http://www.midiv.org/Code/Calendar.htm
bonus race at st louis :bash_1_:
memorial day at memphis :bash_1_:
1 race during june (national only at HPT), but 7 during July and August :bash_1_:
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http://www.midiv.org/Code/Calendar.htm
bonus race at st louis :bash_1_:
memorial day at memphis :bash_1_:
1 race during june (national only at HPT), but 7 during July and August :bash_1_:
Travis,
I agree, not very good. I have raised concerns with Chuck Clark and he told me that several items like the bonus race are yet to be decided. There is a meeting scheduled for 11/30 that shoudl firm up next year.
I would urge you to chime in with your concerns. Here is what i see specific to HPT and KVRG:
* A drivers school the following weekend after the StL super school
* No restricted IT race in conjunction with the HPT Nationals and nothing scheduled that would allow these points to be recovered.
Of course the regions are at the mercy of the tracks that they deal with but there are number instances where events are stacked together in a manner that will guarantee two poorly attended races.
i have also contacted Chuck Clark regarding the schedule.
I don't think the no IT race in conjuction with the national is such a big deal, but the drivers school and bonus race i agree with you on.
you going to be at creekside for the annual meeting?
Yep, I'll be there.
Not sure about tonight's race group meeting. I may be helping David Long pick up his EP car from the body shop.
What I would really like to discuss is a way to enhance Regional races so participation goes up. Putting on money loosing events is not healthy for the sponsor regions or the racers.
i'm with you 100% Scott. i think we need to try and do something to bump interest in regional competition (specifically IT, as it is often the point of entry for all racers), i've been thinking of an endurance series to take the place of the IT tour....but i dunno. i don't think i'll make it tonight either as i have to prepare for my trip back to MN tomorrow, but i will be at the annual. i'll try and track you down, i'll be the tall guy hanging around the johnsons and probably the youngest guy in attendance.
"bonus race at st louis memorial day at memphis"
Travis, what's your problem w/ these events? Memorial weekend is a tradition of many years here at Memphis and will remain so. The Bonus Race alternates among the various tracks/Regions. Frankly, it is generally a money loser and not everyone is itching to host it.
my problem with st louis is that it sucks as a track. personally, i also hate it cause it's a helluva drive for me, but what's bad for me is good for somebody else. i did my double school and first SCCA race at st louis 3yrs ago, and i haven't driven it since. there's lots of concrete in close proximity to the track, and it heavily favors cars with big HP rather than driving ability. hardly the ideal location to hold what turns out to be the championship race for regional drivers.
my problem with memphis on memorial day is i think the division loses out on a lot of entries having it out there. memorial day weekend gives the opportunity to draw out of division entries who have long trips to get there. people need a good reason to travel a long way to race, such as a great track (RA, Laguna, VIR, etc) or a big event (first national at the runoffs site). memphis provides neither. it is a lowly attended event no matter what you do, and i feel like the division is losing out on a lot of opportunity. the financial sustainability of the club should take precedent over a specific region's preference.
Personally, there are too many race weekends on the calendar no matter how you slice it. I can not say this enough times: there are only "X" number of entries to be had in a division (obviously not looking at out-of-division drivers), and by having too many races, it just dilutes the population at any given event, as well as the worker pool. Give drivers too many options and they will pick and choose, and somebody is going to get the short end of the stick.
But trying to get any race organization to give up a race weekend is worse then pulling teeth.
I do have a real problem with two races for points in the division on the same day at different tracks, regardless of the locations. Isn't that the whole point of working together? So that the calendar is NOT conflicted?
Travis,
I'm not going to argue all of your points, as I'm uneducated in all of them. But I love to go to Memphis on Memorial Day. I pass up a race at TWS the same weekend and the same distance from me to go to race with you guys. There will always be a subscription problem at all race tracks on Memorial and Labor Day weekends. There are just too many things to take our time and attention...not too mention all the racing opportunities. When I go to Memphis, besides usually having a class, I have fun racing and partying with all you guys...more so than I do in SOWDIV. Plus, I get two days of racing, something they don't seem to have the luxury of down here.
That's just a couple of cents (sense) worth of comments.
Lesley,Quote:
Personally, there are too many race weekends on the calendar no matter how you slice it. I can not say this enough times: there are only "X" number of entries to be had in a division (obviously not looking at out-of-division drivers), and by having too many races, it just dilutes the population at any given event, as well as the worker pool. Give drivers too many options and they will pick and choose, and somebody is going to get the short end of the stick.
But trying to get any race organization to give up a race weekend is worse then pulling teeth.
I do have a real problem with two races for points in the division on the same day at different tracks, regardless of the locations. Isn't that the whole point of working together? So that the calendar is NOT conflicted?
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You couldn't be more correct.
agreed. our division is way too big with too many dates. we span from western nebraska to memphis, and now we have a race in nashville or something? i don't know how many miles that is, but i'm guessing it's a 15hr drive just from the nebraska track to memphis. does anyone else see this as absurd?
and you're right albin, you'll never get a region to give up an event. it is my personal opinion that memphis should go to the new CenDiv (or apparantly maybe SOW), and the new one in western nebraska should go to Rocky Mtn. we've got topeka, omaha, hallet, st louis, and now des moines (with a good shot of another one popping up next year). that's more than enough tracks to field a full schedule.
charrbq i'm really glad you enjoy our division's race at memphis, but i stand by all my prior statements.
So, Travis, when it comes down to it, your complaint about the Bonus Race at St. Louis and the Memorial weekend race at Memphis is not about scheduling but w/ the fact that you just don't like those tracks. Know what? Not a damn thing you or we can do about that. Using your logic I guess we would never have a race at either! That one track may be a HP one and another a handling one is one of the reasons the Bonus Race alternates. Another is to spread it around geographically. It evens out over the years. You think I was happy about the Bonus Race at MAM these last 2 years?
So what are you saying about Memorial weekend - that the event would get a better turnout on some other weekend? That weekend this year you had your choice of Memphis, New Hampshire, Kershaw (SC), Grattan, or Texas World. I don't think we lose many entries to those tracks.
um, well, we could not have the bonus race at St Louis, that's what we can do about it. Honestly, do you think entries will be higher or lower at St. Louis for the bonus race regional and non-points regional weekend then at the school/enduro/bonus race at MAM?Quote:
So, Travis, when it comes down to it, your complaint about the Bonus Race at St. Louis and the Memorial weekend race at Memphis is not about scheduling but w/ the fact that you just don't like those tracks. Know what? Not a damn thing you or we can do about that. [/b]
no, we need to have races at st louis. lots of members are there and i've seen some decent turnouts, though i'm not sure if or how profitable they are. memphis, as i said above, i think needs to rehome to CenDiv. the ideal location for a "championship race" is one that doesn't favor any particular vehicle. kinda like how the bowl games, super bowl, NCAA tournament, etc, are all played at neutral sites. I think MAM is the most neutral site we have, and is relatively central to everyone.Quote:
Using your logic I guess we would never have a race at either! That one track may be a HP one and another a handling one is one of the reasons the Bonus Race alternates. Another is to spread it around geographically. It evens out over the years. You think I was happy about the Bonus Race at MAM these last 2 years?
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you right, we hardly lose any entries that weekend having that race at Memphis. there's no reason to tow a long distance to race there. however, hold the first national of the year at HPT, and now you've got people towing in from long distances, higher attendence at the test day, etc. bottom line, the division is maximizing their $ potential. we won't have the runoffs forever, we should milk it as best we can for the next 5yrs.Quote:
So what are you saying about Memorial weekend - that the event would get a better turnout on some other weekend? That weekend this year you had your choice of Memphis, New Hampshire, Kershaw (SC), Grattan, or Texas World. I don't think we lose many entries to those tracks.
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Travis,
I can tell you I was pretty upset that the bonus race was at MAM last year, that is a heck of a drive for us and I am not particularly fond of the track.
I love having the Memorial Day Race in Memphis, we have such a good time and Jude really enjoys that track.
Going to Nashville might be a long drive but I think we should be happy to have so many tracks to choose from. When we were in Texas we really only had TMS and Corpus Christi once in awhile.
We are pretty lucky in the MidWest.
However, that said, there are just too many events. There are only so many racers to go around but eventually, the market will set everything right and the races that are undersubscribed will fade away.
Personally my objections to the schedule are not based on where the events are being held. Instead I have a problem with the way they are arranged on the calendar.
For example, the Memphis race on Memorial Day weekend could really be a draw for much of the Division however there is a MAM R/N the weekend prior. What this creates, potentially, are two poorly attended races in a row. The drivers in the western part of the division are likely going to go to MAM and skip Memphis. Drivers in St Louis and east will likely circle Memphis and skip MAM. In the MidWest Division there just aren't that many racers to go around.
Oh and the schedule gets worse later in the year where there are 4 races in 4 weekends....DUMB!
Yes, there are two many races scheduled. How do we make the regions wise up....they won't until they loose their asses financially. Then we are all screwed.
Reagrading St Louis and the bonus race - the race has been there in the past and it did okay. The double regiona that they always have in October usually draws pretty well as long as Ced Div doesn't have a race the same weekend at Black Hawk.
What about this:
* We eliminate the Regional/National format
* All events are Regional only or National only
* Have fewer events or have Double Nationals at poorly attended venues
Comments:
National events in Mid Div will draw well as long as they are scheduled so they are not competing with one another and the Run Offs are at HPT. All Regional events will be Doubles or School Regionals and will include a PDX/Club Trials/Track Trials run group(s) to bolster numbers.
Think about what that would do in the Memphis/MAM example I mentioned above. If the MAM event was a Double Regional and the Memphis race is a National only then the two dates are competeing for a different driver.
What do you think?
I completely understand that what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander. my personal distaste for st louis and memphis, and your personal distaste for MAM should be irrelevant. what matters is participation #'s and financial sustainability.
i don't think that St. Louis bonus race and Memphis memorial day is in the best financial interests of the club, that's all.
scott -
it's a good idea, but i'm not sure it would solve the problem. I think then you'd have everyone fighting over the national race weekends, and nobody would want to host the regional only events. i know we don't like the idea that we're "second class," but i'm pretty sure the school/regional/pdx weekends are money losers. remember topeka last year?
yes, i'm with you 100% on how poorly the dates are arranged though. there are forces working beneath the surface that have influenced this though.
Travis,Quote:
scott -
it's a good idea, but i'm not sure it would solve the problem. I think then you'd have everyone fighting over the national race weekends, and nobody would want to host the regional only events. i know we don't like the idea that we're "second class," but i'm pretty sure the school/regional/pdx weekends are money losers. remember topeka last year?
yes, i'm with you 100% on how poorly the dates are arranged though. there are forces working beneath the surface that have influenced this though.
[/b]
I feel like less of a "second class citizen" at a Double Regional that provides lots of competition, decent track time and no chance that my regional run group will be cancelled if National races run long or get delayed (this has happened).
Here is the concept - having fewer Regional races will make the ones that are held more profitable.
With respect to scheduling, giving the regions a choice between two different event types means that they can schedule events in ways that help ensure good participation for every event that they put on. The fact is that organizations like KVRG are willing to put on known money losing events on the HOPE that two big National weekends will bail them out. To my thinking this is a bad busness policy and and a member of the KC region I don't like my money wasted or wagered in this way. And be very clear on this....when the National Races fail to make a year profitable which races will groups like KVRG and MVRG cut? The Regional races.
From an IT racers perspective is there not much difference between a Regional/National that offers a Restricted Regional on Sunday and a Double Regional. If you seperate Regional and National races you creare a distinction that makes it clear where an IT racer is going to go with his car. It should make IT racing better and that is important to all of us.
The alternative is to elminate Regional Only classes and give everyone that races, pays dues, builds a car, and buys tires the same chance in this club. Oh, and I know you don't like this idea so you don't have to comment.
i've never felt second class even at nationals, but yes, i agree with you 100%. see my previous unpopular comments regarding relocation of memphis and hastings.Quote:
Travis,
I feel like less of a "second class citizen" at a Double Regional that provides lots of competition, decent track time and no chance that my regional run group will be cancelled if National races run long or get delayed (this has happened).
Here is the concept - having fewer Regional races will make the ones that are held more profitable.
[/b]
it may be wrong, but here's my understanding of this situation;Quote:
With respect to scheduling, giving the regions a choice between two different event types means that they can schedule events in ways that help ensure good participation for every event that they put on. The fact is that organizations like KVRG are willing to put on known money losing events on the HOPE that two big National weekends will bail them out. To my thinking this is a bad busness policy and and a member of the KC region I don't like my money wasted or wagered in this way. And be very clear on this....when the National Races fail to make a year profitable which races will groups like KVRG and MVRG cut? The Regional races.
[/b]
the money LOSING events are/were the driver's school weekends at MAM and HPT, specifically the one at HPT in the dead of summer. there's some arrangement (which i don't remember the details of) that every track has to put on at least one driver's school per year. even though the specific event is a money loser, it's probably profitable in the long run as a result of gaining new drivers. all the other events at MAM and HPT are profitable. i don't really see this scenario changing. i think what KVRG/MVRG/DMVR or whomever has done a fantastic job of is finding a way to make the school weekend a success through the annual 2hr enduro. i've been involved in it every year since they started and it is a TON of fun. KVRG/MVRG/KCR has started having the PDX stuff on our school weekends which i think is also a good idea. tack on another 20 or so entries and it turns your event from a loss to a break-even or slightly better scenario, all the while adding members and potential future drivers/workers.
but, as we've both said before, the situation could be further improved by cutting down the schedule.
for the most part your right, but i certainly take the Mid-Am races more seriously than the IT Tour races. i'm not in favor of going national, but we've been over that.Quote:
From an IT racers perspective is there not much difference between a Regional/National that offers a Restricted Regional on Sunday and a Double Regional. If you seperate Regional and National races you creare a distinction that makes it clear where an IT racer is going to go with his car. It should make IT racing better and that is important to all of us.
The alternative is to elminate Regional Only classes and give everyone that races, pays dues, builds a car, and buys tires the same chance in this club. Oh, and I know you don't like this idea so you don't have to comment.
[/b]
will i finally get a chance to introduce myself at the annual meeting on tuesday?
"um, well, we could not have the bonus race at St Louis, that's what we can do about it. Honestly, do you think entries will be higher or lower at St. Louis for the bonus race regional and non-points regional weekend then at the school/enduro/bonus race at MAM?"
Why on earth should St. Louis be eliminated from the Bonus Race rotation? What I am getting from you is some of the most selfish opinion I think I have read on this forum. You want to eliminate St. Louis as a Bonus Race site solely because you don't like the track [I totalled a car there so don't tell me about it.]. You want Memphis to go into the CenDiv, which makes no geographic sense (SE maybe), because you don't want to have to race here because you don't like the track. And may it have anything to do w/ the fact that you live on the other side of the Division? Geez. Yes, FWIW I think St. Louis will have more entries than MAM. But it matters not.
"the ideal location for a "championship race" is one that doesn't favor any particular vehicle. kinda like how the bowl games, super bowl, NCAA tournament, etc, are all played at neutral sites. I think MAM is the most neutral site we have, and is relatively central to everyone."
How convenient that the track that you like and is close to you is the most neutral. Central - are you kidding me? Long ago the Division concluded that the most unfair advantage was not the type of track but "home field." Rotating the venue takes that out of the equation over the years. Division champions should be drivers who race well at all of the tracks in the Division. Because of its NON-central location some Mid-Am championships this year were "won" at MAM because there was hardly any competition. That is certainly not optimal.
"hold the first national of the year at HPT, and now you've got people towing in from long distances, higher attendence at the test day, etc."
Since you don't come to Memphis I can't expect you to know this but FYI people DO tow long distances to Memphis for that event, it is always our best-attended one of the season, we had like 70 cars on the test day, and it basically funds the rest of the season for us.
"bottom line, the division is maximizing their $ potential. we won't have the runoffs forever, we should milk it as best we can for the next 5yrs."
Travis, you seem to be under a misconception. The Division is not a profit center. It does not put on races, it does not pay for races; it is the umbrella under which the separate Regions operate. If you think overall revenue from events in the Division would go up by switching some of the events around, would you be willing to have a profit-sharing pool to be divided among the Regions? Otherwise, why should any Region give up profitable events so some other Region can make more?
I participated in the scheduling process last year and was taken aback w/ how difficult it is. Things like track availability, weather, tradition, and extra-Division events like the June Sprints, leave surprisingly very few flexible dates. There is a lot of give and take and compromise and, I promise you, if there are near-conflicts, there was a good reason why it turned out that way. (E.g. perhaps MVRG did not want to have their May MAM event 2 weekends before Memphis because it is Mother's Day.) W/ the new track coming on board it is only going to get more difficult.
I'll be there
So will Jude and I. That first race at Memphis is one of my favorites of the year and we wouldn't miss it for the world.
would any of my points become valid if i moved to arkansas?
well i described previously why i think St. Louis should be removed as the site for the bonus race. and i don't appreciate you accusing me of being motivated by only my own self interests. you're fighting for memphis and st louis pretty hard, and look where you live. i could make the same accusation, but i won't.
i'm aware of this. i use the term division to describe the aggregate financial health of all the regions operating under it. as has been acknowledged by multiple people, things such as back to back events hurt more than a specific region. at the same time, even though the runoffs are ONLY at topeka, it has helped our entire division (or should i say every region in the division? whatever.) via increased entries at pretty much every event. regions should be working together, not against one another.Quote:
Originally posted by tnord+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnord)</div>personaly, i disagree that the most unfair advantage is that of the home track. as a very low hp car with horrible aero, i think the most unfair advantage is a HP focused track. topeka is too technical (i'm over an hour closer to it), and St Louis focuses too much on HP, that's why i picked MAM. i think anyone that watched the 06 ITA bonus race would agree that the top 3 cars were all different in character but resulted in a fantastic race. but whatever, if that's what was voted, then i'll live with it.Quote:
I completely understand that what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander. my personal distaste for st louis and memphis, and your personal distaste for MAM should be irrelevant. what matters is participation #'s and financial sustainability.
i don't think that St. Louis bonus race and Memphis memorial day is in the best financial interests of the club, that's all.
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that's not what is happening. look no further than the MiDiv ITA champion. with the addition of new tracks in 07, i don't expect anything to change.Quote:
Originally posted by bldn10@
Division champions should be drivers who race well at all of the tracks in the Division.
<!--QuoteBegin-bldn10
Travis, you seem to be under a misconception. The Division is not a profit center.
whatever.....i'm done with this and back to trying to figure out how to find HP so maybe i have anything resembling a chance at the bonus race, if i even go.
FWIW - first national at HPT in 06 had 278 drivers take the green.
Here are a few thoughts and questions that came to my mind as I read through the previous posts:
* Bill is right - the scheduling process is ugly. Everyone should, at the very least, attend the Midiv Convention to see the end of the process....but everyone also should know that there's a ton of work that happens before that meeting.
* To the issue of the MAM race the weekend before Memphis: MVRG/MAM was originally scheduled for April 28/29. MVRG swapped weekends with St. Louis because Gateway wasn't available on May 19/20. Yes, St. Louis was tentatively scheduled for a Regional/National at Gateway on the weekend that MAM is now scheduled, the weekend before Memphis. (And no, there were no other dates in that timeframe available at MAM.)
* I agree, there are too many events. But, as noted, no one wants to (or can afford to) give up their dates. MVRG, for example, relies on two successful Regional/National weekends to be able to pay the bills for the Driver's School weekend the same year. Dropping one of those successful weekends may put the entire SCCA racing program at MAM in jeopardy, as the losses from one DS weekend could easily eat all of the profits of a single Regional/National weekend, particularly if THAT weekend were poorly attended for some reason.
* The "Must have a school" item that Travis mentioned is a "rule" that has frequently been referred to during the scheduling meetings, but can't be found in writing. That "rule" is that any track holding a National event MUST hold a Driver's School. The Exec Committee is working on a rotation schedule recommendation that would only REQUIRE a track/race group to hold a driver's school every other year, which will help the point above. (They would, of course, be allowed to hold one every year....)
* What would everyone here say if there were two, and ONLY two, SCCA weekends at any given track, period? How about two "regular" racing weekends, plus the "Every Other Year/Optional" driver's school weekend?
* Before we move too far down the concept of split regional/national weekends, I need to point out that the same group of workers would need to support all of the races. Adding additional weekends by splitting regional and national racing may further exacerbate the already critical worker issue.
* National racing participation was at record high levels last year (even taking Heartland Park out of the equation); meanwhile, regional racing participation was at record low levels. Rocky's theory attributes this drop in regional racing to the high price of gasoline: as regional racers are "typically" lower-budget racers, the additional cost to travel may have curtailed some of the racing. What's the concensus here?
* I'm firmly of the opinion that the MidAm Bonus Race is NOT an attendance generator. Aside from the 5 or 8 or 10 folks fighting for a divisional championship, the folks racing in that event are the "usual suspects" one would normally see at any given track.
I'll bet that more than one division championship was "won" in Memphis in 2003 the same as was "won" this year at MAM - I was there, and that event in 2003 certainly set no attendance records.
* MAM and Nashville (a track physically located in the Southeast Division) are 725 miles apart. Half of that is 312 miles, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 hours towing. Going back to Rocky's theory above, is there REALLY a conflict if there are two events that same weekend? How many here would actually be torn between the two tracks?
There ARE some good ideas floating around here, even though it's a little tense once in a while. :cavallo:
Jarrod
FWIW I have been "defending" Memphis and St. Louis only because they are the 2 tracks under attack. I would argue just as strongly for any of the others because - like I said - the champ should be at least one of the best at a variety of if not every track in the Div. Conceptually, a rule that you had to run every track would make sense but I'm afraid it might cut some people out who don't have the time and/or budget for long hauls to tracks at the extremes of the Div. like Memphis and MAM. We have compromised by limiting points at any 1 track. Although not the case in any one year, rotating the Bonus Race is the only way to factor out both "home field" advantage and type of track. On the other hand, w/ Hastings coming on board, the only way to get drivers from the west side of the Div. to Memphis and St. Louis might be to have the Bonus Race rotate between those tracks only. IMO Hastings is simply the track we didn't need and, following Travis' concern for the Div. as a whole, hurts.
Jarrod, you are generally correct about Memphis and MAM due to their locations, but I was not just talking about the Bonus Race. E.g. in my class, ITS, Aaron Holstrom (And congrats to Aaron - he drives that 1st gen. RX-7 for all its worth and did what it took to win. :happy204: ) But the fact is that he got 3 wins at MAM including the Bonus Race, that's 48 points, and in all 3 faced another Mid-Am competitor only once. Actually that points to a bigger problem - this year only ITA and ITE had consistently decent Mid-Am fields. :(
How do we go about getting rid of the bonus race?
I wouldn't be in favor of that!Quote:
How do we go about getting rid of the bonus race?
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What about scheduling the bonus race earlier in the year? The bonus points would not accrue for a driver until they ran the required number of races. Since points championships are little bit more in doubt in June or July more drivers might see the benefit of attending a race that could pay double points at some point.
Bonus races, Enduros and the like are event features that can be encorporated on the Regional side to make a regional race more attractive. How about these ideas;
Have a featured class at an event - IT, Prod, GT, open wheel, etc - and give them an extra session or a longer race
Pro IT
Inverted starts
Race the oval at St Louis - no road course! Hey Bubba, how much wedge can I get in an RX7!?
It's Regional racing - let have some fun and do something different!
I like the idea of adding extra track time to try and let the regional drivers have a liittle more fun. We have discussed it in the St. Louis Region, but so far it hasn't panned out. I don't like the idea of running the oval at St. Louis. I think that the track is fast enough and running the oval would be a little to dangerous in my idea. I am also not sure if the insurance would change and if the St. Louis Region would want to deal with it.
Scott,
Why are you in favor of the bonus race? It just means that you can run less races and win the championship.
Hmmmm.... good point. I have had the bonus race benefit me (this year) and hurt me (2004). However I do believe that most of the time the deserving party is wining the Championship - bonue race or no bonus race. Keep in mind that you do have to start and finish 4 races before the Bonus Race points are doubled. Maybe more races should be added to this requirement?Quote:
Scott,
Why are you in favor of the bonus race? It just means that you can run less races and win the championship.
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I guess I look at the Bonus race as being the closest thing that we have to an end of season Championship. I may be wrong but I think that double points were offered as a way to increase the number of drivers with a shot at the Championship or a year end award. It also creates an event that has added draw and as a result may put drivers on the track at the same time that have not faced off all year.
I'll send an E-mail to Rocky. He may be able to add some perspective.
Long before I was a driver I worked for KC Raceware busting tires. In those years I attended all of the races on the Mid Div calendar. As I recall the Bonus race was pretty special back then and provided good racing.
Let keep the ideas flowing
Scott,
I do remember when the bonus race was an exciting event but I think that it has become outdated.
I really think that the championship should be awarded on the best points finisher alone.
you mean total points? like not having a 6 race cap anymore? i don't really like the idea of it becoming a towing contest.Quote:
Scott,
I do remember when the bonus race was an exciting event but I think that it has become outdated.
I really think that the championship should be awarded on the best points finisher alone.
[/b]
Travis, I do mean with the 6 race cap. Sorry I didn't make that clear, I agree that it should not be a towing contest.Quote:
you mean total points? like not having a 6 race cap anymore? i don't really like the idea of it becoming a towing contest.
[/b]
I think that it should be the top six races and that you need to race at three different tracks in order to qualify.
What does everyone think of that?
i wouldn't have a big problem with that.
"I think that it should be the top six races and that you need to race at three different tracks in order to qualify."
The one change I would make would be to require drivers from the west to have at least one race in the east - Memphis and St. Louis. Like it or not the Div. really is split up between 3, soon to be 4, tracks in the west and 2 in the east. A 3-track requirement would necessitate the east drivers doing at least one of the western tracks, which is a good thing, but the western drivers could stay home. Indeed, those up in the northwest part of the Div. could get their complement of events at MAM, Topeka, and Hastings and never even venture to Hallett, much less Memphis and St. Louis.
Good point Bill, how about we make it a four track requirement? Would that work? I just really dislike the bonus race.Quote:
"I think that it should be the top six races and that you need to race at three different tracks in order to qualify."
The one change I would make would be to require drivers from the west to have at least one race in the east - Memphis and St. Louis. Like it or not the Div. really is split up between 3, soon to be 4, tracks in the west and 2 in the east. A 3-track requirement would necessitate the east drivers doing at least one of the western tracks, which is a good thing, but the western drivers could stay home. Indeed, those up in the northwest part of the Div. could get their complement of events at MAM, Topeka, and Hastings and never even venture to Hallett, much less Memphis and St. Louis.
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I think that it is interesting that the racers that are posting here seem to be in favor of making the Mid Am a tougher series - more tracks, east/west requirements, no bonus race, etc - while the the Mid Div rules makers changed a few Mid Am rules for 2007 so that qualifying for Mid Am is easier. For example the number of required race starts/finishes has been reduced, drivers that earn 30 or more national points are eliminated from the Mid Am and there was talk of removing the two race track requirement. It seems to me that the rules makers and the participants want the same thing but have drastically different solutions.
So the $64K question is how do we get our desires and idea accross to the people that schedule and run our events? Maybe we need a Regional Racing committee or leadership group that can work on Regional issues. After all the National Program is pretty much defined by the GCR.
What do you think?
Scott,
You bring up a good idea, develope a regional road race committee for the region. Does it exist?
If you removed the two race track requirement you could have a champion who never ran against any of the other leaders in the competition, that is a bad idea.
Anybody else have any ideas?
Personally, I like the multi-track requirement. The number of tracks is up for grabs. For me here in the South part of the division, the schedule works fine. About one race per month. Last summer the MAM race was a long pull for me. And putting IT last on the docket made me stay out another night on the road. At some races, we get to race just before lunch, and I can make it home for supper. I'm still trying to learn all the tracks, so it doesn't matter to me. I like Memphis on Memorial Day, and STL....even if they both are HP tracks (and I'm low on HP).
This does not realy belong in this discussion but because people have been bad mouthing Gateway I wanted to say something.
I like this track, The folks there are great. My first time there I was HOURS ahead of schedule and they let me in anyway. I got all setup set down and watched some TV. They came by and let me know that they unlocked the bathrooms for us. Great customer service.
I will also say that the track is one of the most spectator friendly tracks that I go to. I took a friend to Hallett and HPT and they said they could not see everything. It might not be a "real" road race track but it does have its pluses.
As far as the two Tenn tracks that is just to long of a haul for me. I guess I am lucky as I have STL,HPT,MAM all less then 4hrs away...some lots less.