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Ok, let's get this discussion going again.
What's going to make this a success this year?
With only 22 entries last year and low counts for the regional what will get you and others there to race?
At this point nothing has been decided other than 6 hours is too long.
There are many issues for this weekend. The largest issue is that it is sandwiched in between an LRP event and a Double NHIS event the following weekend. So most don't want to go to NHIS for one a single (if they don't run the enduro), drive home and come back for a double the following weekend.Quote:
Ok, let's get this discussion going again.
What's going to make this a success this year?
With only 22 entries last year and low counts for the regional what will get you and others there to race?
At this point nothing has been decided other than 6 hours is too long. [/b]
If the Enduro format must be kept, I would limit it to 4 hours. I honestly think this event will not make it even at 4 hours. NHIS is not a good enduro track and people would prefer a triple or double weekend instead.
It is also a conflict with the Longest Day at Nelson Ledges this year.
Ditto. Scheduling between two other popular events kills this one...
Good post Jeremy,
Make the NHIS event shorter so a guy can drive it by himself. Less "teamy" may increse the #'s. I would consider it if it were shorter...it kinda makes the weekend "feel" like a double at that point. Otherwise it's a no for me.
OR,....let us keep our rigs at NHIS so the ride home and there for the next weekend is easier. Maybe that would help some.
OR,... put together a killer package deal with the following weekend, giving a price break to the competitor who elects to participate both weekends. It may give incentive to some who are on the fence.
R
5 or 6 years ago, we did exactly that. If you entered the August race, then the entry fee for the September race was just $50 (for the double, too....)Quote:
Good post Jeremy,
Make the NHIS event shorter so a guy can drive it by himself. Less "teamy" may increse the #'s. I would consider it if it were shorter...it kinda makes the weekend "feel" like a double at that point. Otherwise it's a no for me.
OR,....let us keep our rigs at NHIS so the ride home and there for the next weekend is easier. Maybe that would help some.
OR,... put together a killer package deal with the following weekend, giving a price break to the competitor who elects to participate both weekends. It may give incentive to some who are on the fence.
R
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There are a number of huge differences since then, one of them being that with the rent at LRP and other expenses ratcheting up each year, the entire program is running at just about break even. If the region were to make a deal like that, it would be because they were charging more for all the other races. For the year, it ends up costing the drivers the same.
BTW, one of the BIG cost savers is on-line registration. Mailing out entries (Printing, Postage, Labels, Labor) was getting close to $2,000 per event. With postage going up, it is probable more now.
As for the length, it look like 3 hours. Enough so you can look at it as a killer amount of track time in one weekend.
If you miss this enduro, you will never be able to say you ran in the 50th Anniversary of the Little le Mans.
Gee it was a sell out in 2005 at 4 hours.Quote:
If the Enduro format must be kept, I would limit it to 4 hours. I honestly think this event will not make it even at 4 hours. NHIS is not a good enduro track and people would prefer a triple or double weekend instead.
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the weekend being two weeks before Cheap Date has alway made this a hard one. Having LRP move later last year and now adding Nelson does not make it any easier.
3 hours is NOT an enduro. Maybe it would be more enticing if it were longer (more track time for everyone). What good is an enduro if you only have to make one stop, not much strategy needed there. This event is the one event that I wouldn't miss.
The schedule I have, LRP is on August 11 & 12 the enduro weekend on August 25 & 26 and the next event on September 8 & 9.
There are also several drivers who don't run LRP.
I have suggested we run qualifing and a race on Saturday, have slightly shorter races on Sunday AM. Finish up around 1pm, break for lunch and then run a three hour enduro.
Keep entry fees as low as possible and allow enduro entries as late as registration can.
Quote:
The schedule I have, LRP is on August 11 & 12 the enduro weekend on August 25 & 26 and the next event on September 8 & 9.
There are also several drivers who don't run LRP.
I have suggested we run qualifing and a race on Saturday, have slightly shorter races on Sunday AM. Finish up around 1pm, break for lunch and then run a three hour enduro.
Keep entry fees as low as possible and allow enduro entries as late as registration can.
[/b]
I still and have thought this was the best thing to do... I never thought that the extra qualifying session on saturday morning really was worth it to many people (although I liked it). I think that the best thing to get numbers up is the qualifying/sprint race saturday, Sprint race (no qualifying) sunday morning and enduro in the afternoon after lunch. Schedule the enduro to be "X" time once lunch is over till 6:00pm. maybe lunch will be done by 1:00 and the race can be a 5 hr race!!!
Add some more fun by making Sunday AM's race a qualifying race for the Enduro. Starting positions for the Sunday AM (Bonus race) could be based on finishing positions from Saturday afternoons races. The Enduro could be based on the best times from the qualifying race (Sunday AM race). Anyone whom enters the Saturday 1 day regional races gets a free entry to Sunday AM race. Anyone entering Sundays Enduro also gets a free entry (in class same car) to the Sunday AM sprint race. This could also make the Sunday AM races very interesting as it will probably consist of a lot of "hot shoes" in cars they have never driven where teams elect to let thier co-drivers run the race, just for fun.
Raymond
Wasn't the original plan to have an eight-hour event this year, in celebration of the 50th anniversary of LeMans?
I like Bob's 3rd choice - make the enduro part of a package deal/incentive.
I'm very much looking forward to running this event again this year. Had a blast last year. That said, 6-hours is my lower limit. Shorter than that is barely an endurance race, and I probably wouldn't participate.
C'ome on 8 hours, 6 minimum! :D
:eclipsee_steering: :eclipsee_steering: :eclipsee_steering: :eclipsee_steering: :eclipsee_steering: :eclipsee_steering: :eclipsee_steering: :eclipsee_steering:
It sounds like 4 hours is a reasonable compromise amoung the various interested parties that have posted comments.
I wasnt around in 2005, but as stated in an earlier post if it was sold out, it may have been somewhat related to the duration.
I can only imagine the beating the cars take after four hours at NHIS!
I will be there either way, regardless of the final duration :026:
Three hour with one required pit stop. That way one or more drivers can participate.
Four hour would require at least 2 drivers, I think more people would be likely to do it alone.
This is a fun event, lots of track time for everyone. Starting positions by lottery, just like the Glen Fun One.
Can"t use the sprint races as part of the enduro, sprint races are for all classes and Saturday is a NARRC points race.
Remember most of the true enduro teams will be at Nelson Ledges.
Quote:
Three hour with one required pit stop. That way one or more drivers can participate.
Four hour would require at least 2 drivers, I think more people would be likely to do it alone.
This is a fun event, lots of track time for everyone. Starting positions by lottery, just like the Glen Fun One.
Can"t use the sprint races as part of the enduro, sprint races are for all classes and Saturday is a NARRC points race.
Remember most of the true enduro teams will be at Nelson Ledges.
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Why can't you have a "fun" sprint race in the AM on Sunday and use the times from drivers participitating in the Enduro as qualifying times?
I don't think how you grid a 3 hour enduro really matters.
The fastest cars will get to the front eventually.
The Sunday sprints are for fun/track time and to keep Saturday non enduro racers there.
We want to get as many racers to NHIS as possible, it is RAL.
BIG party on Saturday night!
Please please please don't do this.Quote:
Starting positions by lottery, just like the Glen Fun One.
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The Glen Enduro (it's not part of The Fun One) people are seriously considering using the practice as a qualifying for their enduro.
Last year there were at least two serious crashes that were the result of slow teams drawing a position at the front.
Honestly, I won't run The Glen Enduro again unless there is a qualifying for it. I can't afford the cost in quarterpanels. :P
-Kyle
If this event is going to be opposite a real serious enduro, maybe this is an opportunity to try some new, fun and interesting ideas anyone has.
Since the Sunday is a NARRC race, cars will come. Lat year the 6 hours + NERRC only + bad weather kept people away IMHO. While 3-4 hours may not be an enduro to the enduro guys, 4 hours at NHIS HAS to be like 8 hours somewhere else.
How about a 1 hour enduro practice/qualifying then some Sunday race group practice (no qualifying)on Saturday.
Then run a 4 hour enduro after lunch.
Sunday can be a normal race schedule.
Personally, I would rather a 3 hour.
Jerry,
I like your plan.
To address Andy's suggestion, to try some different stuff. We could do one car at a time qualifying where you only get two laps. Just an idea to mix it up some.
-Kyle
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We could do one car at a time qualifying where you only get two laps. Just an idea to mix it up some.
-Kyle
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Kyle- I think this is interesting to watch in NASCAR and certainly keeps the attention of all (crew and drivers) in the pits wondering where you are going to stack up. I also think it adds a "fun" presure to the drivers to perform well as they are being watched much closer. However with those positives I don't think it is a good use of track time.
Raymond
OK, so 3 or 4 hour???
3 hour can be done by one driver and 1 pit stop.
4 hour needs two drivers and 2 stops
Practice 1 hour or two half hour sessions with time in between?
I don't think that ONE race one year with a low car count is an edict that we (enduro drivers) don't want a longer enduro. The factors that could have played into this are too long to list here. I would suggest that the folks at NESCCA who run the series make up a questionaire page on their website to ask the drivers directly what they want in an enduro. Today's technology can help organizers hear directly from us what we like, what we don't like, and most importantly, WHY. Let's let the 1's and 0's of the internet (a shout out to the binary crowd) help the organizers keep their collective fingers on the pulse of why we choose the racing options that we do. Those results can be posted on said site for all to see - no speculating necessary.
I go to NHIS that weekend specifically for the Enduro. As stated in earlier posts, anything under 4hrs is just a longer regional race in my opinion. There SHOULD be driver changes, refueling stops, and even tire changes. This is The Little Lemans. It's the enduro for those who don't want to endure the time and/or expense of trucking 12-18hrs to Ohio for their enduro. I have been asking for a longer enduro at every drivers' meeting. You want to see what your equipment is made of? Pound on it for hrs on end. Here's an idea for those who say they they would run it if they could do it all in one driver stint, buddy up with that guy who always parks next to you at regional races, and you have yourself an enduro team. We should be offering suggestions on how to make this a stronger event, instead of finding ways to cut it back (can you hear the bias in my voice?) Its the 50th Little LeMans !!!!!! :happy204: It's not the Micro LeMans, or the LeMans Sprint.
The only reason my co-driver and I didn't participate in '06 race was that my team was building a new car (the old one gave up the ghost mid season). Planning strategies for enduros have been alot of fun too. I've caught the enduro bug. I feel more satisfaction that my equipment has held up to an enduro than I do after 20-30min sprint race. There were poinits made about costs. A 6hr race gives you the equivalent of 3 regional sprint races (qualifying & race time). That is the best bang for your SCCA buck going !!
Suggestions?
Take finishing times from Sat sprint race and use that to line up and race another sprint race Sun am
Move the enduro to Sun pm.
Work out an agreement to allow teams to leave their trailers in the infield until the 9/8 weekend.
Give price breaks wherever possible to make the weekend more economically possible for those on the fence.
Lets all try to find more options for racing in SCCA, rather than fewer. I think offering more options to race in the SCCA will help lure more people to our sport. Take a look in the Endurance Racing section of the forums. There's a guy who's going to take the Enduro plunge this year for the first time. If he catches the enduro bug as i have, he'll get his buddy to go to school, get his/her license, and become the co-driver of his car. This is another way to build our ranks.
Thanks for letting me rant.
Team Jagermeister's vote is for 6+hrs at NHIS in '07 and beyond.....
Doesn't NASCAR do mandatory pit stops?Quote:
Three hour with one required pit stop.[/b]
Dave - Some good points here...Quote:
I don't think that ONE race one year with a low car count is an edict that we (enduro drivers) don't want a longer enduro. The factors that could have played into this are too long to list here. I would suggest that the folks at NESCCA who run the series make up a questionaire page on their website to ask the drivers directly what they want in an enduro. Today's technology can help organizers hear directly from us what we like, what we don't like, and most importantly, WHY. Let's let the 1's and 0's of the internet (a shout out to the binary crowd) help the organizers keep their collective fingers on the pulse of why we choose the racing options that we do. Those results can be posted on said site for all to see - no speculating necessary.
I go to NHIS that weekend specifically for the Enduro. As stated in earlier posts, anything under 4hrs is just a longer regional race in my opinion. There SHOULD be driver changes, refueling stops, and even tire changes. This is The Little Lemans. It's the enduro for those who don't want to endure the time and/or expense of trucking 12-18hrs to Ohio for their enduro. I have been asking for a longer enduro at every drivers' meeting. You want to see what your equipment is made of? Pound on it for hrs on end. Here's an idea for those who say they they would run it if they could do it all in one driver stint, buddy up with that guy who always parks next to you at regional races, and you have yourself an enduro team. We should be offering suggestions on how to make this a stronger event, instead of finding ways to cut it back (can you hear the bias in my voice?) Its the 50th Little LeMans !!!!!! :happy204: It's not the Micro LeMans, or the LeMans Sprint.
The only reason my co-driver and I didn't participate in '06 race was that my team was building a new car (the old one gave up the ghost mid season). Planning strategies for enduros have been alot of fun too. I've caught the enduro bug. I feel more satisfaction that my equipment has held up to an enduro than I do after 20-30min sprint race. There were poinits made about costs. A 6hr race gives you the equivalent of 3 regional sprint races (qualifying & race time). That is the best bang for your SCCA buck going !!
Suggestions?
Take finishing times from Sat sprint race and use that to line up and race another sprint race Sun am
Move the enduro to Sun pm.
Work out an agreement to allow teams to leave their trailers in the infield until the 9/8 weekend.
Give price breaks wherever possible to make the weekend more economically possible for those on the fence.
Lets all try to find more options for racing in SCCA, rather than fewer. I think offering more options to race in the SCCA will help lure more people to our sport. Take a look in the Endurance Racing section of the forums. There's a guy who's going to take the Enduro plunge this year for the first time. If he catches the enduro bug as i have, he'll get his buddy to go to school, get his/her license, and become the co-driver of his car. This is another way to build our ranks.
Thanks for letting me rant.
Team Jagermeister's vote is for 6+hrs at NHIS in '07 and beyond..... [/b]
I would ask the region what do you want out of this event? Is it to draw "real" enduro drivers? If so, I am not sure this is ever going to happen based on NHIS being too small and tough on equipment.
So then is the enduro meant to be a "change it up and have some fun weekend"? If so, this is fine, but you may not get the car counts as some people will be more interested in the following double which will be more important in the points championship. If you want to just have fun then I also think you need to keep it shorter in length as you will be getting the people who want to try an enduro and see if they like it. BTW - I am in this boat. I would love to try it, but even at 4 hours I don't think I will be able to keep a set of brake pads on my GSR.
Diehard enduro racers will be at Nelson Ledges.
3 hour enduro is our best bet, not a lot of wear and tear = less expensive to do.
Short enough for one driver to do or long enough for two.
When I did they enduro, the only reason I did it was the 3 hour length...I figured I could make it on one stop, one set of tires, and do the whole thing myself.