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Does anyone know how many slick tops were produced? I've been watching EBAY for some time now and haven't seen any for sale. As an alternative, how hard would it be to replace T-tops with sheet metal? And lastly, does anyone know of a Z32 that has been built for ITR?
Thanks for any input.
Steve
Nope on the number and IIRC Chris Newberry has a slick top for sale.
See this link http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...c=11559&hl=300z
You aren't deserting the 240 are you?
Thanks Paul... I'm not planning on giving up on the 240 just yet. As a matter of fact I'm planning to paint the car and build a new motor this winter. However I am looking to the future. If I get a 300ZX now I will drive it on the street, but keep in mind the possibility of turning it into a racecar someday.
I'll give Chris a call.
Chris sold his. It was about perfect -- I think it had a cage in it already.
Steve, there is a shop outside Atlanta that specializes in the Z32 that had bunch of slicktops. Either Chris or Tristan Smith directed me to them.
Thanks Jeff... Part of the reason I'm asking is that I have the opportunity to buy a T-top car for a very good price. Does anyone know how hard it would be to sheet metal the T-top car? How much heavier is the T-top car vs a slicktop?
And maybe more important than that is the question of competitiveness. I'd hate to be the first to build a new make of racecar. I know that the car can make big HP numbers, but at 3250 lbs I'm worried about tires, brakes, and handling. By my calculations the car hits the same power to weight ratio as the BMW325is when you add 25% for IT trim to both cars. That sounds like parity if we were drag racing, but for road coarses it sounds like a distinct advantage to the bimmer at 2765 lbs. And considering the curb weight of the car is 3300, can you really do an IT prep without being grossly under weight? Perhaps the good part of that would be racing with the A/C on and listening to a CD!!!
Steve,
There was a black over red car in the area that won SSA at the Runoffs in the early 90's. If memory serves, it was sold for a song after the class was done away with. The last year of the class, i believe Bob ended up 2nd or 3rd in that same car, so it surely could be a competitive car. Good luck finding one.
Steve, I did some of the same research you are doing and bought a slick-top when I saw it in case I built one. According to the internet searchs I did, there were only about 2500 slicktops of the Z32 90-96 chassis made. If I remember correctly that's TOTAL, not each year so that's why they are hard to come by. I sold the one I had and it was still a street car, no cage. It was a 5 speed also....DOH!!! I am friends with the guy that bought it and he has hinted at selling it so call me if you want the particulars. The main "Z32 shop" in the Atlanta area is called Z-1 Motorsports, just google for number.
In my most humble opinion I think the Z31 (84-89 chassis) is a better build for ITS, I know it's not ITR but that's a whole other forum/thread/website for debate, won't go there. After the weight reduction on the Z31, you can easily get the 1984 /85 slicktop chassis to the minimum and the car has great torque, handling and brakes.
Also, we did a boat load of development on the 240sx (S14) we built and were kind of the "first ones" on that car. It turned out to be a good car but took 3 years of development and 4 wallets to get it to the front consistently. I liked it because it was more modern but that presented extra challenges too. One of the deterents for me personally to build the Z32 was it's just a plain ol pain in the ass to work on in a controlled environment such as a shop, much less the reacetrack if you have an issue.
I know David Spillman was looking at buying my 240sx and co-drove with me in an enduro at Charlotte. He was only about a half a second slower than me in a car unfamiliar to him by the way, (yeah, the man can drive). He liked the power and brakes but said he just wasn't ready to change driving style/feel to a more modern feeling chassis. He preferred the "darty feel" of the 240Z. I bring that up because your both "Z" pilots so it may be something for you to consider also.
Good luck and Happy Holidays to everybody. My phone is usually on, 404-314-5042. Chris
The Z32 does look appealing for ITR but I agree with the assessments above. The weight is going to be a real problem to deal with for tire grip levels, tire life, braking performance, and brake component lifetime. I was also scared of working in that engine bay, it is tight in there.
Here is the best production record for the car I found while researching it last year:
http://www.j-bender.com/tech/prod/
2539 Slicktops produced according to that site. Not easy to find.
Are there any 90%+ Z31 builds out there? I imagine there are and I'd expect them to be very competitive in ITS as Chris says. I've just not seen any in recent memory that looked to be extreme builds. Most I've seen were quite high off the ground, some wearing stock wheels, and almost looked more like street cars than ITS front runners.
ITR has a great many interesting cars.
Ron
Chris built, if I recall correctly, a fast Z31 that got totalled out early. There was a white one that ran in the SEDiv for a while -- Greg Ross maybe? -- that was for sale recently as well.
But the granddaddy of them all was Grayson Upchurch's that won the ARRC back in the mid-90s. It is one of the subject cars of that great GRM article comparing John Williams' 240z to the Upchurch 300zx.
Thanks Chris... All very good points about starting from scratch and working on a more modern car. I'm still very interested in the Z32 but I think I'll wait and see someone else build one first. I was following an Ebay auction for a 1991 T-top car but chose not to bid on it partly because the seller chose not to answer any of my questions.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...rksid=p3907.m32
There was another one that closed recently:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...4.cWAT.m240.lVI
Donor cars are out there, I just don't know how difficult it would be to make a T-top car work.
Steve "still a hardcore Z guy" Parrish
I like the Zs too. I still dream about a 100% built Sam motored Megasquirt 280Z. I think it could be a serious heavy hitter in ITS. Heck, the 240Z already is, a 280Z would be more torque, disc brakes, 5 speed - just more Z to love!
That is an excellent price on that second one. Haven't seen one that low in awhile. Was watching them quite a bit through 06 and 07.
Ron
Jeff, That's correct. I built a z31 in 99/00 and at the time it was almost "full tilt". We didn't have sphericals, good coil overs, fuel cell, motec, etc...some stuff that is now legal and common. We tested it at "Little Talladega" and we were just .3 off of Larry Lukes (240Z) track record right off the trailer and some very minor suspension tweaks. Unfortunately we chose the 00 ARRC for the debut and it got totalled on the start of the enduro. Anyways, long story short, that was at the old weight and I really like the chances of it now. I am still considering another one myself if I decide to go IT racing again.
I love the Z32 also but I'm not convinced of the IT potential as discussed above.
Chris, too bad about that car. I bet it would have cleaned up in S.
S is great racing right now, lots of chassis have a chance. I was planning on making the move to R, but won't do it for a few more years at least because the racing is so good right now, although it is in danger of becoming Spec Z car......I'm kidding, REALLY good to see all the Zs back out (Spillman, Mackaman, Ron, Steve P., Randy Shed, John Williams, David Kim, Rex D.'s car about back on the road, David Plott rebuilding his, Paul B. next year we hope, Jeff R. next year we hope and Bryan P. next year we hope).
A Z31 sure would be a cheaper build than a Z32 and like I said, in S right now the racing is really, really good.
The Z31 has a huge potential but I haven't seen a fast example in a year or two. There was one at the ARRC this year but he never showed any real speed. He may have been having fuel delivery issues. I walked past his paddock and someone was holding a fuel pump with a frustrated look on his face.
The best one I've seen in recent memory was at VIR. David Ross was fast even before the weight break. I don't recall seeing him this year.
Ron... I agree that the 75-78 280Z is one of the best choices out there given the new weight and recent rules breaks. Rock Vest was VERY fast with his even before the new weight. Add that car to the list of active Z's, someone bought it and ran it at VIR in Oct.
Another new Z on the way is Charles Perry, or so I've heard. He's building one of the first all-out 280ZX cars in the SEDIV. I can't wait to see how that car stacks up. 4 wheel disc breaks....Ooooooooo.....
Jeff... Thanks for the list of Z's. Rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated.
And we forgot one of the fastest Z's in the southeast: Guy Marvin/Greg Ira!Quote:
S is great racing right now, lots of chassis have a chance. I was planning on making the move to R, but won't do it for a few more years at least because the racing is so good right now, although it is in danger of becoming Spec Z car......I'm kidding, REALLY good to see all the Zs back out (Spillman, Mackaman, Ron, Steve P., Randy Shed, John Williams, David Kim, Rex D.'s car about back on the road, David Plott rebuilding his, Paul B. next year we hope, Jeff R. next year we hope and Bryan P. next year we hope).
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Go ITZ!!!!!!!
Z-1 Motorsports is out in Carrolton about an hour west of Atlanta on 20. I went out to their place a few years back to get some parts for my 95 TT. They have tons of salvage cars and parts. Pretty much just some guys working out of a barn back then. Balanced Performance is another big Z shop and is in Suwanee.
Keep an eye on the classifieds on Twinturbo.net. Slicktops pop up there every now and then. They tend to go for a premium, though.
David
Steve,
the ZX is close to being finished. We tested and had fuel problems but think we have it figured out. We will be testing again in the next 30 days and hope to have it ready by March. Look forward to getting the car out seeing what she will do.
Charles
Charles... It's very cool to see you on the forum. I can't wait to hear the results of your effort with the 280ZX. I believe the ZX and the 280Z to be two of the highest potential cars in ITS. Not that I'm giving up on the 240Z just yet! Keep us advised!
Steve
Steve,
Greg has the car now and is finishing up. He had it on the dyno and we still are having some fuel and mixture issues but he thinks he has it figured out. We will do a full test day at Sebring Jan 5th so that really will be the shakedown for the car. I ran the Prelude down there a couple of weeks ago so I know what kind of times are quick, hopefully we will be in the neighborhood!!
Charles
I have a 95 already track built that I am in the process of finishing the end of the seaon "go through". I ran it in ITR last season for a couple races, but didn't have the budget to run a full season. Car is a blast to drive, and I definitely had fun during the school, the couple races I did, and a ton of track days. I am considering selling it once it is back together. I might jump over to the ITA 240sx since we already have a shop full of spares and R & D into that chassis. There are some pictures of it up on our website, www.bbracingusa.com. If you are interested or want more info on it let me know.
Price?
Havent gotten that far yet. haha. We just started talking about it this week so right now I am willing to entertain offers, but will set a price for it in the next couple weeks after I get it all back together.
I was sniffing around that car - nice ride and owned by a great bunch of guys. Going Boxster - Porsche has always been my favorite and I bought a '97 brand new and it was my favorite car. Took awhile to find a good deal. Going to pick it up on Saturday - kinda like waiting for Christmas when I was a kid :114:
Very cool Ben!! I have been noodling about ITR...I haven't gotten the build numbers on that car figured out yet...I assume you have.. Care to share some of your assumptions and your plan?
The plan is based on the car being a better handler than most. The play is on momentum and less on HP. At 2830 it'll be a light car with great brakes and excellent chassis. The weakness is the HP - rumors are that the '99 makes a little more than 201 at the crank - who knows.
European car did intake, headers and exhaust on a street car and it went from 166 at the wheels to 188 - if memory serves. With a race exhaust and programmable ECU I'd hope to get the car into the 190s. That would give me the power to compete - I recall torque was good but don't remember the rating.
The build will be basic but expensive. I'll buy top of the line shocks like JRZ, Penske or Moton. A variety of springs for different tracks, big sway bars, lots of spherical bits, camber plates etc. Cage will be done to improve structural rigidity - no kit cages. Not planning on doing bushings unless I feel the car needs even more chassis help. Big, extra light 17 inch wheels and a ton of test and tune days. That'll get me on track. Don't know about doing a diff for the car or what gearing - I'll let somebody else pave that road first.
I've owned a Boxster before and used to say the handling defied gravity - plus legendary Porsche reliability.
I may need to add some cooling capacity based on what I've read, but I recall flogging my street Boxster at LRP for an entire day at full punishment and it never moved the temps.
I have even contemplated sale of the stock car so I'd have like $25K to put into this, put the stocker on racingjunk.com and immediately got bites - not so sure I'm ready to sell it. I can do the Boxster and keep the stocker - just would make it a slow build while driving it on the street. (Get the Boxster inspected and then start playing.) That stock car is the ultimate track toy - just nobody to race in the NE. Still planning on getting my ass kicked in GT1 just to have some guys to run against. Although at regionals I was able to finish in the top 5 often against GT1 guys so maybe I won't suck that bad.
I have heard the Boxster motor is not easy to work on at all - leaving it alone for now.
I am all ears on suggestions for making this a fast car.
Cheers,
Ben
Who is going to do the cage for you? We have a great guy doing a couple for us. Let me know and I can get you some pricing if you want.
I'm thinking $9500 when it is all back together. Pulled the motor to clean it up and remove the EGR over the winter. Would consider knocking some off to not have to put it back together though...Quote:
Price?
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