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I'm doing a little research, and...
Can anybody point me to a good source of info for spec Miata? Rules? Parts sources? Hot tricks? Best year and options? Hints? A web site maybe?
Thanks!
Also, what do you all think of the potential of a Miata as an ITA car???
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Jake Gulick
ITA 57 RX-7
Northeast Region
[email protected]
There's a SM website somewhere. Try looking on one of the Texas region websites for a link. I used to frequent the site when I was considering a SM but forgot the address.
Chris
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Chris Ludwig
08 ITS RX7 CenDiv
Jake,
Try:
www.specmiata.com
www.prospecmiata.com
www.mazdaspeedcup.com
Not sure about all the rules for SM, but I think most of the parts have to be sourced from Mazda Comp.
the 90-93 miata is in ITA(2205#), the 94-95 is in ITS(2200#).
The last regional at Laguna Seca (7/20-7/21) had 53 cars in the IT run group. The fastest lap in ITS was a BMW at 1.55.717, ITA 1:58.007 (new record) and SM was 1:58.751. At the Miata race w/CART the top 7 Miatas were faster than the ITS 1.55.717 time. Pole was a 1.49...that's cat back exhaust, tokico shocks tires other than Hoosiers. Looks like the the Miata would be a very competitive car. More probably aren't run in IT because SM exists. Why not build a SM and run it in Nationals, enter it in IT at regionals?
"The last regional at Laguna Seca (7/20-7/21) had 53 cars in the IT run group, SM was 1:58.751. "At the Miata race w/CART the top 7 Miatas were faster than the ITS 1.55.717 time. Pole was a 1.49..."
10 seconds faster, gimme a break, you dont smell something really rotten there?, I know of at least one of those 7 cars from another class and it wasnt legal there either.
until SCCA has a real post race teardown policy I wont bother with any of its spec classes. at least with Improved Touring I know why I got smoked.
[This message has been edited by 7'sRracing (edited August 04, 2002).]
Uh .....you do? Fill us in! Was it:Quote:
Originally posted by 7'sRracing:
[B]
10 seconds faster, gimme a break, you dont smell something really rotten there?, I know of at least one of those 7 cars from another class and it wasnt legal there either.
at least with Improved Touring I know why I got smoked.
B]
-Bad classing?
-A cam in that car up front?
-He was underweight?
-He ran illegal suspension parts?
-His valves were a tad oversized?
-His compression was statospheric?
(I always chuckle when a guy pulls out because of a blown head gasket, and won't let anyone that happens to have one help him put it back together! I've seen that twice!)
-He was legal, but was still 400 lbs lighter and on the same tires?
But, that said, your point is well taken....there should be no squaking about tighter policing....
On the other hand, did you look at the driver list? A lot of pros...and, are the rules the same between pro and spec?
Anyway, care to name names?
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Jake Gulick
ITA 57 RX-7
Northeast Region
[email protected]
Daryl,
So you think that at a race with that much MONEY and bragging rights at stake that someone is going to get away with some illegal parts that are worth 9 seconds a lap??? Do you have any guess what kind of parts you'd have to hang on your rx7 to make it 9 seconds a lap faster? A street port, slicks and -100lbs. might get you close(EP), but I doubt you'd sneak that by anyone.
I also know that you just recently finished your school, I bet that you get at least 5 seconds a lap faster than you are now, without changing anything on the car. Driver ability will take you a long way.
Your other brother,
Daryl
[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited August 04, 2002).]
ok good point D, I should give all the benefit of racing a hard race and congradulate all for thier fine drives. I wasnt there so im not sure what was checked and what wasnt and even with all the illegal goodies mentioned above I still would have been way down in that pack. my point on spec classes is dont make rules you cant or wont enforce, nascar had this down pat 30 years ago. they realized that it wasnt posible in the sat night divisions to check rods at every race so they allowed any rod in the late model division, but compression (gauge), carb (micrometer) and displacment (bubble tester) was easy so thats where they placed limitations and check the top three at every race, across the country, no exceptions. it only takes 10 minutes a car!
no rules(which is what unchecked rules are) or enforcable rules, which would you rather have?
[This message has been edited by 7'sRracing (edited August 05, 2002).]
Jake
Narrc uses the rules on www.drivenperformance.com. I hope you resist the pull of the dark side, but if you don't I will give you a few hundred for your rx7
dick
If I am racing against people with smaller budgets than I...no rules, of course! Since that's never been the case I guess I would like enforceable rules. The unenforced rules are not limited to the spec classes, if anything those competitors or more intimately familiar with the cars and what works and what doesn't to notice illegal things.Quote:
Originally posted by 7'sRracing:
no rules(which is what unchecked rules are) or enforcable rules, which would you rather have?
By the way, I could not find the info, so I didn't quote it earlier. But, I remeber seeing that (after qualifying?) 17 of the 70 cars were found to have modified exhaust downtubes. So at least they were checking something.
[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited August 05, 2002).]
lets put ourselves in techs shoes which by the way IS WHERE I WILL BE IN CAL CLUB SOON FOR THOSE LISTENING IN as I have decided to race SFR and work in tech for cal club because i like t-hill, laguna so much.
what should we make the standard post race inspection list for spec miatas to keep the devious in line?
Im going to recommend the following for the top 3 finishers for SM in CSCC.
1..Compression check on all 4 cylinders
2..timing setting check(this finds cams)
3..fuel sample
4..weight bias (illegal lead)
5..intake and exhaust port visual inspection
another list would be suggested for spot checks but im not going there here
[This message has been edited by 7'sRracing (edited August 05, 2002).]
7's
how does checking timing find cams? what do you look for.
dic
Why would IT be any better it this respect? Cheaters are cheaters, regardless of wether they cheat in IT or GT.Quote:
Originally posted by 7'sRracing:
until SCCA has a real post race teardown policy I wont bother with any of its spec classes. at least with Improved Touring I know why I got smoked.
[This message has been edited by 7'sRracing (edited August 04, 2002).]
Correction: the ENTIRE FIELD, all 69 cars that finished, were faster than 1.55.717. Here're the race results:Quote:
Originally posted by Quickshoe:
At the Miata race w/CART the top 7 Miatas were faster than the ITS 1.55.717 time. Pole was a 1.49
http://specmiatawest.netfirms.com/MazdaSpe...ay/results2.jpg
And results from this past weekend:
http://specmiatawest.netfirms.com/events/r...ALS080402.shtml
I'm rather surprised at the ITS and ITA time at Seca being that high. Are they correct?
Son
ps - I was there to root on some friends. Car is just a used street car w/ spec suspension slapped on, like so many others. He's never been to Seca before and ran 1:53s. Are you sure the ITA/ITS times/records are correct???
[This message has been edited by 94sm (edited August 06, 2002).]
Here's my source:Quote:
Originally posted by 94sm:
I'm rather surprised at the ITS and ITA time at Seca being that high. Are they correct?
www.sfrscca.org/Results/20020721/gr5.htm
I was also surprised by the times. I thought that faster than a 1:50 was very fast for a SM, 1:58 seems really slow for an ITA record. I have limited seat time there but turned a 1:57 or so in a stock Mr2 on Kumhos. Wasn't ever able to get my rx7 quiet enough without killing the HP.
Can someone familiar with the track confirm the track records?
[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited August 06, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Quickshoe (edited August 06, 2002).]
Just pulled these from a random event last year, looks like the fastest ITS car was running 1:45s.
http://www.sfrscca.org/Results/20010715/gr5.htm
PaulC
Same event you referenced Paul shows ITA cars at 1.48 with no notation of it being a lap record.
What gives with the website listing the new records at the last regional? Furthermore, why so slow, rain in JULY? Clockwise(joke)?
So jake would you have to put the seat in the trunk?
Scott 99
Well, Dick, I hope I can too! But our future looks bleak here! More cars getting classed that are way fast, no IT7 class availability...a guys got to have a back up plan! (and yes, I know I can get more time out of the car....but I wonder if i will end up a second or two short....)Quote:
Originally posted by dickita15:
Jake
Narrc uses the rules on www.drivenperformance.com. I hope you resist the pull of the dark side, but if you don't I will give you a few hundred for your rx7
dick
Nice to know if I decide to toss it in that theres a cuople hun waiting for me! You the man!
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Jake Gulick
ITA 57 RX-7
Northeast Region
[email protected]
get the rest of the ITA RX7 guys in your region to sign a petition for your board of governers to create IT7 to run in the IT group, this is how it was started in every other region. if they say no boycott the races then repetition. entry money talks. it wont work here in so cal because theres no rx7 ITA left except mine and one other.
[This message has been edited by 7'sRracing (edited August 07, 2002).]
Thanks PaulC for rechecking those lap times. I was going to say there is no way that a spec miata would be legal and faster then a well prepared front running ITS car. At Second Creek in Colorado earlier this year my fastest lap time was a second faster then the fastest spec miata and 1.5 seconds faster then the next fastest miata. I drive an ITS RX7 that is a good car but there is still a lot more developing that can be done including a 4:88 rear end rather then the stock 4:10. For those that haven't been to Second Creek it is a handling track (lots of slow turns and a couple of short straights). So the fact that I have a lot more horsepower then the miatas, wasn't that much of a factor. We also had 20 spec miatas at that race.
Hey 7's-
Well, we're in the same boat...not too many left...they've gone spec Miataing, or Eproding, or to ITS.
I actually threw it out on the North East section of the forum earlier, and basically got the ole' "quit whining treatment"! (I was just wondering, too!)
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Jake Gulick
ITA 57 RX-7
Northeast Region
[email protected]
ran up against a "Wyle E Wire" characture did ya.
were fighting the "work for test day" battle right now out here.
[This message has been edited by 7'sRracing (edited August 07, 2002).]
Hey guys, bring your RX-7's up here to Calgary, in Canada, street-port 'em, and join in the Challenge Car class. zoom zoom.....
Street-ported motors for $2500.00 Canadian money, like about $1.49 US
( I know it's not gonna happen, but I thought I'd mention it anyway...)
B. Carter -
I'm in Washington State, and I would love to hear some Canadian rotary engine builder recommendations! A lot of the guys that used to build race rotaries down here just don't anymore. A nice $2500 Canadian dollar street port might just be to hard to pass up!
Boswoj
Hey Boswoj,
Call Adam at RX-7 Specialties at 1-403-246-6980. Tell him Brooke sent ya'
He does great motors. He is in business so don't expect him to unload a ton of advice for free over the phone, that's what he gets paid for, but he is a good guy, and builds motors for people all over the place, USA, Europe etc. With headers, stock carb, stock fuel pump/lines and stock engine bits, my streetport is putting out about 170 hp.
Bcarter, you got 170 hp out of a street ported 12A with a stock manifiold, carb and headers? Funny thing is I got 168 hp at 8,000 rpms out of a 12A without ports with a header, stock 79 manifold and carb. You need to find different engine builder. My engine builder and I put my motor together under the supervision of and in the presence of our chief of tech and I am sure it's legal. My engine builder specializes in blown alcohol drag motors and he is very particular on putting a motor together right and making power. Email me and I'll give you his name & #
whoooooa I WANT THAT ADRESS TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im assuming you guys aren't talking rear wheel HP, right?
Any idea what the conversion would be?
I would love to know what guys are getting for rear wheel numbers.
I'll tell if you tell.....
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Jake Gulick
ITA 57 RX-7
Northeast Region
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited August 09, 2002).]
If your looking for someone that builds really good rotor motors try Tony Rivera of TR rotorsports. His prices are very reasonable and his motors are awesome. He has the fastest first Gen E-prod. RX7 in the country right now and he won the June Sprints last year and finished 3rd at the runoffs. He lives in Colorado. His phone # is (303)981-2916.
Mike, I want the address of your guy as well. We all run streetports up here, and I pull as well as any of them, in fact I've won the class in the last 5 races, so we are all getting much the same hp. I dynoed mine on a chassis dyno, so the dyno guy used a factor of some sort to go from wheel hp to flywheel...maybe he got it wrong. My engine guy figures the best he's got from a streetport is 180...
[This message has been edited by bcarter (edited August 09, 2002).]
168 hp out of a legal ITA motor? If this is true, how are these not the dominant car in ITA?Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Cox:
Bcarter, you got 170 hp out of a street ported 12A with a stock manifiold, carb and headers? Funny thing is I got 168 hp at 8,000 rpms out of a 12A without ports with a header, stock 79 manifold and carb. You need to find different engine builder. My engine builder and I put my motor together under the supervision of and in the presence of our chief of tech and I am sure it's legal. My engine builder specializes in blown alcohol drag motors and he is very particular on putting a motor together right and making power. Email me and I'll give you his name & #
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
I agree, Bill, somehow it doesn't look like the math adds up. But the on-track result is hard to argue with. Maybe higher frictional losses, aerodynamics, or something w/ the RX7 vs. CRX/240/Integra, I don't know.
What I do know is that the CRX I drove at Daytona in May had no trouble catching and passing the IT7 cars on the banking. They were just pointing me by, because they knew there was nothing they could do about it. And the car I drove had a 120K motor, not some OPM-built rocket engine.
At the ARRC in 2000 (last time I went), the top IT7 guys (some of the fastest 12A RX7s in the country) were turning mid to high 1:47s, versus Bob Stretch (240SX) and Bob Endicott (King Motorsports CRX) who were in the high 1:43s.
I can argue the math, but not the results. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/confused.gif
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Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7 #35
[email protected]
Chris,
I agree, it's really hard to argue w/ a watch. I'm just really curious if an IT legal 12A can make 168hp. Unless the car only has 20 ft-lb of torque, or the gearing is that abysmal, I would think they would be faster. Anybody got dyno sheets that supports the 168hp #?
Like Kirk, I don't know 'dinkus' about rotaries (other than I can sure as heck tell when one lights off at 7:00AM on Sat. AM in the paddock!)
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
Chris & Bill-
I am almost up to knowing "dinkus" about rotaries...I drive one. But I my engine work is strictly R & R! That said, when I get out of the corner with the other guys in ITA RX-7s, I run right with them...with stock gearing. MY dyno #s? 107 at the rear wheels. Now I know all dynos are not created equal, and the conversion factor can be discussed forever, but I agree....168 is to DIE for !
A note about the Honda CRX vs. RX-7 thing: There is no question that a CRX cleans my clock powerwise.....but more than that, follwing one through a corner is a eye opening experience....they can kill the apex berms, up on two wheels, sideways, or leave a foot at the apex AND a foot at the track in/out and still carry more speed than my hundreds of pounds heavier, live axled antique! I know I can improve the nut behind the wheel, but I can't see how a well driven CRX will ever be threatened by us RX-7 drivers!
It's too bad....I'd love to see a battle at the front between a Cosworth Vega, an RX-7, a 2002, a Golf, and a CRX/Integra!
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Jake Gulick
ITA 57 RX-7
Northeast Region
[email protected]
You got to drive like Ray Leechee.
I'm starting to feel better about my 170 hp. I know my engine guy well enough to know that he is giving me good power with the streetport, the straight is enough to show me I have a decent engine, among the 10 or so other streetports out there. We figure about 134.5 hp at the wheels. If you can get 168 out mof a stock motor, the builder must be doing something else. We run stock stuff aside from the ports.