prep and your partner sold the car.....it even said FLATOUT all over the car.... I just was looking for help not ....I never even mentioned FLATOUT in this thread until now. I have an aditional 7k in the car........so I'm missing the great $8,300 deal.....If i wanted a parts car I would have bought one.... I could have purchased a ready to go car for $12k... without problems. Remember the ad! Maybe there are other issues that I don't know about since I have not been able to run the car for more than 5 min....... SO where are the other set of SSR's ........I got 1 set of SSR's....1 set of a different brand..... 1 set stock....... can't wait to get the other set of SSR's.....????????????? I guess it is what it is...Steve, I wish you would have just responded to me in the email I sent you about what was found when the motor was opened up...not here. Nick called yesterday and left a message and I to left a message for him, he has always been good to talk to in the past. Other people opinions should not determine what is the right thing to do reguarding this transaction..... as it stands things just have not worked out for me.... I'm sure KDR will be having the running great again, I'm not a great driver like you but I will do my best to get the car buzzing around the track.....maybe 2010 will have a good finish for me.

Greg

Oh the joys of selling and buying race cars...

Steve is a standup guy and I am sure that he was not aware of any problems.

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Originally Posted by gpeluso

SO where are the other set of SSR's ........I got 1 set of SSR's....1 set of a different brand..... 1 set stock....... can't wait to get the other set of SSR's.....????????????? I'm not a great driver like you ...

Greg

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Regarding the wheels: My mistake. The car shipped with one set of SSRs and one other set of featherlight wheels that cost $350 a pop (in addition to the rain tires on stock rims). Apologies.

Regarding my driving prowess: I wish. I'm a midpack hacker all the way. Sometimes I win if all the fast guys forget to show up.

Steve

What did opening the motor show?

Steve, Andy and NIck have been a part of the IT scene for a long time, and have been involved in the sale of a lot of ITS RX7s. They are part of the "in" crowd that knows which cars are good, which to be avoided, etc.

I'd be very surprised if anything intentional was done here.

If the motor shows that the car is not as represented maybe Steve should do something for you. But a race motor, even a new one, can fail first time out, and on an as is where is sale, hard to see how they are responsible -- unless, again, the teardown shows something not as represented.

I hope you guys work this out. Dealing with it on the open forum is not the best way to handle it.

Very dissapointing. Original ad:

https://improvedtouring.com...hlight=Flatout

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Originally Posted by JeffYoung

What did opening the motor show? If the motor shows that the car is not as represented maybe Steve should do something for you.

I hope you guys work this out. Dealing with it on the open forum is not the best way to handle it.

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Excellent points both. I imagine we'll get something worked out.

Steve

The car came home today.... Dave at KDR did a great job rebuilding the motor and for a good price. I still need a new rad since the one it came with has quite a few patches on it....Dave even did some additional epoxy work this morning too.....Can't wait to run it. It looks like Nelson's next weekend!

Greg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gpeluso

I tried to drive the car this past weekend on an open lapping day and got (3) 5 min sessions. oil temp 240 water temp 240........ the more I talk to people the more it sounds like it is f**ked up.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gpeluso

time line...first...
..... ran a 5 min session and saw water leaking from the rad area. I was upset that I pick up the car and it had isues...

last week......took car to open lap day and experienced what I stated earlier. (water at 240)

Conclusion.......car was messed up when I got it!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gpeluso

The over heating was coming from one of the Rad caps being bad and the water pump was pouring water out of it. That was the water I saw running out of the front of the motor.

Greg

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Seems like a simple water pump failure has caused low water levels leading to further issues. According to your time line you saw water leaking from the car right away.

As a distant observer it looks like one of those deals that unfortunately happened, (water pump failed a seal or whatever) but, because it wasn't attended to properly, it spiraled.