TST - ITR Mustang Acquired

Well, this post might be a bit premature but I've acquired a Mustang with the intentions to build an ITR car. I don't plan on starting the build anytime soon but with all the ITR talk I'm a bit excited. I'd not expect this car on track before 2011 but maybe later in 2010 it'll show up at some track days for testing.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/mustang.jpg

I'm pretty excited about having it around just so I'll have a manual transmission car to drive on a daily basis.

A lot of you already know I'm a Ford nut so this was bound to happen sooner than later. And since I'm not getting any younger...

Wanna race? :D

http://www.improvedtouring.com/galle...hp?imageid=329

Earl, that is going to be a strong ITR car. If I wasn't such a Ford nerd I'd get one of those. I think the Camaro might have a slight edge in chassis layout and aero. That motor is so far back in the Camaro chassis it should have a front mid-engine adder!

Cool car - you making it into an ITR car?

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

Earl, that is going to be a strong ITR car. If I wasn't such a Ford nerd I'd get one of those. I think the Camaro might have a slight edge in chassis layout and aero. That motor is so far back in the Camaro chassis it should have a front mid-engine adder!

Cool car - you making it into an ITR car?

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Yes, I bought it just for ITR. It will probably be 2012 before it goes on track - I'm enjoying driving it way more than I thought I would - but as is the case with yours it will get some track time between now and then. I've had it out a couple of times already in fact, and so far I've found nothing to discourage me from moving forward.

My only concern with this car is weight; it goes 3250 empty as it sits now. Add 300 lbs for a cage & driver and it's a looooooong way to 2800. On the plus side, there are tons of aftermarket suspension parts for the V8 cars that will work on the six (I'm sure the same with the 'stang), and the brakes are definitely up to the task.

I actually looked at an '03 Mustang before I bought the Camaro (I'm a Cheby guy, but not so much so that I wouldn't defect for a better ride); the power was nice but I thought the turning felt a little sluggish - which is strange considering every article I've ever read give the 'stang the edge in handling. Should be a fast, fun ITR car though.

Oh, and is there a drag strip down in the VIR neighborhood??? If I can't beat you on one track, maybe I can get you on another :D

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Originally Posted by erlrich

My only concern with this car is weight; it goes 3250 empty as it sits now. Add 300 lbs for a cage & driver and it's a looooooong way to 2800. On the plus side, there are tons of aftermarket suspension parts for the V8 cars that will work on the six (I'm sure the same with the 'stang), and the brakes are definitely up to the task.

I actually looked at an '03 Mustang before I bought the Camaro (I'm a Cheby guy, but not so much so that I wouldn't defect for a better ride); the power was nice but I thought the turning felt a little sluggish - which is strange considering every article I've ever read give the 'stang the edge in handling. Should be a fast, fun ITR car though.

Oh, and is there a drag strip down in the VIR neighborhood??? If I can't beat you on one track, maybe I can get you on another :D

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I'll weigh mine on my scales and report back here. I know I'll have the same problem as you, getting the car down to weight. But, even at say 2900 lbs I think the cars have a good shot.

Yep, these two cars are very inexpensive to obtain parts for. I don't say build because I haven't done that yet, but due to the volume of the aftermarket high quality coil overs, camber plates, struts, bars, bushings, etc. are comparatively inexpensive. Simple cars and I do look forward to building it late in 2010.

Going to pick it up tomorrow morning and I'll report back my impressions.

Objectively I'd give the nod to the Camaro for ITR but I've got to do a Ford. I'm looking forward to seeing your build and seeing the car.

This is a great development and bodes really well for the future of the class...

K

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Originally Posted by Knestis

This is a great development and bodes really well for the future of the class...

K

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And I'll talk the better driving half of TST into building an ITR something too. Maybe a Bitchinmaro for him.

Congrats on your purchase, Ron! :happy204: The sooner you have it in competition the better! Definitely agree with others that all this bodes well for the class. In fact, I've a friend who is currently building an ITR Firebird. Just picked up the car in NC and towed it back to Ohio...He, too, is making the switch from an ITS Z-car. Look forward to racing against him...

Maybe before all is said and done ITR will look like A Sedan Lite, with a few imports thrown in for sacificial purposes. :D

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Originally Posted by RedMisted

Maybe before all is said and done ITR will look like A Sedan Lite, with a few imports thrown in for sacificial purposes. :D

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I hope ITR will have a large array of cars and if this board is any indication it will. Domestic cars have not been present in any numbers for C,B,A, and S. Maybe this will change for R, I hope so. With the cars classed on a fresh slate and proper classification process it appears that many cars have a chance in ITR, including some Ferds and Chevys.

Ron,

I'd be very interested in the weight numbers you get, since mine was in pieces when we got it. It's repaired now, but it was stripped when it went to the shop. I hope you get the opportunity to get it weighed.

FYI, mine has ABS, but otherwise lacking any significant equipment...nothing special in the build at the factory.

Thanks in advance,

Bill

I haven't picked it up yet. The anti theft module was activated by the owner's employee repeatedly trying to use the wrong key to start the car. They had to take it to the Ford folks but got there so late nobody looked at it before the holidays. So, we shall see what happens with that. Once I pick it up I'll definitely weigh it all up and see what we come up with.

I don't think you're allowed to remove the anti-theft module in IT...

<runs, ducks for cover>

K

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

I haven't picked it up yet. The anti theft module was activated by the owner's employee repeatedly trying to use the wrong key to start the car. They had to take it to the Ford folks but got there so late nobody looked at it before the holidays. So, we shall see what happens with that. Once I pick it up I'll definitely weigh it all up and see what we come up with.

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My guess is that the car will weight around 3050, without floor mats. :)

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Originally Posted by Knestis

I don't think you're allowed to remove the anti-theft module in IT...

<runs, ducks for cover>

K

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That thing is a goner. When I take it out I'll send it to you.:)

My guess is 3160 lbs with a full tank of gas.

Chris, how much is yours weighing in at?

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Originally Posted by Knestis

I don't think you're allowed to remove the anti-theft module in IT...

<runs, ducks for cover>

K

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9.1.3 e. Any ignition system which utilizes the original distributor for spark timing and distribution is permitted.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

My guess is 3160 lbs with a full tank of gas.

Chris, how much is yours weighing in at?

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My quote of 3,050 I saw somewhere online, at one of those new/used car review websites. The number is supposed to be "curb" weight.

My race car tips the scales at about 3,040. That includes driver and just fumes in the tank. You guessed earlier that 2900 is a realistic goal for our cars. I think you're right on, as I could:
1) get some lightweight wheels (should shave 25 lbs.)
2) run Hoosiers instead of heavier Toyos (12 lbs.)
3) remove sound deadening from trunk of car and tranny tunnel (maybe 7 lbs?)
4) acid dip the car (conservative guess of 50 lbs.)
5) I'm slightly overweight (could lose another 5 lbs.)
6) Chucking three fender liners (8 lbs.)
That leaves about 30 more pounds to take out. This would be all the redundant wiring hiding under the dash, cutting down some fasteners, replacing certain existing parts with lighter components, tossing a few trim pieces still inside the car, chucking the rocker panels (they do nothing but collect track grit anyway), etc.

I know. I know. I should already have much of the above out of the car. But that's what you get when you're like lazy old me.:)

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Originally Posted by RedMisted

My race car tips the scales at about 3,040. That includes driver and just fumes in the tank. You guessed earlier that 2900 is a realistic goal for our cars.

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How much do you weigh if you don't mind me asking? If you're only around 5 lbs overweight then I imagine you're in the 150-180lb range, which means a Mustang might be a hard car to get to a decent weight for a large driver. I'm right around 175 lbs and need to be at about 160lbs.

Some other ideas:

Have you removed all the HVAC you legally can?

Light seat?

Light steering wheel/hub adapter?

Cage was designed for as much lightness as possible with 1.5" x 0.095" tube? That will save quite a bit over the 1.75" tube, 13% cage weight specifically if all things are equal.

Both doors gutted?

Stock tank or cell?

Using essential gauges only, using light components? Remove all the stock gauges and hardware when you install your own gauges.

Ditch the parking brake?

All emissions stuff?

Exhaust designed with thin wall tubing?

Shop up a light battery? I know it has to fit the requirements but there is a lot of variation if you drive around to a lot of stores and weigh them.

Light weight lug nuts? I just ditched 1.2 lb using ally lugs in place of some heavy steelies I had.

I know all that stuff is small potatoes but sooner or later a lot of small potatoes adds up to a casserole. Added to the list of some big items you already have you could be knocking 150 lbs out of the car.

I weigh about 155, should be 150. I'm a road cyclist, have lost about 10 lbs. since August. Should lose the five lbs. easily before the first races up here in May/June.

Looking at your list, everything pretty much good, except that I've got the stock tank, a Sparco Evo seat, standard battery from AutoZone, stock gauges, door panels above the NASCAR bars, and the parking brake.

I'll take care of the big stuff first before worrying about things like the gauges. And then I'll eat the whole friggin' casserole! (Wait. I'll probably gain back some of the 10 lbs. if I do that.)

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Originally Posted by RedMisted

Looking at your list, everything pretty much good, except that I've got the stock tank, a Sparco Evo seat,

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And the cell might not help, just depends on the stock tank. I'll weigh a buddy of mine's 12 gal cell that he's getting ready to put into his car. Then you could compare to the stock tank. I'd imagine the stock tank is steel and in the 25-30 lbs range.

On the seat you can probably lose weight. Sparco EVO isn't light at 19 lbs without brackets, and not inexpensive, so a lighter options can probably save your wallet too. A few of the ally seats can get you down in the 12-13 lbs range, with covers and brackets. I recently got a Ultrashield ally seat for my Lola replica and it is right at 11.7 lbs with the brackets and required brace welded on the seat - it was altered to adjust layback and lost a tiny bit of weight in that process.

I know the cage isn't adjustable at this point but how did you guys make out there? BillF suggested the cage will be a big deal and I think that'll be the case. Minimalistic but safe.

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Originally Posted by RedMisted

I weigh about 155, should be 150. I'm a road cyclist, have lost about 10 lbs. since August. Should lose the five lbs. easily before the first races up here in May/June.

Looking at your list, everything pretty much good, except that I've got the stock tank, a Sparco Evo seat, standard battery from AutoZone, stock gauges, door panels above the NASCAR bars, and the parking brake.

I'll take care of the big stuff first before worrying about things like the gauges. And then I'll eat the whole friggin' casserole! (Wait. I'll probably gain back some of the 10 lbs. if I do that.)

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Chris, doesn't your car still have much of the rear stock exhaust? You could loose all of the xtra piping there, just run to dynomax small diameters under the car midway back with turndowns, that should save another 10-15lbs possibly.

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Originally Posted by cjb25hs

Chris, doesn't your car still have much of the rear stock exhaust? You could loose all of the xtra piping there, just run to dynomax small diameters under the car midway back with turndowns, that should save another 10-15lbs possibly.

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That's all gone now. Double pipes/mufflers replaced with singles and the cats have been deleted. The exhaust changes lost me about 35 pounds. I also chucked the manifolds for long tubes.

BillF: Be careful if you swap to long tube headers. I bought off-the-shelf headers from Pacesetter and they hung about 2.4 inches off the ground. I had a race shop modify them to get them up another inch. A better bet is to have customs made for your car as there is alot of room under the floorpan for maximum clearance.

Ron: My cage weighs a bit more than most. I have very tight fitments to maximize safety. In fact, with the doors closed you might be hard pressed to see the cage in the car unless you got real close. McMahan Autosports near Akron, OH built my cage. They're recoginized as one of the finest cage builders in this region. They build cages for several Koni and World Challenge teams.

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BillF: Be careful if you swap to long tube headers. I bought off-the-shelf headers from Pacesetter and they hung about 2.4 inches off the ground. I had a race shop modify them to get them up another inch.

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I saw these headers online for less than $200 for new ones.
Does anyone else make headers for the V6 car?

155 lbs, wow I wish! at 6 ft 250 I got some room to lose weight......haha.

Jethro:

The only company I know making LT headers for the V6 is Pacesetter. MAC used to make them, but they seem to have disappeared. My advice is to go the custom route. The Pacesetters will hang low, even with modification to them. I already spent the $$$ to buy them and have them installed, so I'm waiting to trash them as I eventually will when I go at least two wheels off a high exit curb. Then I'll have customs made.

Thanks for the heads-up on the headers. I'm not looking to use headers at this time, due to the weight concern. I'd like to know the weight of them, if you have them off the car for any reason. Just for the library (random information).

Thanks,

Bill

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Originally Posted by billf

Ron,

I'd be very interested in the weight numbers you get, since mine was in pieces when we got it. It's repaired now, but it was stripped when it went to the shop. I hope you get the opportunity to get it weighed.

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Alright, car on the scales now.

As it sits, with exactly half a tank of fuel, and everything including the spare tire (this is a non-ABS car, I think), it is 3117 lbs on the Intercomp scales.

Corners are:

879 911

667 662

F/R is 57%/43%

Hope that is useful.

So with a 180 lb driver that's 3300 lbs....2700 might be tough....gonna have to strip that thing down to bare metal.

Crosses are pretty good, and those are easy to correct anyway.

F/R is not so hot.

You might get it down to 55/45 with a fuel cell at stuff, but it won't change much.

Key to this car will be getting 2700 lb. race weight.

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Originally Posted by JeffYoung

So with a 180 lb driver that's 3300 lbs....2700 might be tough....gonna have to strip that thing down to bare metal.

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I think it'll be real tough. That means the car will need to weigh 2525 lbs without driver. No chance of that. But, it'll be fun trying to get it as close as possible.

As far and the F/R balance I wouldn't worry about that too much at this time. The 260Z with AC came in at 56/44 according to R&T tests I have here. Mine sits right at 50/50 now. I imagine we can easily get the F/R balance to a more manageable level.

But to get that weight down, we're going to have to work and work hard. I know where some of it is - that Mach 460 sound system has amplifiers, sub, enclosure, and all packed under the rear deck and it is feeling heavy. Plus, it knocks out some trunk room there is so much crap stuffed under there.

Jeff called it right on my car - smells like strippers, ciggies, stale beer, and teen angst.

Good luck trying to change that F/R balance. After everything I've done with my car, my balance is 58/42. Yeah, it actually skewed more to the front as I built and stripped the car. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by RedMisted

Good luck trying to change that F/R balance. After everything I've done with my car, my balance is 58/42. Yeah, it actually skewed more to the front as I built and stripped the car. :shrug:

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Which makes alot of sense.. same thing happened when I built the MR2.