Dave’s rotor failure – video & the aftermath

Several people sent me messages curious about the hub failure and offering their assistance sourcing a replacement part. This is yet another perfect example of how we’re a part of a racing community. I sincerely appreciate all of the help people have offered; it continues to amaze me how much support people provide even when they don’t know another person very well. Instead of continuing the discussion in the other thread, I thought I’d post a new one.

In Sunday’s qualifying race, I had a wheel snap off causing me to lose control of the car and end up in a tire wall. When I first felt the back end come lose and heard an extremely loud “BOOM!”, I thought that I had made contact with another car. But how? I just checked my rear view and didn’t see anyone even close? Vaughn’s video captures it all in his rear view. When playing it in slow motion with the aid of the pause button, I was pretty amazed with how high the back end of my car got during the sequence of events.

Vaughn's Video of my incident

Here is a picture of how the rotor should look and the remains of the failed rotor.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2...edrotorur4.jpg

On the Prelude, there is no separate hub. When I purchase the new rotors, I’ll be sure to get the best ones available.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6931/intacten0.jpg

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3835/goodsidedt4.jpg

Although there’s a fair amount of damage caused by the wheel snapping off, the car is actually in pretty good shape. I’m afraid to say just how minor it appears to be and what needs to be replace in order to get the car out on the track next as I might jinx myself. If that’s all that truly needs to be replace, the destroyed tire will be the worst of it. Thank you again for all the assistance that was offered!! :happy204:

Now THAT is a failure.

Dave, looked like your car got 2-3 feet in the air at least. Nasty. Did it do much damage to the right rear suspension?

Dave neglected to mention something we cleared up via email yesterday: the hard-to-get part is NOT the "hub", as he told us at Mid-Ohio. The hard-to-get part is actually the SPINDLE.

So, as long as he keeps those bearings in good shape - and doesn't snap off a spindle - he's OK for now on getting replacement parts.

Dave, do take the time to check out the caliper and caliper bracket on that side; it had to take a HELL of a hit to be able to snap off that rotor ring like that... - GA

It was great that you made it out of such a harrowing incident. You said the car was okay. What about the damage to the driver's suit?

Looking at the Honda parts catalog it says the "carrier, left rear hub" is "not available" and the "carrier, right rear hub" lists "Vintage Parts Inc." as the source. That's wierd that Honda doesn't even offer them anymore.

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What about the damage to the driver's suit?[/b]

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I was smart this offseason - I bought a yellow drivers suit. :)

Yeah, it's hard to believe how old the Prelude really is now. Vintage parts. :( The parts still on the cars can be found at junk yards, but the problem I've run into is taking it off the A arm suspension piece (probably the wrong term for that). I actually have two in my basement from a parts car I had, but we tried everything to get the large bolt out and absolutely nothing worked. We heated that thing up, soaked it for days, put 2,000 lbs of pressure trying to get it out, everything on can think of. A junk yard in CT found one, but they too couldn't get the bolts out.

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Did it do much damage to the right rear suspension?[/b]

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I still really need to inspect the car further and take it for a gentle ride around the block, but it doensn't appear that there's any damage to the suspension. Even the rim looks o.k. I'm keeping my fingers crossed I truly am this lucky.

Ugh...muy rusto...

Dave-

At least you don't need a press to put that thing back together!!! lol If you ever need one, we have one in the trailer now as a result of our hub failure at Mid-Ohio!!!

It gets expensive and heavy to cary around spares, but if you have some in the basement I would get the ready for a bolt on application when you travel, it sucks having a 1 hr easy repair keep you out of the action for the rest of the weekend... Especially because it it an unobtainable part. I was bummed you couldn't make it out to the race :(

Raymond "Good thing Harbor Freight is only 20 minutes from Mid Ohio" Blethen

I went to the parts store and purchased some new rotors. When buying them, I purchased the best ones they carried which happens to be Bendix rotors at $65 each. I then went into the garage curious if the part number inscribed on the old ones would be close (they didn't state the brand name on them), and it was essentially a match. I was actually hoping that last time I was cheap and went with an inferrior rotor. Now I'm a bit nervous to use the Bendix rotors, although over the past several years I've never experienced any issues with them before. Should I feel reasonably o.k. with using these rotors and simply replace them more frequently, or are Bendix rotors not so great after all?

I saw some Brembo rotors on another website that were much cheaper, but it made me question how good they would be (strong).

For what it's worth, Dave, I use Brembo rotors, purchased online. But, I believe Brembo is the OE supplier for Nissan, so...I buy mine at All OEM Auto Parts (http://www.alloemautoparts.com) and they show to stock Brembo rear rotors for your car for $26 each (free shipping over $75...) I've had great service and pricing from this company for years (they even CALL ME via telephone when I order four front rotors online, just to make sure I didn't intend to order two front and two rear...) and I usually see parts on my doorstep the next day (they ship from NJ).

If given a choice between cheaper rotors replaced more often, or more expensive ones driven to failure, I'd obviously pick the former. I suggest unless you're willing to do some kind of non-destructive testing (e.g, FPI or Magnaflux) on those rotors, that you replace them on a regular basis, maybe even every other weekend... - GA

$26 is cheap insurance. (Reminds me of Z06 rotor prices).

I know this failure sucks but I have to ask, how many races were on this part, has this failure ever happened before. Was there any damage on the old piece that would indicate if it was cracked for a while such as rust?

Dave can address the life-of-part issue, but I inspected the pieces visually afterwards. Looks like a sudden and catastrophic failure, maybe where a crack developed on a radius and it let go.

But, it wasn't "working" a crack very long (virtually no evidence of fatigue cracking propagation), which led to my comment about "pot metal". The propagation didn't appear to start at rust or damage, it just suddenly let go. Of course, with iron castings you don't get the luxury of a lot of cycles before it starts separating to failure.

I'd love to look at that part under a microscope; there was so little evidence of "working" I'm wondering if it wasn't just a clean failure due to overstress... - GA

Between the Brembos and Bendix rotors:

I'm surprised that the Brembos are that much less expensive than the Bendix rotors. Heck, I can buy both Brembos for the price of just one Bendix rotor. Right now I'm struggling with determining which are truly the better and have a lesser chance of failing. I realize that pricing does not necessarily dictate quality, but I suppose I've been brainwashed to wonder with such a large price difference. Right now I'm leaning towards returning the Bendix and buying the Brembos. Brembo does have a great reputation.

What does it matter, they're ALL made in China these days...

Buy two sets of Brembos and swap them out halfway through the season proactively.

Of course for you, that would be what, every 1 or two events? :)

When Honda has parts they consider "obsolete" they contract with a company called Vintage Parts to handle the storage and shipping in order to free up space in their warehouses for parts that are in demand. The phone number for Vintage Parts is 877-846-8243. They will confirm availability and ship the part to you. They do take credit cards. The spindle p/n for the right side for an 87 Prelude SI is 52210-sb0-030, they show to have 3 in inventory and the price is $138.52. Unfortunately, there is no inventory for the left side.

Good luck getting the car back together. :023:

By the way the stock rotors are available p/n 42510-SF0-000, but they are expensive :o $112.03 each.

Dave-

The failure is simply a result of you driving far to fast... lol

Was their any sign of bearing failure (heat)? or was it the rotor all alone? generally when our front hubs go it is a result of the bearings starting to sieze up. We don't trust the hubs that much either and as we have learned you can't re-use/press hubs a lot thus we simply replace the entire corner (hub and bearing).

Raymond

Fixed wast to fast ;) lol

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Dave-

The failure is simply a result of you driving far to wast... lol


Raymond [/b]

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Damn wasclwy wabbits.

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Of course for you, that would be what, every 1 or two events?[/b]

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Yeah, only five race weekends for me this year because I've choosen some larger events including the Mid Ohio event of course, and then the ARRC. Maybe next year I'll skip the ARRC and use my funds for more events. One event that I'll miss this year is the Labor Day double at Summit Point. Fortunately I was able to instruct at a few HPDEs and do some test & tuning (plus obtain instruction myself) a few times.


The bearings didn't seize and are still rotate very freely, although I am replacing them.

I came across this place when I was looking to replace my Honda CRX WWiper stalk. They may carry the spindles. After a ride like that, I would replace as much as possible back there.

http://www.hondaacurasalvage.com/