Question for those knowledgable about trailers....

I've a question for those knowledgeable about trailers. My race trailer has too much tongue weight. Way too much. We measured it on the scales yesterday at about 1600-1700 lbs of tongue weight. Way more than recommended for even a class V receiver, which I don't have. I only have a class four, and it is rated to about 1000 lbs with the load leveling system.

I routinely tow with the 1200 load leveling bars and my air bags pumped up to about 75 psi. Setup in this fashion the trailer tows great - nice and straight, no swaying, and stops easily thanks to the dual axle electric brakes. It also works awesome at the track. Everything is at your fingertips, very easy to use, and makes racing less work. Everyone that has seen the rig loves how it works.

But, the tongue weight is a problem. I can move some weight in the trailer but the general layout is fixed and things won't shift too much. The Z is a 50/50 F/R balance car so loading it backward has no effect. Loading it a little further rearward helps but I can only go so far. So, I need a fix but have to stick with the following:

Boundary conditions - solution must work with trailer as it is now. We're not cutting tire racks off, moving the box back two feet, putting stuff in the pickup bed, lengthening the rear of the trailer, putting on goose necks, and so on.

Keeping that in mind I've come up with a couple of options: a) Move the two axles forward, or, b) add a third axle. Of these options adding a third axle is by far the easiest due to the under floor steel lockers that are already in place on the trailer.

So, what about a third axle? Think it'll help much with tongue weight? What about towing with a third axle? Some people have told me the trailer will be extremely hard to turn and park compared to a dual axle trailer. Is it really that hard?

Third axle pros: larger safety margin for an overloaded trailer, remove some tongue weight, more redundancy

Third axle cons: I bet fuel mileage will suffer, but how much? Is handling that bad with a third axle? How bad?

I'm leaning toward the third axle option. Anyone have experience with triple axle trailers they'd like to share?

BTW, the trailer looks like this:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/attachmen...8&d=1257254202

Lengthen the tongue. Only half kidding :) Can you change what you pack in the box to underneath and in the rearward under car storage area. How much tongue weight is present without car or any thing else loaded on the trailer?

I personally would not add a 3rd axle on such a short trailer. I think you should consider moving the tire rack even though it is out of bounds. :(

Just thinking out loud.

That tongue weight is worrisome. It would be easier to buy a different, larger trailer than add a third axle. Or, sell the truck and buy a dualie that can handle that much weight on the rear tires.

The huge storage box is the problem - you might be better with a 20-24 ft enclosed and have shelter too. That size trailer can be found no problem and great prices.

Sell what you have on eBay for $2200-2800 and take that money towards a better trailer. End up with something with better resale than a modded up triple axle is that thing factory? kind rig...

Yo, Dr. Ingineer! If you're willing to drop a third axle on it, how about instead making an adjustable mount for the existing two-axle, a la pin-adjustable semi-trailers? instead of a fixed location for the leaf springs (I assume leaf-spring; is it torsion bars?) you make a slidable, adjustable locator system like they use in them-thar "big rigs". That way you can slide it backards and for'ards to meet your load....

GA

P.S., Luvin' that solar panel suggestion. We dropped one on ours mid-winter and batteries are "A-OK"...thanks for the suggestion!

What about bolting on some weight in the rear of the trailer, say 300-400 lbs of lead or steel plates?

I can tell you that my 3-axle, 24' enclosed really doesn't tow any differently than any of the 2-axle trailers I've had before it.

But there's a lot more sideways-tire-dragging on tight turns when parking or turning in a cul-de-sac.

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Originally Posted by benspeed

The huge storage box is the problem - you might be better with a 20-24 ft enclosed and have shelter too. .....

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He HAS shelter! he sleeps in that box! In there is an air conditioner, a big screen TV, a bed, a stereo, and a kitchen. )OK, I'm single so, to me a microwave IS a kitchen!) No kidding! Remember Harry Potter when they went to the Quiddich World Cup? And the little pup tent they stayed in?

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Originally Posted by JoshS

I can tell you that my 3-axle, 24' enclosed really doesn't tow any differently than any of the 2-axle trailers I've had before it.

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This is useful info. No ill effects from fuel mileage or anything else?

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Originally Posted by benspeed

Sell what you have on eBay for $2200-2800 and take that money towards a better trailer. End up with something with better resale than a modded up triple axle is that thing factory? kind rig...

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Better is all in the eye of the beholder. For me this trailer is perfect as it is exactly what I wanted. I've had enclosed trailers before but for my needs, storage space, usage, etc. this thing works great.

I don't see how adding another axle is going to help this situation. I am sorry to say it Ron, but you not have a lot of options. Only other thing you could do is put bigger weight distribution bars on.

Maybe something like this http://www.stingerhitch.com/
I thought there was something similar that mounted on the trailer tongue?
jerry

I just spent 2 hours on my driveway sun afternoon cleaning out my trailer. Mind you this was after I raced and drove home from Roebling. For sure I removed 200 plus pounds of crapola that I have been dragging around. My tool box alone had 15 3/8
drive rachets, 20 19mm sockets,7 extension cords,6 jack stands, hope that gives you
some idea of how much extra junk we carry and never really pay attention. I even had a honda 1000 watt generater tucked away, I always bring my 2000 watt but you see
what I mean. And guess what all this was in the nose of the trailer. I say go for a
little spring cleaning and see where you end up.

k

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Billiel

I don't see how adding another axle is going to help this situation. .

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Absolutely it will. Putting a third axle in front of the other two move the pivot point of the trailer forward thus taking a bit of weight off the tongue. We experimented with this using jacks and that does work. Not sure I want a third axle though.

We're going to try for some weight distribution that is within out boundary conditions and see how close we get to a "legal" weight. As I mentioned before, the trailer does great, it is just way above the maximum weights speced for the receiver and hitch.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

Absolutely it will. Putting a third axle in front of the other two move the pivot point of the trailer forward thus taking a bit of weight off the tongue. We experimented with this using jacks and that does work. Not sure I want a third axle though.

We're going to try for some weight distribution that is within out boundary conditions and see how close we get to a "legal" weight. As I mentioned before, the trailer does great, it is just way above the maximum weights speced for the receiver and hitch.

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Ahh.. my bad I was thinking you would put it behind the others.

Install 3rd axle in front of 1st axle, reducing tongue weight.

Remove rear axle, reducing turn-scrub radius issue.

Best of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

This is useful info. No ill effects from fuel mileage or anything else?

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Unfortunately I've got nothing to prove one way or the other because I never towed a similar 2-axle trailer with the same tow vehicle. But my mileage doesn't seem much different than other people with the Chevy/GMC 8.1 gasser. The only real negatives I can think of are 1) Replacing tires is 50% more expensive, 2) Maintenance (bearing lube, tire rotation) takes more time.

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Originally Posted by JohnRW

Install 3rd axle in front of 1st axle, reducing tongue weight.

Remove rear axle, reducing turn-scrub radius issue.

Best of both worlds.

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i think we have a winner:happy204:

Have you tried loading the car backwards to get the heavy end on the opposite side of the axles? It's amazing what a few hundred pounds of engine will do when you move it 10-12 ft.

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Originally Posted by Matt Rowe

Have you tried loading the car backwards to get the heavy end on the opposite side of the axles? It's amazing what a few hundred pounds of engine will do when you move it 10-12 ft.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

The Z is a 50/50 F/R balance car so loading it backward has no effect. Loading it a little further rearward helps but I can only go so far. So, I need a fix but have to stick with the following:Boundary conditions - solution must work with trailer as it is now. We're not cutting tire racks off, moving the box back two feet, putting stuff in the pickup bed, lengthening the rear of the trailer, putting on goose necks, and so on.

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Originally Posted by dickita15

i think we have a winner:happy204:

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I think so too.

You know, I could add the front axle and leave the rear one on the trailer, just remove the wheels.......

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

I think so too.

You know, I could add the front axle and leave the rear one on the trailer, just remove the wheels.......

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I think that would go too far in the other direction, plus that huge rear overhang is going to drag on everything.

I actually think your best move is sliding both axles forward slightly, not adding a third in the front. Effectively, adding one in the front and removing the rear one means that you'll be moving your rotation point forward 24"-30" and I don't think you're going to like that one bit. It's way too much. I don't think you need more than a foot.

Another option might be something like this.........
http://www.trailertoad.com/index.html

I'm sure there are cheaper versions out there. Or might be easy to make a "home-made" one to use.:shrug:

Wow, $3200 and it doesn't include the 'required" stabilizer bars!! Holy $hit!

It might be a cool solution, and basically, it's just the third axle Ron was thinking of, but in a swiveling position. Weld a front hitch and add a ball to the back. Seems simple.

I wonder how it is backing with the thing!?

Same idea as "con-gear" or "converter gear" articulating 5th-wheel semi-trailers. It's used for overside/overweight/extended loads (e.g., lumber, houses, heavy road equipment hauling) so that the truck itself does not carry a significant tongue weight.

Looks like the "Trailer Toad" has a couple of pivot pins you insert when straight-ahead to keep it from pivoting in reverse (20 degrees either way, normally.)

Pretty clever. Pricey, but clever. And a lot more flexible than a 5th-wheel hitch...

I wonder if you removed the ramps, how far back you could load the car? Otherwise, perhaps moving the axles forward a bit but that is some fab work and it may be easier to move the tire rack to the rear of the trailer.

Just lengthen the ramp straps so they secure at less then a 90. This gives room to move the car back and will decrease wind resistance from the ramps. You can put ramps down and experiment to see how far back you need to move the car to get the proper weight. Pepe.

Your Lightning is only rated to tow 5000 lbs too, and it does fine.

Maybe I'm too passe about it, but the thing toes fine as is. Maybe move as much weight back as is reasonably possible and call it a day.

Jeff

When the car is on the trailer, do you know how much weight the trailer tires are supporting? IF you do, do a simple calculation to see how far back the car would need to be moved to get your target tongue weight.

Or just put the ramps down and push the car back and measure the tongue weight. If it doesn't have to go back a ridiculous amount, just have the ramps lean back a bit, or remove the ramps and mount them on the opposite side similar to the bicycle.

I think that would be way easier than adding/moving axles.