Printable View
On another thread there was some talk about the usefulness of a DL-1 system.
I searched and found a Vorshalg DL-1 data acqusition system. Is this what you guys were referring to? If so I have a question-- in addition to the box what do you need as far as sensors are concerned??
I'm sure the discussion was about the Race Technology DL-1, a GPS & Accelerometer based data acquisition system.
http://race-technology.com/
What sensors are useful with data acquisition systems depends on the questions you are trying to answer. You can measure vehicle and driver performance with the basic DL-1 without any additional sensors. But if you're trying to monitor your engine parameters, then having RPM, a temperature sensor and an oil pressure sensor might be useful. If you are looking at driver technique, then throttle position, steering, and maybe brake pressure would be helpful.
Beyond that, what do you want to know? Suspension position? IR-tire temps? Airbox pressure?
David Ferguson
Veracity Racing Data
http://veracitydata.com
With only 3 years in SCCA seat time is key. I am told however that the addition of a DL-1 will enhance the learning. So I think at this time the basic stuff is what I need.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ferguson
You guys can also go in together and share a DL-1. All you'll need to do is buy a separate power cable (either a cig plug from Radio Shack or a pair of wires to hardwire it into your electrical system), and the proprietary plug that goes into the back of the DL-1. If you want to keep your GPS antenna permanently installed you'll need to buy one of those too (it's a magnetic base, but you may want to secure the wiring with tye-wraps and not bother with removing and replacing it between sessions when you're sharing).
The basic DL-1 comes with a two-axis accelerometer and GPS inputs; this by itself is EXTREMELY powerful information, and a good basic setup. From there you an easily input RPM (same place you take it off for an aftermarket tach) and a brake input wire (run a wire from the ground side of the brake light switch to the DL-1 input so you can see when you touch the brakes.) Just by adding these two inputs you've nearly doubled its usefulness (and they're the easiest ones to do.) Best inputs after that are throttle position (if you have a TPS you can take it off there) and steering input (usually something like a rotary pot on the steering shaft or a linear pot on the tie rods).
Then, when you become totally enamored with the product (and you will), you can add the DASH-3 display, giving you shift lights and input warnings.
My preferred vendor for DL-1 products, and the guy through which I do my coaching/data acq work, is Jeremy Lucas of FastTech Limited. Plus he's an ITA competitor and an all-around good guy...
http://www.fasttechlimited.com/
GA
Thanks GA I will speak with Denise and come up with a plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
As somebody who DOESN't work for Jeremy, I have to agree with tGA statement. He is an awesome dude to deal with.:birra:Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Amy
"I have yet to turn a wheel on track without improvement since starting to use the DL1 system." - Greg, SCCA National Driver
Cool system! If it can make you Purple Crack fast on komho V700s, I am getting it!
how would you rate a DL-1 system v.s. say a traqmate?
DL-1 has a distinct advantage in the Northeast, regardless of its technology: there are s**t-ton of folks up here using it. As such, you will learn scads more by comparing your data to others, and having local folks versed in how to read, interpret, and react to the data.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadzjr
GA
Said differently- use whatever is around you. in SFR tin tops, its mostly AIM data units, NE seesm to be DL-1.
If the title of this thread was 'data aquisition' instead of DL-1, I would offer the Race-Keeper data and Video acquisition system. Three axis accelerometer, GPS based, up to 4 camera inputs, 8 analog inputs, wireless dash display, 3D video capability and 15 minute installation without drilling holes.
Just named Official Video Data system for World Challange for 2010, 2011, and 2012.
www.race-keeper.com
1st, everything tGA said is spot on. DL1 is some serious goodness and Jeremy Lucas is the MAN when it comes to data aq and data interpretation.
I've had both. Started with the Traqmate and then "upgraded" to the DL-1. The Traqmate is, IMO, easier and faster to get started with but ultimately more limited. Less options on how to look at and interpret the data and there's no ability to add a DASH2 or DASH3 into the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by quadzjr
I am in the northeast and have had an AIM Pista for three years and have yet to find anyone to share data to compare. If I had the resources I would buy the DL1 as everyone I talk to is running it!
I wonder how useful having the same system as everyone else is when no one has the same car as you do? Also, since the region owns one of the tracks we race there over 50% of our season, but this track is multi-configurable. So, when you get data you'd have to ask was that 13 cw, 13A cw, 13 ccw, or 13A ccw, or was that 14.... 15.... 16.... or 18.... so getting multiple sets of data for the same configuration can be problematic. Kind of reminds me of the time Greg was asking for data for Rusty's track in Iowa. Did you ever get any data for that track Greg?
WHile he doesn't have the exact same car as everyone else, he's got the same motor as others, and he races on the same track. TONS of DL1 files on LRP.
I'd get a DL1 from Jeremy if I were buying new here in the NE. Heck, he's been helpful to me, an early adopter AIM guy.
It's still very, very helpful, especially when looking at someone faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3_GoCar
Dan, one thing to consider if buying one and sharing is that you guys will be on track at the same time. Used ones pop up once in awhile. You might even check in with Jeremy in case someone is upgrading.
Very. A data acq device is more than just something to spit out hard numbers for comparison, it's much more useful as a way to compare driving techniques and styles. Give me two files, one from an ITC car/driver and one from an ITR, and I'll make both drivers faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3_GoCar
I did, but that situation was different: what I was looking for there was just a single lap so I could place track markers for the .LAP file for the DASH-2. That way the drivers had lap and sector times in the car during the first practice session... - GAQuote:
Did you ever get any data for [Iowa] Greg?
Good info, Thanks
I will check this all out as a DA system seems to be a key area we have not yet become involved with.
Although our cars are not used much the engine and suspension system is all Mazada so we can compare somewhat to others.
+1 to the "use what others in your class use".
I have a DL1. While Traqmate seems to be prevalent in the SE, some very fast drivers with DL1 have shared data with me and its made me faster. I've also made myself faster with my own data. I almost wouldn't bother going on track without it. (edit: I mean in a test day. I don't think I've even looked down at my display during a hard race, but would probably rather not put wear and tear on the car on a test session without data, as I couldn't have quantitative evidence on what the changes to the car/driving did)
If I was in SM, I'd have Traqmate as the majority of SM people I've seen use Traqmate.
The other advantage of the DL1 is the ability to add the Dash2 system into your car, eliminating your gauges and all that crap in favor for a digital display.
-Tom
I don't know what other people are running in IT cars in So-Pac, a couple that I talked to, such as Darin and Naji are only running lap timers, but two features that I like about the Dl-1 is the accelerometer pack and the Rs-232 connection. I could hook my TecII up to the rs-232 and read the throttle position and rpm directly and log it. I could also hook all 4 wheel speed sensors up and get brake slide or wheel spin. Sounds to me that the only person I have to compare data with is myself at this point, so I can see the usefulness, but it's not as usefull as it could be to bring me up to speed.
I have a friend who run an AIM system, but he drives a FC, so how useful would that data be?
Thanks for the kind words guys. :D
Happy to answer any specific questions or help you find the system that best fits your needs (even if it's one of the ones I don't carry); my contact info is on my website.
You also can't go wrong talking with Mr Furgeson.
I have used a Traqmate for the last 2 seasons and have found it very useful to analyze my own performance, even if not comparing it to others. The same could be said for any of the units mentioned. Was I faster in a certain turn by braking later and harder or scrubbing speed more gradually? Or was a faster or slower day to day, and in which segments am I gaining or losing. By merging it with video, you can take a look at a certain line. Traqmate has predictive lap timing which is nice for qualifying - you can see if you're already off your prior pace you can make a decision on what to do with the rest of the lap. One thing I don't like about TM is that it costs an extra $200 for a Traqdata which allows you 4 analog, 2 digital and one rpm input. It's adequate but not thorough if you want throttle, brake pressure, steering, and then add a couple of gauges. It's a good unit, easy to use and they are always upgrading the software. Any of these units mentioned will do what a TM does, so if it comes down to a decision I agree with the other comments go with the one used mostly in your class or region. I'm a huge fan of using data to improve driving technique. Hope that helps.
AJ.....the best aquisition device for the over 60 crowd(me for one) is charging our pacemakers before qualifying...LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by shlowone
Dan: FYI, SCCA just announced that Race-Keeper will be the official video/data system for SCCA PRO World Challange for the next three years and all cars will be required to carry this system. So, if you plan to race World Challange........:D
Dan, you'd be crazy not to get a DL1 based on the knowledge base of the people you know and are at the track. Kessler, Amy, Flatout, and many others.
Thanks for the vote of confidence racing pro but not yet this year.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerBill
Based upon all the drivers who have DL-1 in my region and all the help offered I will go DL-1.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Dan: With the number of racers in the NE using DL-1, I would say that is your best choice at this time.
I think you are right. I will take your advice on the DL-1. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by RacerBill
Be sure to visit Jeremy's website. He has some great info to get started using the DL-1. I started using the DL-1 last year and enjoyed learning it. Then in the fall I went to the ARRC and got some data from other guys who had ran Road Atlanta. Seeing the data easily cut hours of seat-of-the-pants learning.