Steering on old vans - 89 E350

So the steering on my E350 is pretty funky. I've told people that it's scary to which they reply oh it's probably just loose like an old truck. Then they take a turn in the seat and after a couple white knuckle miles finally admit that yes, it is scary, it's possessed.

I don't think it's going to fall apart or anything and if you're going under 35mph you don't even notice, but pick up the speed and get ready for some fun. It's much like sawing at the wheel of an old tractor.

What it feels like to me is that one wheel is allowed to rotate a bit as it pleases causing the van to steer side to side as it sees fit. A different tilt to the road, or horizontal breeze or just a change in the alignment of the stars causes the van to change directions. So while you're driving down the highway you're busy correcting the van over and over again. You want to go straight, van wants to take a left, you steer right a bit. Van wants to go right, you steer left a bit, and repeat. Add a trailer to this mix and you have some serious fun. It doesn't pull to the side, it doesn't just wander a bit, it wants to turn. Getting passed by a Semi is also fun.

It has a king pin front end which I'm told might be the problem, but I'm not really sure of how that all works. I know that if it requires work on the king pin it's to the shop it goes. What I'm wondering is if anyone else any experience with this and if it's something other than the king pin and it's something I can fix. If it is the king pin, what do I tell the shop to look for? I don't want to take it to the shop, have them just tighten up the steering and say there you go because I'm almost certain that's not it.

Any experience with wacky wandering fords out there? Please don't make me the only person on my crew who can drive the 7 hours back home after 2 races earlier that day.

The first thing to look at on a Ford van is the bushing where the trailing link meets the frame. There's one on each side, right about under the front seats. They are a very common wear item.

Other than that I have found Ford E-250 / 350 vans to be pretty dependable. If that isn't it, you may want to take it to a good alignment shop anyway. The suspension and steering members are under enough load, even with the wheels off the ground, that it's tough to find loose things by hand.

-Art

If you have never done it, it would probably be a good time to just reuild the front end. All new ball joints, tie rods, etc. Just beware. There is one tie rod that is rather expensive, I want to say $150+. Once you replace it all, align it and enjoy.

I still ahve some of the parts for my E350 box truck that I need to install (have them already just not installed), and yes, mine is scary, but not until you hit 60pmh down the hill on the way to summit. Towing a trailer on that hill in the rain makes it even more fun http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Spanky
#03 ITC 1990 Honda Civic WDCR

So do you think there's a chance that the fixes I need are not really king pin related? It would be awesome if I could do this myself. I think I'm crazy though. With a race less than a month away I've spent the last 8 nights on the van and nothing on my car for over a year. Ouch!

You just need to look at ball joints, etc and see what kind of play and wear you have. More than likely a nice front end rebuild should make all the difference in the world.

Lots of weight + lots of age = lots of slop

http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

Spanky
#03 ITC 1990 Honda Civic WDCR

There is no other popular vehicle that has, IMHO, worse steering brand new....I hate to imagine how it is old and worn!

My Dodge van was a classic "loose" recirculating ball deal, b ut the Fords...sheeesh!

Ben get out there and grab the top of the wheel and shake for all yur life. If it moves in and out, check the ball joints and bearings. next, grab the wheel at 9 and 3 and shake, and if you feel slop, start looking for tie rods, pitman arms, drag link and idler arm wear. Not that all those parts are actually on your truck, LOL, but just get under there and start poking around. Often the gulity party is obvious.

I know the budget is a concern, so if you can find one bad peice, great. If not, it is never a bad idea to do some general maintenance!

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Ben:

My 92 has the same crappy steering. Fun in the wind, ain't it?

I've been told that the steering boxes on these are to blame. I don't know if it is true or not, so take it for what it is worth. I didn't want to tackle the whole problem so, after replacing a few of the parts (tie-rod ends) and making sure nothing was loose and going to fall apart, I just dealt with it. That made the trip to Atlanta just that much more fun!

Good luck! I know I didn't help any!

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

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<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...it would probably be a good time to just reuild the front end.</font>

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Ditto. I had to do that on my '93 E-350 with 254K miles. Needed ball joints, tie rod ends, and the two-ball-joint arm that goes to the other steering arm (can't ever remember its name; the "Pitman Arm"?)

Plus, you might need a steering box, but you could get away with it for now by tightening the worm gear lash. - GA

The Haynes for my 2002 F150 says to check for worn Pitman and idler arms, jack up one wheel and try to move it side to side. You should be able to see if there is play in either one.

I'm sure if you bring it to an alignment shop, they'll be more than happy to tell you what parts are bad.

Also, how worn are your tires? They can make a huge difference.

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

Awesome advice guys. She has brand new tires which look really mean on it. I should show a picture of this van since it's one mean machine that used to haul a mamography machine around town before I got it. Good thing they took off the giant pink bow.

I did notice that some of the rubber parts under there have some cracks in them. Guess it's time to spend more non-racecar money. Need any wacky tools to work on these parts?

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<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">it's one mean machine...</font>

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Can it beat this?

http://www.kakashiracing.com/images/e350/DCP_5262.JPG

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<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Need any wacky tools...</font>

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Yeah, a big effin floorjack, big effin jackstands, and a big effin set of hammers. After all, this is a true one-ton TRUCK. Not your average little wussy "Edy-Lariat-Bauer version" pickup.

Prepare yourself for the awesome power that is "the mamovan"

http://www.hardingracing.com/Mamovan/mamovan.JPG

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Originally posted by GregAmy:
Yeah, a big effin floorjack, big effin jackstands, and a big effin set of hammers. After all, this is a true one-ton TRUCK. Not your average little wussy "Edy-Lariat-Bauer version" pickup.

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Yeah, baby! http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/wink.gif

G

Nice woodgrain there, Greg!

And Ben, what'sthe truck BEHIND the van?? That thing looks cool...whgat say we pull the body /cab and drop it over a Sierra P/U chassis or something similar?

Jeezz I wish I had a website to host pics of MY old Dodge...they didn't call it the "crack house van" for nothing!

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

"You know you're a racer if" comes to mind...

If you'll buy a used van from ANYONE.

We used to call a buddy's van the raper van, you know the type of van often seen on the local news as being driven near local schools.

That picture is from the guy I bought it from. Lived out on a farm. That is my favorite joke with my van though. It's got a wheel chair lift and everything so hanging out by schools is even more scary. Just need some big glasses and a stache. I'm really tempted to paint it like the A-Team. The best part about it is that the extended roof helps it slice through the wind. Actually improves down force as well as gas mileage and top speed. The inside is even wood paneled!

Having one of these mosters is pretty cool though. The inside is a blank canvas. I'm not sure what I'm going to do but I'm sure it will need a disco ball and some subs.

Every time I have to climb into the back of the dually, I swear loudly (and with malice aforethought) and chant "I miss my van, I miss my van, I miss my van...".

Gawd...I MISS MY VAN !!!!!

Yes...if you have an accident in a van, you arrive a little early, compared to the 'truck guys'...and the dually is more stable and has a better rubber/brake/weight ratio...and it's nice having that noisy big diesel thing 3 feet in front of me, rather than right under my right knee (advice - if you have a diesel van, get a GOOD stereo, as it helps to drown out the clatter)...

BUT I MISS MY VAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I wasn't towing that big fat-assed enclosed trailer-pig, I'd still be running a van.

I have seen some really cool ambulance conversions....and they are pretty cheap

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Evan Darling
ITA Integra

Ex-ambulance = electrical wiring nightmare.

Don't know what the ambulance builders do (Horton, etc.) to take a relatively reliable platform and turn them into incredibly complicated and failure-prone vehicles.

I've been attracted to ex-ambulances for years, but then I talk to people who have ex-ambulances, and I drop the idea.

Well it will be a wheel wiggling night at my house. Over lunch I had a friend move the steering wheel back and forth a bit but I honesly couldn't see anything misbehaving. I know the steering has slack in it but I'm pretty sure it had slack in it when it was new as well. Plus the gear box is a few more dollars then I want to spend. I guess we'll just have to see how well my 115lb girlfriend, I mean wife does moving that huge wheel around. She's my wife now, I should be able to put her to work right?

Although the new headers for the car just showed up.. hmmm... what to do...

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Originally posted by benracin:
She has brand new tires

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Did the new tires make the problem worse/better/no change?

I have a '92 E350, it only has 56K on it (Motorhome used 15x per year) so I haven't got to the point where wear is an issue.

I did have some funky tracking when I used different brand steering and drive tires. Heavy trucks do it, but my little RV didn't like it. Went back to the same tread pattern front and rear and no more goofyness.

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Originally posted by benracin:
[B]She's my wife now, I should be able to put her to work right?
/B]

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My wife loves to tell the story of when she was 6 months pregnant I made her lift the nose of my 944 so I could get the floor jack under it!!

Hey, she only needed to lift it a couple of inches..........

Side note: From the looks of things, I think we need to start a "ugliest tow vehicle" contest........ http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/biggrin.gif

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

best part about it is that the extended roof helps it slice through the wind. Actually improves down force as well as gas mileage and top speed. ][/QUOTE]

A little off subject, but. In the 70's,(anyone remember the 70's?) Car and Driver did some testing on improving gas miliage on a Dodge van. Spoilers, covering the grill area, etc. They found the absolute best results were when they removed the "West Coast Mirrors". Simple but very effective. Come to think of it, I've raced against alot of guys who seem to never have used their mirrors anyway, actually, every day on my way to work, I think alot of folks do not use their mirrors! Good luck.

Ben:

She should have no problems moving it. Afterall, if it is like mine, it's got that giant dead spot in the middle where you can just go back and forth and the van keeps going straight!

I was driving mine around last night (just checking to make sure it all works before I sell it) and checked what was going on. Mine felt like it was all in the steering box. It's not too bad if I'm not towing, but...

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

All the tires are new and the same tread. I can't remember if it got worse or better with the new tires. I'm going to guess it got just a little bit worse. I've been asking this question on a ford-trucks forum and one recommendation there was to pump everything up with grease (they just might be dry) and see if that cures anything. I'm actually starting to lean towards the steering box sadly enough. I wasn't able to get it jacked up last night and give it a shake down so I'll do that before I run out buying steering boxes.

As for the ugliest van contest? I'm all in baby. What I really need is a pair of ox horns to put on the hood, a semi horn, and of course, "back off" mud flaps. Looks like it's JC whitney time.

Best two bumper stickers I saw/heard about on vans:

1. Don't laugh, your daughter may be inside

2. Free Candy

Back in the 90's I used a '79 G20 Hippie Van complete with Day-Glo shag on the walls, 10 inch wide mags, and fender flares. I had it parked at the dealership that I was working at the time, the service manager walked past it and stopped. He had this glazed look in his eyes and said "Dude I know I smoked pot in that thing during high school."

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<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...I think we need to start a \"ugliest tow vehicle\" contest...</font>

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You're not calling the Yellow Terror ugly, now are you? That truck has CHARACTER. Whenever I told someone to "meet me at the yellow van" there was rarely any problems finding me in the paddock.

I've since replaced it with a staid, boring, sterile white van. Wife likes the looks better, I don't (YAAWWWNNN!!!) "Meet me at the white van" just doesn't have the same panache... - GA

ball joints ball joints ball joints ball joints ball joints ball joints ball joints ball joints ball joints ball joints

Ask me how my carerra drove with worn out ones... just like an E350!!! HAHAHAHAH

All this talk about ball joints. E350's ain't got'em!

Back to the ugly van talk.

We started towing witha van called the RATTLESTAR it was 1982 e150 w/ 2.73 gears and 15k plus when we got it!! What a pig It was a big ugly blue tin can!!! Then Chris got a 1992 E350 w a 460 in it agggh! That bugger would pas anything but the gas stations!!! Glenn

I love how I'm able to walk into mine and stand straight up. Makes driver suit changes a piece of cake. Now if only I could walk out on the wheel chair lift and have fireworks go off to some loud ACDC. What a driver intro that would be. To bad only the 4 people camping with me could take part in it. What would be really awesome is if I could line up the wheel chair lift with the door to the race car. I could just walk out and slide in. I think I'm onto something.

WARNING: Short Joke Coming!

Ben:

You could stand in a regualar van! You don't need anything that tall!

http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

I don't know if you're allowed to make van jokes, since you're selling yours! Traitor!

Gentlemen, I give you GIGANTOR....

http://www.nogumracing.com/karl/images/van.jpg

1988 E350 7.3L IDI diesel. There is no "Where did I park?" question when this thing sticks up almost 7-1/2 feet in the air. Notice the hood of the van relative to the roof of the SE-R.

It also steers like a drunken cow. It&#39;s also FOR SALE (contact me if interested). I probably should do ball joints and bushings on it.

Matt - if you can find ball joints on that thing, have at it ro replace them. You&#39;ll probably need a left handed monkey wrench to get them out with, and special striped grease to replace them.

Hey - I know that Sentra!

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Hey - I know that Sentra!

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If one is good, two must be better.....

as a retired ITC guy I read a lot of posts but yours prompted me to register. I don&#39;t know what kind of suspension you have under your E-350 but I have the twin I beam front end with king pins. All your caster is in the king pins - caster gives you the on center feel you are looking for. if the king pins drag you lose the benefit of the king pins caster. When you hit a bump with one wheel the truck wioll feel like it is stering out from under you. The first step to take is grease the king pins - From the sound of it you probably have never done this so it may be hard to get them to take grease. I f you prevail it will solve your problem - guaranteed.
You may need the other components everyone is talking about ( except for the ball joints) but grease alone will be a magic cure. Sometimes there is too much advice.