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Saw that the Runoffs is moving to Heartland Park Topeka for 2006-2008. It is front page news on the scca website:
http://www.scca.com/index.asp
Here is a somewhat behind the scenes explanation posted on Honda-Tech:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1106285
Barry H.
I've never been to HPT, but if the facilities are anything like those at Blackhawk Farms (also owned by Ray Irwin), I don't want to go. While the track is really nice (especially with the new blacktop) and it is a great spectator track (cars can be seen on the main straight and back section almost all the time), the bathrooms and infield roads are absolutely horrible. For the past 2 years, there has been no hot water in the mens room, 9 out of 10 times there were no paper towels, I don't ever remember soap, and I'm not sure that they have ever been cleaned.
Yeah, I'm there to race. But, in order to do more I'd like sponsors. I'd be embarassed to bring them to that track with those facilities.
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
We're all surprised by this, right?? http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
Bill - in all fairness, HPT is cleaner and better maintained than your description of Blackhawk. It's Ray's "show" track, and he's been spending a bunch of $$ on it.
Bill, Thank You for stating the facts of Blackhawk Farms. I have been wanting to state the facts as you have ever since some of the people who since the Park deal have talking up the Farm as the greatest place since Disney World. Yes the resurfaced track is great....
Norm, if the Irwin brothers run the Park like they run the Farm it will be a sad deal. But then IIRC I read that the city coughed up $5,000,000. (Edit: My original comment was $3,000,000)
If they have learned anything at the Farm I would hope they implement what they learned at the Park.
Have Fun http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
David Dewhurst
[This message has been edited by ddewhurst (edited January 06, 2005).]
Yeah, I know about HPT. I've read about it and wondered why BHF track rental is so high. Then I realized he had to pay for HPT somehow...
Sorry if I seem bitter. It's been a bad day.
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
Not surprised at all. After competing in another form of motorsports for years where the annual championships were held in Arizona and bitching under my breath every year that they should be more centrally located this move makes sense to me as long as the show is up to par with what it has been in the past.
One idea I always liked was alternating the events between West and East or somewhere closer to the middle. If the fall '04 championship was in the East there would be a correspondingly big spring race in '05 on the West to kick the year off. Then that fall the championship would return to the West with the next spring kick off in the East.
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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv
This should be a good move,over the long haul. While us Nor'easters like the convenience of MO, face it--is travel to Ohio fair to the Leftcoasters?
Of course not.
This is a big club and perhaps a little sacrifice and travel fairness is appropriate.
Equal inconvenience never hurts.
Cheers.
I've been too Heartland Park, though I have never driven it. Mid-ohio is a much superior drivers track with different radius corners, and elevation changes etc. Unless it has changed, the front straght at Heartland is part of the drag strip and its rather flat and as far as I could tell, not as exciting. I was last there in 1995 so I'm sure some things have changed. Cmon guys, give Blackhawk a break. Can't we find some kind of charm in the place. I will admit though, after alot of rain, it does become a big swamp, and you can't find a decent restaurant in the whole area.
They've made some fairly major changes in the last couple of years. The drag strip is now totally off the racing surface (one of NHRA's requirements, I think), and turn 14 is not as open. There is now a "wiggle" (turn 0) about 2/3 of the way down, and the loop to the right is gone.
I ran at Heartland Park for the very first ever National weekend. When was that; 1988-89? Held the track record in SSA for a while after that weekend (grin). I attended a second event there some time later; I remember it being fun, safe, but fairly boring...
I regularly run at HPT. That being said, I also ran at the Runoffs for the first time in Sep. In it's current state, HPT has a long way to go. HPT is not completely flat, but it doesn't have the elevation change that MO does. Ray DID move the front straight off the dragstrip and added an uphill L/R kink in the new front straight that is pretty much blind. From what I've read, he will also be repaving the entire track, including the old carousel portion that hasn't been used in years.
There's a lot of paddock space, but it's short on bathrooms, showers, grandstands (spectator viewing is lacking in general), there are no garages, minimal elec hookups, and the tech area has no shelter at all. Needless to say, Ray has a bunch of work to do. It's one thing to get the Runoffs, it's another thing to keep racers coming back.
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#59 SSC Neon
Wichita Region
Yes, I know it's not an IT car... yet... :)
All I remember about Heartland Park is the Golden Horse Shoe! Probably the worst topless bar I've ever seen. If your into cigarrette burns, bruises and missing teeth, it's a great place. Certainly it's no Mid Ohio. Still, with SCCA moving to Topeka Ray Charles could have seen this one coming. It'll be interesting to see the numbers of workers and racers that make the trip. Makes me kinda glad that IT is not a National class.
From what Rocky Entriken wrote, it sounds like some new surface is going to be made.
Of the few tracks that responded, I think HPT is a good choice. It is more towards the geographic center of the country. It has a town to support it. It should cut costs because we don't have to pay SCCA employee's to travel and such.
The track used to totally suck IMHO. But I'm told its better, and it sounds like the new changes they are making will make it great.
Regardless, change is good for the program. It would be nice if someday they could do a 6 year contract with 2 tracks alternating, but that may never happen.
Now that's funny!Quote:
Originally posted by BMW RACER:
All I remember about Heartland Park is the Golden Horse Shoe! Probably the worst topless bar I've ever seen....
I'm sure one of the things holding back the PRI move to Orlando was Indy's famous Classy Chassis. Hey, at least it was auto themed!
G
Oops.
[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited January 07, 2005).]
Planned facility layout for 2006:
http://www.hpt.com/06runoffs-map.pdf
Lots of additional paddock space, spectator areas, concessions, bathrooms, showers....plus a complete repaving in Fall orf '05. (Good - I really want to run the Carousel portion of the track again!)
Of course it's spun because it's their site, but this makes for some good reading: http://www.hpt.com/06runoffs.htm
Jarrod
I drove there in 1990 in the first 'IT Festival' which later morphed into the ARRC.
The configuration that we ran used the fast left hand sweeper at the end of the straight (Wildcat??) and bypassed the carousel.
At the time, I was running my ITB 84 CRX and felt I was at a HP disadvantage to the other ITB cars. Keep in mind that this WAS in 1990 when the car was still classed in ITB instead of its present ITC classification. When we ran, the track was still fairly new and the surface was fantastic. It was, to this date, the smoothest track I had ever driven on, including Road America. I haven't driven there since but obviously the years of neglect plus midwest winters have taken their toll on the surface. I have full confidence that Ray will take car of this issue. When asked what I thought of the track (when I ran it in '90) I jokingly replied, "if they would just tear up the front straight and put a couple of corners in its place, it would be a real fun track". After looking at the proposed new layout, it seems like my joke will become reality. The track does have some elevation changes, but they are subtle. I distinctly remember a slight climb on the straight leading the chicane, and a downhill drop after the left-right-left at the end of the back straight. I thought that the track (at the time) was very technical. You had to be very patient with the tight corners in order to get a decent exit, otherwise you would just push out wide, no matter what type of car you drove (FWD or RWD). The fast sweeper at the end of the straight was very fast and reminded me of IRP's turn 1 but slower; but I suspect the Runoffs would use the longer course with the carousel and therefor bypass this corner. I also liked the left-right-left combo on the back straight. The 'Ichobod' section is new and looks interesting. I've never driven the carousel section but from the video, it too looks fun and I hope it's used for the Runoffs. I felt the track configuration that we ran did favor horsepower primarily due to the quantity of slow tight corners, but I was able to hold my own in my Honda compared to the BMW's and Volvos that ran in the same class. The newer configuration looks like it will make HP less important and put some emphasis back in the handling/driving department. Lastely, while the track configuration that we ran in '90 didn't have that 'spark' like Mid-Ohio or Road Atlanta from a pure driving point of view, I did feel it was a fun track to race at , and had some good passing opportunities. (Coming from a low HP car, I feel the same way about Road America in that the novelty of driving the track has worn off, but I've had some of the most fun racing there). I have the same feeling about Mid-ohio with the Keyhole. While I enjoy driving and racing the track with the Keyhole, I prefer the Runoffs without it since it makes for better racing and more passing opportunities. Hopefully, with the Runoffs-caliber racing groups, the racing will be equally as fun. With that in mind, and also knowing what Ray is capable of doing, I'll keep any negative comments to myself until I see how the track turns out. For now I'll remain cautiously optamostic.
And for all you guys slamming Blackhawk, believe me, it is a huge, huge improvemment compared to how it was when it was run by the previous owner back in the 70's before Ray bought it.
[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited January 07, 2005).]
Greg, I agree with you regarding Blackhawk. It was brutal before Ray Irwin bought it. I really like the place. Its a laid back atmosphere. Everyone is friendly, and being small it allows opportunities to go and socialize. I love driving it. You are always busy, the corners are varied, and it is technical and rewards a good set up. The paddock is fine as long as you know where the dry ground is during a hard rain. There is plenty of shade and where we setup is like a park with the trees etc. We can let our kids run around and not worry about them getting run over. We in the Milwaukee metro area are very fortunate to have so many tracks within a 2 hour tow. We shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth and just be happy we can race on many different weekends during the summer, and not have to waste tons of time driving to get to a track. Every year at Blackhawk there is an upgrade, whether its a new track surface, to regrading the paddock roads, something is always getting done. But, I still contend there are no good restaurants in the S. Beloit/Rockton area.
--Bill
P.S. Planet 6 Bill, I will be more than happy to loan you some paper towels this upcoming season at Blackhawk. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif We have a red EZ-Up canopy and I run a red ITA CRXsi #16 (or maybe #23) come on over.
[This message has been edited by B Schley (edited January 07, 2005).]
[This message has been edited by B Schley (edited January 07, 2005).]
Thanks! My system now is just to use the ads that are posted on the wall. I always wondered why they posted them inside... http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
Planet 6-
Actually, thats all those ads are really good for. Maybe we can take up a collection and donate rolls of paper towels and hand soap in lieu of a worker fund at Blackhawk
--Bill
I know this has gone completely off topic, but...
From what I have heard, BHF is not a cheap track to rent. Maybe the regions should put a little pressure on BHF to spruce up the place.
Then again, why would Ray care? His other "jewel" just landed the Runoffs...
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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com