Is there anyone who drives Fiero's? I could sure use some tips! :D
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Is there anyone who drives Fiero's? I could sure use some tips! :D
the later cars look good. Can the v/6 run in IT? I know the 4 bangers were the iron Duke engine and i was told that there was a marine engine of the same type that made more hp.
There's a guy here in the Atlanta area that races one in ITA. I think I've seen him post a couple times on the forum. May want to try a search and see if you can find his name.
David
That would be me as I haven't seen anyother Fieros on the track at RA lately. I race an 88 Formula in ITA. This is my third year as a driver/builder/rebuilder etc. The car is still in the development stage as is the driver. With each race we have been getting faster. Not shure how much improvement is driver and how much is car. I started with RA lap times in the 2:15 to 2:20 range. My last outing I managed a 1:53. I've made a couple of changes since then, and the car ran better at Nashville compared to the compitition. It is my guess that a well prepared Fiero with a very good driver can run in the front third of the pack. The Fiero would probably do much better on a shorter hp type track. Send me a pm, and I will help as much as I can.
Chuck
ITA #34
Chuck's car looked good at CMP in May. It appears to me, just watching it, that the V6 Fiero has potential.
John Lundquist (sp?) built an ITA Fiero last year and has run it at VIR and Lowes some this year (I know Jeff has raced against it). The Fiero has potential, but there are limitations.
First and formost, I wouldn't recomend using the 4cyl car in any class. While the motor is mechanically capable of producing god awefull amounts of HP... these options are IT legal. The weight same or similar to the V6 cars.
If you are going to choose a V6 car, I would go with the '86 or '87 SE with a wing delete rear deck. Intial reaction would be to go with the '88 for it's purpose built suspension and while this is really nice, it adds some expense to the setup (the only year/model for hubs, rotors and the like in GM's lineup). The earlier suspension can be bult to peroform nearly as well as the later... except for he bump stear in the rear. The '88 cars had a purpose built suspension that accomidated for the bump stear with some additional tie rods and a better placement of the struts. The also did away with the Citation control arms.
Among the Fiero crowd, it is a comon assumption that the earlier cars had a better front suspension that the later, and the later had a better rear setup. The ideal situation is to use the '88 cradle on the 86 or 87 platform... except the SCCA won't let you do this since you have to relocated the mounting holes for the struts.
I never raced one, although I owned one for 17 years, but I have a fair aomunt of understanding with these cars. Who knows... watching John go around VIR with his car is giving me the itch to build one.
There is a wealth of knowledge on the web and I beleive a Fiero racing news group too. Hope I helped and didn't ramble too much.
hoop
Count me in the Fiero team - building one for a winter project since my other car is done.
Any spare racing stuff - shoot me an email
[email protected]
Thanks,
Ben....if you want I'll shoot some pics of the dude who has registered to run the ARRcs in ITA.
Anyone know much about his program?
Since this is a Fiero thread, I'll throw out the following classified ad from the Indy Region website.
http://www.indyscca.org/information/Classi...lassifieds.html
Thanks Jake - that would be excellent. Keen to see how this guys does. The car I have is very fresh and should be very quick (I hope) It'll lay down some stripes on the pavement nicely.Quote:
Ben....if you want I'll shoot some pics of the dude who has registered to run the ARRcs in ITA.
Anyone know much about his program?
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A yellow ITB Fiero driven by Michael Braidman from IN set the Blackhawk Farms track record on October 29th. That 2.5 liter seems to have gobs of torque out of the corners - no surprise there.
The more I think about it, this may be a very good car for the class.
I think that Michael runs more Midwest Council than SCCA.
Sweet! I think this car will really run with a full development program. Most of the cars I've seen are not even close to a 10/10ths effort. I'm pretty lucky that most of the expensive stuff is already done on my car except a set of coil overs and the cage.
:024:
I googled this guy but got dead links to the race results - anybody have a link?
Here are the race results I was referring to:
results page
mylaps
Thanks Chris - I left him a message through MyLaps.
Cheers,
bp
PS - Not sure I'd go with that mustang on the Fiero Vs. Mustang thread.
Thought I'd share my ARRC expierence. Basic car setup Hoosier 225/45R15, 31 psi to start, -1* camber 5* caster and zero toe up front. -1.5 camber and zero toe rear. 350# front srings and 275# rears. Car weighed 2679 with full fuel and driver. THe handling improved ove the previous set up, but the 275# rear springs proved too soft for Road Atlanta. THe left rear would bottom out in 1, 7, 10b, and hit really solid at the dip in 12. 12 was so bad that the car would stop turning creating a double apex. The best we were able to get with this setup was 1:51.
It was a unique weekend problems aside. My driving partner drove the ProIT where he scored the 1:51. He finished 34th. I drove the ARRC. I fouled a plug and lost a cylinder in lap ten which forced me to retire from the race. I finished 34th. All this in car # 34. Anybody out there willing to trade for number 1? LOL. My best time for the weekend was a 1:54, and that was on hoosiers with 11 heat cycles, and the car bottoming out as indicated above.
I had a hair raising expierence going into turn one early in the race. The throttle pedal stuck on the floor when i lifted for braking. I left foot braked, pried the pedal loose with my right toe and turned in at almost full speed. I managed to keep it on track until just before the top of the hill where the two left wheels got into the grass. I managed to gather it up and get back on track in time for two. Still haven't found out what or why it stuck. The cable appears to be ok so I will be replacing the pivot block.
The ARRC weekend was a blast. Looking forward to next year. Now if only i can trade for a smaller number.
Chuck
88 Pontiac Fiero
ITA #34
I'll vouch for that...I was behind him in 12 once, and left a little extra room...it didn't look like a comfortable setup!Quote:
...., and hit really solid at the dip in 12. 12 was so bad that the car would stop turning creating a double apex. .... .
Chuck
88 Pontiac Fiero
ITA #34
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When I first read your setup I instantly questioned the rear springs as too soft, but I know NOTHING about Fieros. But reading that, and from my visual impression, it adds up.
Thanks for the comfirmation. The car is in the early stages of development. I had initially set the car up with 425# rear springs to keep the inside front tire from lifting. They proved too heavy and made the car very twitchey. I went with the 275s on the advise of an expierenced Fiero racer who used data aqusition to arrive at that rate. They may work at tracks like CMP, but were too soft for RA. I have ordered a set of 300 and 325# rear springs. Budget doesen't allow for track rental for tuning, so it will be done at the next few events.
Chuck
Thanks for the info on the spring rates. I have opted for 300/300 setup for a starter foundation but plan on burning some more $$ on springs and might go with 350 and 400 increments.
What are you going to do for the bottoming out?
Hey Guys,
I'll be campaigning an ITA Fiero in the CenDiv-Ooops Great Lakes Div. I bought Steve Perkins '87 Fiero GT. He ran it at Waterford. It seems pretty well sorted, but I don't know a thing about Fieros so any and all help is appreciated! I've been racing a GP Midget the past 6 years so this will be a big change - going to a car thats 2x's the weight, with DOT tires.
I've been looking for an IT car for a few months and when I saw the Fiero I said to myself 'that should be fun!' I'm a RWD person.
From reading this thread it seems like the car can be competitive with seat-time and development.
Peter Baumgartner
The Fieros are coming out of the woodwork....lol..you go guys.....I always liked that car....
Quote:
The Fieros are coming out of the woodwork....lol..you go guys.....I always liked that car....
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How 'bout "Spec Fiero" :023:
Jeff,
Ther Fiero was listed with 135 HP (they later changed the way it was determined and was listed at 140, but it was the same 135) and 170 lbs of torque. They were quick for the day, 8.5 sec to 60 mph, top end was in the 140 range.
A well built motor with a trick cam and roller rockers could net you in the neighborhood of 190-210 HP. I think that in IT trim it should be possible to get 155 HP, maybe a bit more.
Weight distribution is close to 45/55. I think you could get that a little closer to 50/50 with a fuel cell. The GCR allows you to put the cell up front in midengine cars... and doesn't stipulate removal of the original tank. So, one could wind up with close to the max allowable 25 gal for enduro's :D. Stock cell is behind the shifter in the console.
I bring my Fiero to the dyno for tuning next week with several different types of exhaust to see what works best and some different chips. But I swear I'm not really putting out a real effort to get this car fast - its just for kicks! (actually the dyno test must be good or I will not put a cage in the car)
I will not post my numbers unless bribes are made. :birra: (BEER IS ACCEPTABEL)
Hey Benspeed I live in Danville,VA. about 15 min from VIR. post the hp # and i will buy you a beer if you run the car in my neck of the woods. I would even help as crew so i can get a good look at your set up. i knew for some reason i should have gotten one when it was just laying there asking to be hauled off.Quote:
I bring my Fiero to the dyno for tuning next week with several different types of exhaust to see what works best and some different chips. But I swear I'm not really putting out a real effort to get this car fast - its just for kicks! (actually the dyno test must be good or I will not put a cage in the car)
I will not post my numbers unless bribes are made. :birra: (BEER IS ACCEPTABEL)
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I have a dirt track friend who knows a lot about these cars/engines so maybe i can pick his brain some for some legal hp on the thing. You may have to buy me a beer for the info. :birra:
Lawrence
Anyone want to help with where to put the tow rings on the front and rear? I'm at a loss. I'd love to go right out the sunroof.
Peter B.
'87 Fiero GT
That torque number is strong. The car be a contendah...
Hey Lawrence - I'll PM you with the numbers and you send me a beers of the world gift pack!?!
Jeff - you sound like a guy from Jerzey
I just have doubts on the handling, but as our friend Andy says - if you can make the power that is the harder half - getting the handling right is much more doable.
I'm putting together an array of springs and already have two sets of sway bars for this car too. What I really need is an engineer who knows what they are doing. Andy is happy to help.......but then he'll know all my tricks!
I bet I would find Greg lurking around on a test day too - maybe I should hire Greg's engineer away - my beer is colder than his anyway.
I'll have to go down south to test under a shroud of secrecy. I'll hire Mattberg to run my PR campaign over why the Fiero needs to be 500 lbs lighter and can run 17 inch rims.
Dude, you'll post your numbahs here in public like the rest of the men on this forum, and you'll shut up about it. Otherwise I'll go put my japcar on a DynoJet and make you fruity GM guys look really silly...
DYNO WARS!!!!
Recognize that Kessler is more of a racing slut than I am: for a carton of cigarettes and six-pack of Monster you could probably have him dancing nekked on the hood (I think I just hurt my brain with that visual...)
yeah, any pictures like that should be kept to yourself, it doesnt bode well if your reading this site and eating lunch at the same time.
I thought with the 88's suspension, you had most of your problems cured? And, if you can put the cell up front, the weight distribution issue goes away.
But for the fact this is a GM product, on paper it sure seems like a better A car than the Mk.II MR2. 170 ft lbs is STRONG for A. Real strong.
Hoop, could you please cite this? It's not a challenge; it's a request for info...Quote:
The GCR allows you to put the cell up front in midengine cars... and doesn't stipulate removal of the original tank.[/b]
That got my attention as well. Section 19 stipulates the basics for cars that require cells, and even there, it says nothing about location other than the 12" rule.
The ITCS also says nothing about front allowances for mid engine cars.....but allows you to replace[b] the stock tank with a cell within 12". IF that new location encroaches the driver compartment, you must construct a metal bulkhead, and the cell must be 6" above ground unless it's located within bodywork or the original floorpan.
I see nowhere that the rule allows stock AND new cells to co-exist, and no any rule that allows you to locate the cell more than 12" from the stock tank (perimeter to perimeter), except the notes on the spec line for certain BMWs.
All I gotta say is I was behind (right behind) Chuck's car at the ARRC and he pulled me by 2 car lengths or so down the back straight. I'd start to close towards the end of the straight with a little more top end, but he pulled me off the corner. My exits were cleaner as it looked like he pushed a bit through the corner. My engine is tired with 2 seasons on it, but it's a full built motor. Take that for what's it worth.
David
ok... ok... i may have been wrong. for some reason, i thought the fiero had the same line note stipulating a "trunk mounted fuel cell may be added" that was noted for the Fiat X 1/9. i will have to go back and dig up some old GCR's to see if they changed that. with the fiat, i was told by someone with "authorotay" that the trunk mount could go in the front. my bad.
Ben... you gotta post the numbers, so we can see. I would make the jump... probably more for 2008 than 07, if I thought it was doable. What have you done to the motor? Have you freshend it at all, or is it original?
Jeff... the consensus has been that the pre '88's had a good enough front suspension (perhaps a touch better), the '88's had a better rear suspension design. There are ways to improve both effectively. I don't think the car will pivot like a Miata, but that remains to be seen.
hoop
Saw this on eBay. # 260059917680
Beer for numbers. :birra: (I'll post to my other mid-engine compadres!)
I'm very intersted to learn what folks say about the fuel cell up front. That was something I was considering to improve the balance of the car.
Ben, I've gone through the rules again, and I can't find any allowance for fuel tank in the front of mid-engine cars. HOWEVER, the rule does state that the fuel cell must be "within 12 inches of original location."
I clarified that with Sven Pruett several years ago, and it's been confirmed by others, that if any part of the old tank is within any part of the new fuel cell - in other words, if you can take a 1-foot school ruler and touch any part of both concurrently, ignoring firewalls, panels, and such - then it's a legal installation. An illustration of this is Serra's installation of a fuel cell where the passenger seat was in Lorenzo's CRX.
So, it all boils down to where your stock fuel tank is. From reading above, someone said the Fiery's fuel tank was near the shifter? Get under there and find it, then see if you can install a fuel cell in the "frunk" within 12 inches of it. If so, you're set.
And don't forget to remove the original fuel tank; the rules specifically say "replace", not install... - GA
Ben, I considered such an idea with my RX-7, and I actually COULD have gotten it ahead of the drive axle and met the requirements, but my engineer friends said no, not a good idea.
But, I would imagine that you could move it into the pass footwell area and still be within 12" of the original perimeter. Might help offset driver weight a bit. Of course, getting the car on the scales would be a prudent starting point. Also, any ballast you need can go up to the front of the footwell as well.
The factory fuel tank in a Fiero is in the tunnel between the the seats. It is a torpedo shaped tank and extends from the front firewall to the rear firewall. A front mounted cell is well within the 12" rule.
Chuck
Hi Chuck - I figured you might chime in on this.
Any chance you could post a pic of what the install looks like? I still have some key things to check off my list before I put a cage in the car but I might go for the cell install at the same time the cage is being installed.
Thanks to all for the rules confirmation - beyond helpful - my luck I'd be 13 inches away. Anybody remember when Kip lost the ARRC for weight installed improperly in the footwell of his bimmer?
Hey Greg - any real thought on the MR2?