Sorry bout that ???

Yesterday was only my 7th race so bare with me if this is a stupid question. I had my first incident where I tried a pass by out braking on the inside going into a turn and went in a little too hot and I was unable to keep the car down on the apex.

I ended up about 1 1/2 car widths off of the apex, leaving about 1 car width (at best) for the other guy. I don't know if he ended up taking the outside line or if he had to check up to keep from hitting me.

I went over to him after the race and appologized for the incident. He acted like he didn't expect an appology but admitted that it did surprise him a little.

My question is; at the time the incident happened, I felt I needed to acknoledge to him that I messed up and I was sorry. So I ended up waving an open hand to him. After doing so, I realized that it could have been misinterpreted to mean that I was checking up or that I was an ass and was waiving bye bye or sarcastically thanking him for giving up a pass.

So, is there a sign for "my bad" or should I not worry about it until after the race is over?

That is interesting. First you did the right thing by talking to him. As far as the wave I think that by waving you at least acknowledged that you knew he existed which is not bad. In the heat of the moment he may misinterpret but there is not much you can do about that. I really don’t think you can do much more, from inside a car all you can really do is wave, shake a fist or indicate IQ and the last may been seen as a wave or a fist anyway.
By the way I will not bare with you but I will bear with you.:o

Steve, it is always nice to have racers who care about their fellow competitors and not just go banzai into the corners with no thought about others.

My recommendation however is to fully concentrate on the race, and sort things out afterward in the paddock. Temperatures should be lower by then and you can exchange views in a real dialogue.

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Originally Posted by rthiele

My recommendation ... is to fully concentrate on the race, and sort things out afterward in the paddock.

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+1.

Your instinct is correct: the wave could be misinterpreted in several ways.

Steve

Incident? Did you hit him??

If not, you made the pass...congrats.

I've been told that the "peace sign" V is pretty universally understood on German roads as "Sorry, my bad." We should have something like that here.

K

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Originally Posted by Knestis

I've been told that the "peace sign" V is pretty universally understood on German roads as "Sorry, my bad." We should have something like that here.

K

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The peace sign is what I do if I screw up.

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Originally Posted by joeg

Incident? Did you hit him??

If not, you made the pass...congrats.

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No. There was no contact, but I'm pretty sure he had to take some sort of evasive action to avoid hitting me. To say the least, I was unpredictable.

Hopefully there won't be a next time, but if there is, I think I'll follow the advice here and do nothing during the race and just discuss after the race.

The peace sign sounds like a great idea (could possibly difuse hot tempers before they occur), but until that is more commonly recognised, I think I'll hold off on that.

Steve, glad you got back out racing......

You did the right thing in approaching him and apologizing. We all need to remember to do that. But the good thing is it occurred to you to do it...

As far as the wave goes, doubtful he saw it, but I'm with Kirk and Bowie, give'em the peace sign next time.

The peace sign is great assuming he sees both fingers. :p

As you race more, you'll also get to know your competitors and how best to approach them after any racing incidents. Some people I know better to just say a quick "that wasn't my intent" and leave it at that, and others discuss a bit more with them. In one of my first few races I had an incident, and spoke with the driver and apologized a few times. He recommended to just say sorry once, and leave it at that as some drivers might try to take advantage of the situation.

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Originally Posted by gran racing

The peace sign is great assuming he sees both fingers. :p

As you race more, you'll also get to know your competitors and how best to approach them after any racing incidents. Some people I know better to just say a quick "that wasn't my intent" and leave it at that, and others discuss a bit more with them. In one of my first few races I had an incident, and spoke with the driver and apologized a few times. He recommended to just say sorry once, and leave it at that as some drivers might try to take advantage of the situation.

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I knew the point about knowing your competitors would come up and thank you for not saying that I should already know them after 7 races. (and I should by then) With the reclassification to ITB and with the races at VIR having different groupings, this year's MARRS 4 and possibly MARRS 1 (if he ran) would have been our only times running together.

So yeah, that's part of it that I'm still learning all of the ITB drivers as well as the IT7 drivers.

I think you did fine. It probably wasn't seen as a big deal...hey, it's racing, not lapping...but the chat in the paddock is always classy, and that's always the better choice.

Also, just "looking" like you're going to pass will get you some passes done even if you weren't all that serious...

Look at it this way. I got clocked in the ITA race as lap traffic slowed me up. Don't really know who was at fault as I never saw him and we made contact at the apex of T7. All I have is his front rubber on my rear wheel. Minor damage and some sore ribs. Didn't know who he was until I reviewed the video last night.

But he never bothered to find me to see if I was OK. So, in my mind, the issue was never resolved and he remains the AH instead of, maybe, a friend.

This is club racing and we all make mistakes otherwise we'd be making our living doing this. We're out on the track with each other lots of times and it is the least you can do to make sure the guy is OK after an incident, apologize for a close call or just say thanks for a great battle, won or lost.

Maybe he didn't know who you were either.

The peace sign is done palm out (hard to do while in harness).
Two fingers up, palm in (as in Steve McQueen gesture in LeMans) is less nice.

The book "A French Kiss with Death" describes the origin of the 2 finger salute.
English longbowmen who fell into the hands of the French, would have their string pulling fingers cut off. This insured that the flower of French knighthood would not suffer again from the same bowman. It goes on to say that before a battle, the English would taunt the French by waving the 2 fingers in the air as a gesture indicating that the fingers remain and the French would move at their peril. Steve McQueen originally wanted to use the American single finger salute, but was offered a more elegant 2 finger version by a British photographer on the set.
Jim S.

The meaning "you are trying to cut me off, but not with me" translates nicely into racing.

Is it politically correct to show the gesture to a French competitor? :shrug:

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Originally Posted by raceita

The peace sign is done palm out (hard to do while in harness).
Two fingers up, palm in (as in Steve McQueen gesture in LeMans) is less nice.

The book "A French Kiss with Death" describes the origin of the 2 finger salute.
English longbowmen who fell into the hands of the French, would have their string pulling fingers cut off. This insured that the flower of French knighthood would not suffer again from the same bowman. It goes on to say that before a battle, the English would taunt the French by waving the 2 fingers in the air as a gesture indicating that the fingers remain and the French would move at their peril. Steve McQueen originally wanted to use the American single finger salute, but was offered a more elegant 2 finger version by a British photographer on the set.
Jim S.

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The peace sign is also done with the fingers completely straight, forming a V. The difference is easy to see. I've never had a problem.

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Originally Posted by Knestis

I've been told that the "peace sign" V is pretty universally understood on German roads as "Sorry, my bad." We should have something like that here.

K

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my first rental car experience in Germany and someone motioned me out and i gave them the typical american version of "ok" back with my forefinger and thumb in a circle.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...19/OK_Sign.jpg

but in that area of Germany apparently means "asshole"

You should not show this in Italy either

Steve,

He was probably just admiring the great looking numbers on the car and didn't even notice!

I also wanted to comment, and this is not directed at you Steve, but it is a dangerous and unhealthy attitude to assume that because someone did not come talk to you about what you perceived as an incident, he is an A Hole. There are a multitude of reasons why this may be. First, what you thought was an incident might, to a different driver (more, less, or different experience), not be an incident. Hell, every SM race would have to end with a group hug if every bump or nudge was an incident. Second, other issues or priorities might have prevented them from coming to see you (think impound, a long drive home, kids or wives at the track). Or third, maybe they just could not find you. I've toured the paddock looking for drivers before and either never found their cars (already in the trailer maybe) or never found the car when the driver was around.

Sorry to be so long winded, but if YOU feel that a discussion in necessary, then YOU need to make sure it occurs. You can't blame someone else for not reading your mind and acting on your wishes. Bottom line, you need to give someone a chance to prove they are an A Hole before you condemn them as such. Just my .02.

Rory
ARTEO Graphics
[email protected]

PS I think you did everything right Steve. You made the pass without contact and you found your competitor and shared your perspective and enjoyment of the race. Great Weekend!

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Originally Posted by backformore

Steve,

He was probably just admiring the great looking numbers on the car and didn't even notice!

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Funny... yeah he probably was. And good memory.

Steve,
Are you talking about your pass on me in turn 1? If so, I had to go onto dirty track, but I had plenty of track left; besides, I may have left YOU more room than I needed to, and therefore was wider than necessary. To be honest? I don't recall seeing your hand gesture at all, as I was still out in the marbles, and a little busy : )
Historically, I know that when driving I can see the difference between a shaken fist, and an open hand up, which I take as "thanks for not taking me out, maybe I could have done that a little better". I think an open hand can be calming.
As stated by others, though, coming and talking about it with me was the right thing to do, and I appreciated it. At the same time, don't feel bad about that pass - you were wider than I had hoped, but technically, it was fine, legal, and over time, you'll get them cleaner.

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Originally Posted by dyoungre

Steve,
Are you talking about your pass on me in turn 1? If so, I had to go onto dirty track, but I had plenty of track left; besides, I may have left YOU more room than I needed to, and therefore was wider than necessary. To be honest? I don't recall seeing your hand gesture at all, as I was still out in the marbles, and a little busy : )
Historically, I know that when driving I can see the difference between a shaken fist, and an open hand up, which I take as "thanks for not taking me out, maybe I could have done that a little better". I think an open hand can be calming.
As stated by others, though, coming and talking about it with me was the right thing to do, and I appreciated it. At the same time, don't feel bad about that pass - you were wider than I had hoped, but technically, it was fine, legal, and over time, you'll get them cleaner.

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Yes, that is the pass in question. I was beyond turn 2 by the time I waived that I was sorry so you were out of the marbles by then. (I've been re-thinking my choice of black gloves for the very reason that hand signs are probably not very visible)

I appreciate your comments regarding the situation.

I know we weren't racing for class position, but I still had a blast. I was right, you did push me to my personal best lap time (about six times)

Hopefully see you at MARRS 5

As someone else mentioned, I wouldnt think this is the kind of thing that should require even a second thought. Certainly does not require an apology.

However, if you want to meet the other guy just to say hi, since you are new, then that is fine.
Even experienced racers make mistakes.
I've had runoffs champions that I was racing with dive inside of me, lock up the brakes, and slide completely off the track (yeah, you have to check up for that sort of thing:)).
Didnt bother me and I didnt expect to see them in the pits afterwards. No harm, no foul sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by backformore

Steve,

Hell, every SM race would have to end with a group hug if every bump or nudge was an incident.

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The thought of 45+ SSM drivers gathering in pit road to sing "Kum Ba Yah" is just too much! :happy204: