For you guys in the NEDiv (and other places) planning on heading south to VIR in March, looks like it may be cancelled. No details yet, but we (NC Region) may have lost that weekend and the race may be moved to Rockingham.
Printable View
For you guys in the NEDiv (and other places) planning on heading south to VIR in March, looks like it may be cancelled. No details yet, but we (NC Region) may have lost that weekend and the race may be moved to Rockingham.
Das ist die Poopenstinkers.
K
I don't know what Kirk said... but apparently the track took weekends away from 2 or 3 clubs. I also recomend that you look at there schedule. The Goblins Go date is not listed either.
Any new word on the Rocky Mount track or the one in Spencer?
Scheisse.
Well, that explains it. I called the track before XMas to see if I could book a room at the condos, and the lady told me the weekend that I described was shown to be booked as a Porsche Club event. She said she'd get back to me, but she never did...
Scheisse.
So, when's the first VIR event?
That's a shame...
Guess you guys are gonna have to come down in May, huh? We'll be sure to put out the welcome mat :D
That sucks!
This has been threatened for a while. When VIR originally opened, it was to be vintage and marque club events only. The owners originally did not want the SCCA there is what I have heard, kind of like Barber.
The worry in the NCR (Hoop an weigh in on this too) is that eventually the track management will allow NO SCCA events if they make enough money off of other rentals, etc. and they may be reaching that point with all the press VIR gets now.
I guess the only consolation is that last year, there were five SCCA weekends at the track -- March Memories (regional), May SARRC/MARRS (regional), August Oak Tree (national), October Goblins Go (regional), and the 13 hr. in November. So, looks like we may have got cut back to three, which still isn't too bad I suppose.
Greg, next VIR event is SARRC/MARRS which traditionally is mother's day weekend in May. Huge double SARRC, with the guys from MARRS coming down to run against the guys from the SARRC. Some people like it -- big event, some people don't -- not much track time as a result.
Well I guess that makes our decision a little easier Greg... Bummer!Quote:
Scheisse.
Well, that explains it. I called the track before XMas to see if I could book a room at the condos, and the lady told me the weekend that I described was shown to be booked as a Porsche Club event. She said she'd get back to me, but she never did...
Scheisse.
So, when's the first VIR event?
[/b]
When you see who took the March event you will not be so happy. New track manager see's no loyalty to those who have supported them all along--just dollar signs. Very similar to Road Atlanta for a while when Panoz took over. Look for other groups to get screwed as well.
Who took the event? Is it because of additional track up keep caused by racing that is creating the problem? I wonder if Porsche Club racing, BMW club racing and nasa will get hit too?Quote:
When you see who took the March event you will not be so happy. New track manager see's no loyalty to those who have supported them all along--just dollar signs. Very similar to Road Atlanta for a while when Panoz took over. Look for other groups to get screwed as well. [/b]
So, what is it that makes us so undesireable to these tracks? Is it purely a profit motive, or are there other things about the way we do business they don't like? It sucks to loose any dates at tracks like VIR or RA, much less to face the prospect of loosing all dates.
As I understand the format from other sources, it's not atttractive. I'd need more track time to justify the 12-hour each way, 7mpg, three days off work tow...Quote:
Greg, next VIR event is SARRC/MARRS which traditionally is mother's day weekend in May.[/b]
Sigh.
I have not worked F&C in several years but doesn't NCR provide workers for about 10 weekends at VIR? Not a very good faith move on the part of VIR if they did pull dates from the SCCA after NCR worked to get a worker corp together for the track. If I were a worker there I would have to rethink participating in anything other than SCCA events at VIR.
Bob Lindenmuth
Greg,Quote:
As I understand the format from other sources, it's not atttractive. I'd need more track time to justify the 12-hour each way, 7mpg, three days off work tow...
Sigh.
[/b]
I feel the same way.
Occasionally, track management may have a bad taste for the SCCA due to some history, but in general it's all about the Benjamins. The hosting region can either come up with a creative format that includes more entries or raise the entry fee. That's why you see events that include SARRC and ECR and Pro IT and CCPS and whatever. Either way increases the $/mile for the driver.Quote:
So, what is it that makes us so undesireable to these tracks? Is it purely a profit motive, or are there other things about the way we do business they don't like? It sucks to loose any dates at tracks like VIR or RA, much less to face the prospect of loosing all dates.
[/b]
Whadyagonnado?
Get ready to travel this year Greg. They have listened to the racers and I have been told it will be a 2 day this year with more track time. Hope to see you there.Quote:
As I understand the format from other sources, it's not atttractive. I'd need more track time to justify the 12-hour each way, 7mpg, three days off work tow...
Sigh.
[/b]
Talks are ongoing with the track and It is not my place to say who took the date. You will be surprised.
What I have heard from others in the region is that it is about money (the entity taking the date rented both the full and the Patriot courses at the same time, which can be run together).
I understand there was some shuffling of the schedule at teh request of Porsche Club, not sure if the March cancellation was due ot that.
How are we going to be surprised if no one will tell us? :blink:Quote:
Get ready to travel this year Greg. They have listened to the racers and I have been told it will be a 2 day this year with more track time. Hope to see you there.
Talks are ongoing with the track and It is not my place to say who took the date. You will be surprised. [/b]
Hopefully the weather will be better this year and I'll make it but I'll be in ITR. I think it's a 8 hr tow for me. Glad I don't live near the artic circle like Amy. :D
Quote:
As I understand the format from other sources, it's not atttractive. I'd need more track time to justify the 12-hour each way, 7mpg, three days off work tow...
Sigh.
[/b]
Me three.Quote:
Greg,
I feel the same way.
[/b]
I guess I'll watch what comes for the May MARRS/SARRC weekend and decide if I want to do it, but I'm still really upset that they cancelled the March one. That perfectly into my schedule of sitting on my hands waiting for my Great Lakes season to start.
Yes, this sucks all around. That was my favorite race weekend.
Steve, just curious, what are they considering doing to add track time and yet fit the event into 2 days? I'll be there regardless, but was just wondering.Quote:
Get ready to travel this year Greg. They have listened to the racers and I have been told it will be a 2 day this year with more track time.[/b]
Kevin, Summit Point Apr. 28.Quote:
Me three.
I guess I'll watch what comes for the May MARRS/SARRC weekend and decide if I want to do it, but I'm still really upset that they cancelled the March one. That perfectly into my schedule of sitting on my hands waiting for my Great Lakes season to start. [/b]
Complaint has always been that the MARRS/SARRC was too many days with too few minutes on track. so now they will Qual in the morning, with a shorter race in the afternoon is what I understand which is the normal SARRC format thus cutting down all the time needed to take off for the long tows. Of course if the reg cost is the same this year it just shows they moved to this format to keep the cost down and squeeze in as much time as possible for each run group.
Biggest complaint has always been that they run only 2 qualifiers on Friday (Sat and Sun Races). Then you sit around all day Saturday and Sunday to just race. No practice--period. Discussion is that there will be two sessions each morning and both will be qualifiers and the races after lunch. Either way they are working hard to get us more track time for the drive and save friday for a test day. Much rather pay for a test and get tons of track time on friday and have shorter qualifier. The length of the track makes it hard to get cars out and back in without a lot of wasted time. I suggested they checker us at Black flag out of oak tree to save time in morning sessions. Every little bit helps. Need more time at speed and less on out laps and cooldown. :eclipsee_steering: Too good a weekend to miss because of schedule.
I have always wanted to run VIR but, if that is their feeling towards us, I say pull the whole plug - lock, stock, barrel, workers, everything. Screw 'em! :bash_1_:
I am aware of the format, but I just dont see how we will get any more time then we did last year squeezed into 2 days. Its not possible with the large fields and size of the track. So instead of 2 20 min qualifiers on Friday with 1 ~40 minute race on each day we will get what? 2 10 min morning qualifier and a 20 minute afternoon race? Ok that works unless you break but its still the same amount of time on track just less at one time.
So, is this going to be official in a few days? I still see it up on the SEDIV calendar. To echo everyone else's comments, THIS SUCKS!
Btw, Ruck, I love the avatar!
Mark
Bob, I like the way you think. You notice that any race organization or driving school event want SCCA Flaggers. Why would that be? ;)Quote:
I have not worked F&C in several years but doesn't NCR provide workers for about 10 weekends at VIR? Not a very good faith move on the part of VIR if they did pull dates from the SCCA after NCR worked to get a worker corp together for the track. If I were a worker there I would have to rethink participating in anything other than SCCA events at VIR.
Bob Lindenmuth [/b]
James, our races were only 10 laps or ~ 23 minutes last year. I can see them fitting 7 half-hour races into an afternoon, as long as we put the Miatas in the last group :D - then they'll have all evening to clean up. Hell, even if we get the same amount of track time I would rather pack it into 2 days than spread it over 3. And I'll bet the workers feel the same way.Quote:
So instead of 2 20 min qualifiers on Friday with 1 ~40 minute race on each day we will get what? 2 10 min morning qualifier and a 20 minute afternoon race? Ok that works unless you break but its still the same amount of time on track just less at one time. [/b]
Crap, I was planning to come down there too. :mad1:
This is the wrong attitude if you ever want SCCA to go back there. Low turnouts will just make it worse.Quote:
I have always wanted to run VIR but, if that is their feeling towards us, I say pull the whole plug - lock, stock, barrel, workers, everything. Screw 'em! :bash_1_:
[/b]
Can't NCR "negotiate" workers in exchange for event weekends like other regions do? And by "negotiate" I mean BLACKMAIL ! :cavallo:Quote:
NCR provide workers for about 10 weekends[/b]
I was poking around the NCR site and it looks like they officially worked only 3 extra races last year, nothing out of the ordinary for a "pro" track. I guess VIR must not use SCCA workers anymore (at least not official, probably lot's of crossover) for events like the Gold Cup. Maybe someone with more recent (relevant) experience there can chime in.
Here is the 2006 calendar for NCR. http://www.ncrscca.com/drivers.htm#calendar
I was trying to get to the internet wayback machine to look for older calendars but my work blocks the site.
Bob
Earl, I think they count the pace lap in the "30 minutes or 10 laps" deal, and since it takes about 4-5 minutes to go around at pace speed, that's close to the 30 minutes. Not saying this is right, just saying I think that is what they do.
Yes, NCR provides workers to the track for almost all of their events I think. The track has -- I think, Ben help here if you can -- been working on developing its own worker force though.
I would greatly prefer that the weekend be like all Double SARRCs which is qualify in the morning, race in the afternoon.
sure if I can get the same amount of track time in 2 days that I would get in 3 without paying for 3 days you got it. But if the cost is no different I actually enjoy the relaxed way things are done and the amount of time you have to attempt to put another motor together when you blow up.
The region porvided workers for 3 extra events in 2006... Daytona Protoype's, Grand AM, and I think Stock car Spectaculare' ".
The track has it's own staff of corner workers. I believe they have enough crew to man every station with a worker shift (could be wrong). Most of these guys work every week, and even though they usually staff 1 person per corner, are very effective and experienced. IMHO, I think this probably has something to do with the situation at hand.
So often I see many of my SCCA friends present an arrogent attitude towards the SCCA and a track or another club. The kind of attitude that the "the track needs us", or were better than there workers, or we know best how things should be run. Or yet still... they needed us when they got started... well, they don't now!
In addition, rarely does the SCCA approach the track weekend as the customer. Instead, they want to run the entire show and tell everyone how it should be done. How many of us allow our customer's to handle the manufacturing or processing, or staffing of their order? Much less tell you how it should be done (and yes, I know the customer is always right)? In my business, if I don't like the customer, I don't have to do business with him right away (or ever again). We all can choose who we work with.
As for the dates... I heard that 3 clubs lost weekends. Porsche club included.
I love VIR. I wold race there every day, if I could. However, if they prefer Vintage, or car clubs, or Prestige events, so be it.
Hoop, good points all. Do you know how the NCR - VIR relationship is? It seems like Chuck Stanley is pretty easy to deal with etc. as far as workers, etc. goes. I don't know about the relationship between VIR management and SCCA local management though. Have we done anything to antagonize them?
I know that Rex and Scott did a ton of work putting in the lights at the corner stations for the enduros, etc. and didn't the region pay for the tech shed? Or am I wrong about that?
At the bottom of this though is exactly what you said. This is a business. If VIR can make more money with someone else, well, it is their track and they can do that if they want.
Another reason to advertise SCCA regionals as spectator events so the tracks can make more $. $ usually talks.
Yes, we paid for the Scale room and the Gazebo's. The lights are ours adn come and go with us.
Only if enough people show up to offset the extra cost of ticket takers. And tickets. Sounds silly, but SCCA spectator numbers aren't typically a big revenue stream...even at the ARRC, the counts are pretty dismal.Quote:
Another reason to advertise SCCA regionals as spectator events so the tracks can make more $. $ usually talks.
[/b]
There are spectators other than drivers & crew at the ARRC? :rolleyes:
Yes, Melissa was there, right?Quote:
There are spectators other than drivers & crew at the ARRC? :rolleyes:
[/b]
(I never once saw her touch any car, so....she must not be a crew, right?)
(On the other hand, she didn't pay to get in, and Gregg Baker was a no show this year, sooooo, maybe you are right, no spectators!)