E36 ITS/R Questions

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02-26-2009, 07:36 PM
juliancates

E36 ITS/R Questions
So, I'm trying to wrap up my IT build in time to do the Blackhawk Farms double school. I'm a bit of a noob and have some legitimate questions about whether or not certain things would be legal within IT. I don't intend to try to bend the rules, I just want to understand the legality. I would really appreciate any guidance.

I have a JT designs aluminum underpanel. Can this be used on an IT car?
I tried posting a link, but can't as I don't have a high enough post count.

Try jtdesigns DOT stores DOT yahoo DOT net SLASH alunpan DOT html

My donor car didn't come with interior door panels. I have X bars that don't intrude into the doors. Can I:
- Remove the window glass?
- Remove the window motors?
I had thought of using aluminum panels, but the window motors are pretty bulky and the panels won't sit flat. If I can remove the motors, I'll use the panels. Otherwise, I'll have to score a pair of stock door panels.

Also... is the fuel test port mandatory for the school?

Thanks in advance!
02-26-2009, 08:46 PM
ekim952522000

It's hard to tell from that picture if that air dam would be legal or not. Do you have a picture of it on the car?

Sounds like you will need stock door panels since you cannot remove the motors with your current door bar design.
02-26-2009, 08:49 PM
JeffYoung
Welcome, welcome.

Fair questions for new guy, even if you have read the ITCS -- but do read the ITCS early and often. Will give you ideas for what you can do, as well as tell you what you can't.

In any event, in looking at that webpage, it may be legal. It depends on how it is attached, and how big it is. If it attaches to the spoiler, and is part of the spoiler, it's legal so long as it doesn't protrude past the bumper/body outline when viewed from above, and doesn't extend past the front of the wheel wells. If this thing attaches that way and is of that size, then it is legal. If not, you may still be able to cut it so it works.

On the windows and motors, you can't gut the door unless the bars extend into the door, so no go there unless you redo your cage.

You probably will not get a logbook (meaning no school) without a fuel test port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juliancates

So, I'm trying to wrap up my IT build in time to do the Blackhawk Farms double school. I'm a bit of a noob and have some legitimate questions about whether or not certain things would be legal within IT. I don't intend to try to bend the rules, I just want to understand the legality. I would really appreciate any guidance.

I have a JT designs aluminum underpanel. Can this be used on an IT car?
I tried posting a link, but can't as I don't have a high enough post count.

Try jtdesigns DOT stores DOT yahoo DOT net SLASH alunpan DOT html

My donor car didn't come with interior door panels. I have X bars that don't intrude into the doors. Can I:

Remove the window glass?
Remove the window motors?
I had thought of using aluminum panels, but the window motors are pretty bulky and the panels won't sit flat. If I can remove the motors, I'll use the panels. Otherwise, I'll have to score a pair of stock door panels.

Also... is the fuel test port mandatory for the school?

Thanks in advance!
02-26-2009, 09:09 PM
shwah

Keep an eye on the entry list for the race that weekend for Jim Peterson in his E36. I am sure he will be happy to offer advice to a newb, and will have a great example of a well prepped example to look at.

If I make it out that weekend, I will look for you.
02-26-2009, 09:49 PM
ed325its

The side window glass and motors can not be removed unless Nascar type bars are used that extend into the door. The E36 has a stock fuel testing port on the fuel rail. All you need to do is install alluminun or stock door panels to go racing.

Welcome.
02-26-2009, 09:57 PM
robits325is

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed325its

The side window glass and motors can not be removed unless Nascar type bars are used that extend into the door. The E36 has a stock fuel testing port on the fuel rail. All you need to do is install alluminun or stock door panels to go racing.

Welcome.

Ed,

Are you racing at all this year?

Rob
02-26-2009, 10:26 PM
juliancates

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed325its

The E36 has a stock fuel testing port on the fuel rail. All you need to do is install alluminun or stock door panels to go racing.

Welcome.

Perfect! Check that one off the list. Thanks for the head's up!
02-26-2009, 10:29 PM
juliancates

Quote:

Originally Posted by shwah

Keep an eye on the entry list for the race that weekend for Jim Peterson in his E36. I am sure he will be happy to offer advice to a newb, and will have a great example of a well prepped example to look at.

If I make it out that weekend, I will look for you.

Hey, thanks Chris. I've got some time, I'm hopeful that I can get everything in order in time for the school. If so, I'll be sure to look up Jim and you if you're there.

Thanks!
02-26-2009, 10:40 PM
juliancates

Mike / Jeff --

OK, so now I should hopefully have enough posts to be able to post an image or a link. Here's the underpanel installed... albeit on an M3, but it would be the same on the 325.

http://www.namotorwerks.com/images/f...907-UPD_fs.jpg

In looking at that closer... looks like it is "aft of the forward most part of the front
fender opening", but just barely. I'll see if I can track down the stock underpanel piece that goes there... although it's probably fairly similar, just made of plastic instead of aluminum.

Thanks, all, for the welcome and the support. Hope to be racing with you soon!

P.S. Sorry for the multiple posts... trying to get the post count to where I could post links.
02-27-2009, 09:20 AM
dj10

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliancates

Mike / Jeff --

OK, so now I should hopefully have enough posts to be able to post an image or a link. Here's the underpanel installed... albeit on an M3, but it would be the same on the 325.

http://www.namotorwerks.com/images/f...907-UPD_fs.jpg

In looking at that closer... looks like it is "aft of the forward most part of the front
fender opening", but just barely. I'll see if I can track down the stock underpanel piece that goes there... although it's probably fairly similar, just made of plastic instead of aluminum.

Thanks, all, for the welcome and the support. Hope to be racing with you soon!

P.S. Sorry for the multiple posts... trying to get the post count to where I could post links.

You may notice the black splitter piece on the bottom of the bumper cover sticks out farther than allowed by the rules. Usually anyone who runs this will remove this piece to remain legal, if your running in ITR. If you run ITE, nobody cares. :~)
02-27-2009, 10:34 AM
Olson-RRT

Julian, a saying I have heard many times, which I believe will help you along with interpreting the rules, is, "if it [the rules] doesn't say you can do it then you probably can't." This is certainly the case with your door gutting question.

For your search of the stock under tray use http://realoem.com. Very helpful for tracking down all sorts of misc parts with their factory part numbers.
02-27-2009, 01:13 PM
snk328is

Hey Julian, I'll see you at the BHF driving school. Are you on bimmerforums or EuroTeknik? I've been a member on the former for a long time and still a n00b on the latter.

FYI, bimmerworld sells a fuel test port kit. http://store.bimmerworld.com/shared/...immerworl&All=

Nobu
02-27-2009, 04:35 PM
juliancates

Quote:

Originally Posted by snk328is

Hey Julian, I'll see you at the BHF driving school. Are you on bimmerforums or EuroTeknik? I've been a member on the former for a long time and still a n00b on the latter.

FYI, bimmerworld sells a fuel test port kit. http://store.bimmerworld.com/shared/...immerworl&All=

Nobu

Hey Nobu. I'm on Bimmerforums, but not EuroTeknik. On BF.c, I'm "juliank8z". I think we may have traded e-mails before. Did you have a trailer for sale recently?
02-27-2009, 04:44 PM
juliancates

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj10

You may notice the black splitter piece on the bottom of the bumper cover sticks out farther than allowed by the rules. Usually anyone who runs this will remove this piece to remain legal, if your running in ITR. If you run ITE, nobody cares. :~)

Do you mean the stock black "lip" on the M3 bumper cover? Not applicable to me as I do have a 325is bumper cover on my car, not the M3/M-Technic bumper pictured. That picture was pulled off of the internet to show the JT underpanel.

Anybody have any creative methods they would care to share for fabbing an IT legal air dam/spoiler? I noticed BW has a nice CF that runs about $370... but that's a little rich for my blood right now.

I'll check realoem to see if they are the same, but if the M3 underpanel and the 325is underpanel are the same parts, I can pull the stock underpanel off of my street M3 and use the JT designs underpanel there.

Olson-RRT --- Words to live by for sure! I did want to get some clarification as to the common understanding of "gutting", and if removal of window glass was included in that. Looks like I'll be finding a pair of stock door panels until I can get in line at my cage builder's for "NASCAR" bars.

Really appreciate the support, guys!
02-27-2009, 04:50 PM
dj10

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliancates

Do you mean the stock black "lip" on the M3 bumper cover?

That's the machine I was talking about. I you don't have one, don't worry about it.:)
02-27-2009, 08:04 PM
snk328is

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliancates

Hey Nobu. I'm on Bimmerforums, but not EuroTeknik. On BF.c, I'm "juliank8z". I think we may have traded e-mails before. Did you have a trailer for sale recently?

Hey Julian, yes it looks like we traded emails about the trailer I had for sale. I sold it to another local BMW guy.

It will be good to have another ITR racer here (and with a BMW to boot) in the Chicagoland area. I'm brand new to this region myself but as I understand it, there aren't many IT racers up in our neck of the woods.

BTW, I signed up for an Audi club DE at Autobahn the first weekend of April. $260 for two days, plus $44 to join the Audi club if you're not a member already. They are giving a $100 discount for those who have never attended one of their DE's. I figured it's a good way to shake down the car before the drivers school at the end of the month. Are you planning on attending any other DE's before the drivers school? There's an event being held every weekend in April.
02-27-2009, 08:19 PM
juliancates

Hey Nobu ---

I'm actually in St. Louis, and would probably race more with the MidDiv region. Gateway is about 25 minutes from my house, which is nice! I was planning on doing the MidDiv school, which is at MidAmerica Motorplex this year. Then I found out that CenDiv was doing their school at BlackHawk, which is an hour or two closer for me. You never know, though, Chicagoland isn't really that far. You should also come down here sometime if you get the chance!

I'll likely do at least one DE at Gateway before the school.

Sounds like a heck of a deal with the Audi club!
02-28-2009, 12:51 AM
snk328is

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliancates

Hey Nobu ---

I'm actually in St. Louis, and would probably race more with the MidDiv region. Gateway is about 25 minutes from my house, which is nice! I was planning on doing the MidDiv school, which is at MidAmerica Motorplex this year. Then I found out that CenDiv was doing their school at BlackHawk, which is an hour or two closer for me. You never know, though, Chicagoland isn't really that far. You should also come down here sometime if you get the chance!

I'll likely do at least one DE at Gateway before the school.

Sounds like a heck of a deal with the Audi club!

Ah gotcha...

Ya know, I just put 2 and 2 together. You got your cage done at Izzy's right? My car is down there right at this very moment getting pretty much the same cage you have in your car put in mine. My car is even the same color (or close to it). Is yours Avus, Montreal or Mauritius Blue?

Small world!

I'll have to check out the MidDiv schedule. This is my first year back in racing after a prolonged hiatus so I think my schedule is going to be limited to cut down on expenses after dropping a large chunk in a new cage and suspension. But I may need to stretch my legs to look for more IT competition once I get into the swing of things...

See you at BHF...
02-28-2009, 02:14 AM
Speed Raycer

Whoops.. I'm late to the party! Julian, Nobu, Nobu, Julian :D:026:
03-01-2009, 09:23 PM
juliancates

Quote:

Originally Posted by snk328is

Ah gotcha...

Ya know, I just put 2 and 2 together. You got your cage done at Izzy's right? My car is down there right at this very moment getting pretty much the same cage you have in your car put in mine. My car is even the same color (or close to it). Is yours Avus, Montreal or Mauritius Blue?

Small world!

I'll have to check out the MidDiv schedule. This is my first year back in racing after a prolonged hiatus so I think my schedule is going to be limited to cut down on expenses after dropping a large chunk in a new cage and suspension. But I may need to stretch my legs to look for more IT competition once I get into the swing of things...

See you at BHF...

No kidding small world! Mine was originally Mauritius Blue. Now it has primer colored "accents". Lol. Will probably see a low-end paintshop in the near future.

It's funny, too, as Scott had mentioned that he had another E36 in the shop right now. How coincidental that it would be you. Scott does fantastic work, I'm sure you'll like the cage. When are you coming down to pick it up?

I'm scrambling to get everything ready in time for BHF, and I might have to rent a car for the school if I can't get everything finished. Do you know of anybody in the area that might have a RWD car for rent? I don't want to do that unless I absolutely have to, but better start putting plan B together.

Looking forward to meeting you Nobu. :)
03-01-2009, 11:36 PM
mlytle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed325its

The E36 has a stock fuel testing port on the fuel rail.
Welcome.

It does? my 93 325 does not. not all e36's have this. check before counting on it being there!
03-02-2009, 01:08 AM
NORRIS

Welcome aboard!

You might check, I don't think your car has to be IT legal for the school, but I'm pretty sure it has to be SCCA safety legal. I'm not sure about if you need the fuel port for the school. I am pretty sure that all the OBD1 cars DO NOT have a fuel port on the rail. Check with James at Bimmerworld to get a fuel port.
03-02-2009, 04:39 PM
Olson-RRT

Last year at the Summit Point school (NEDIV) I used a NASA spec e30 and had to have an SCCA log book issued. Tech was nice enough to give lots of "fix before next time", one of which was the fuel inspection port, and let me through. As with anything on the internet, YMMV.
03-02-2009, 04:54 PM
dickita15

That would probably still happen with a fuel port however do to a ugly internet battle about an event at Nelson last year stewards are being told that they may not do a fix by next event waiver on any safety item no matter how trivial.
03-02-2009, 05:06 PM
jamsilvia

Quote:

stewards are being told that they may not do a fix by next event waiver on any safety item no matter how trivial

Nor should they. SAFETY items should never be waived. A fuel test port, however, is used for rules compliance. I'm of the opinion that something like a fuel test port should be allowed to be waived - particularly for a school - but also in general.....as long as you don't do good enough to make it to post-race impound!

I had received one of these waivers myself - and was quite glad. I found that the test port I had was leaking (and I found it as I was loading the car onto the trailer!) - and rather than pass tech with that in place, I removed it completely. Seems like a reasonable request on my part. Had I reached the podium and someone protested me, I think I would have to just suck up the penalty. But in any case, I got to race - which is what I care about.

joe

p.s. crap - this is probably off topic from the intent of the thread. Apologies.
03-03-2009, 05:05 PM
snk328is

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliancates

No kidding small world! Mine was originally Mauritius Blue. Now it has primer colored "accents". Lol. Will probably see a low-end paintshop in the near future.

It's funny, too, as Scott had mentioned that he had another E36 in the shop right now. How coincidental that it would be you. Scott does fantastic work, I'm sure you'll like the cage. When are you coming down to pick it up?

Thankfully mine doesn't have any "accents", and I hope to keep it that way... Montreal Blue here BTW.

The cage will be done this week and I'm scheduled to pick it up on Saturday. The guy I'm driving down with mentioned getting together with some other BMW guys for lunch. Perhaps you'd like to join us? (If so, PM me your contact info.)

Quote:

I'm scrambling to get everything ready in time for BHF, and I might have to rent a car for the school if I can't get everything finished. Do you know of anybody in the area that might have a RWD car for rent? I don't want to do that unless I absolutely have to, but better start putting plan B together.

I actually don't know many people in this area as I'm relatively new and even newer to the racing crowd. Sorry...

Quote:

Looking forward to meeting you Nobu. :)

Likewise!
03-03-2009, 05:06 PM
snk328is

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlytle

It does? my 93 325 does not. not all e36's have this. check before counting on it being there!

I have a '95 325is and also do not have a fuel test port. I had to put in the bimmerworld kit.
03-05-2009, 04:34 PM
matthewAPM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snk328is

I have a '95 325is and also do not have a fuel test port. I had to put in the bimmerworld kit.

This is something I had no clue about. Thanks for the info!