Anyone know the status of the 2 drivers at Road Atlanta in that bad wreck in the last race?
I was standing at the fence and saw the entire event unfold, very scary. Has anyone heard how the driver is that was life flighted out?
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Anyone know the status of the 2 drivers at Road Atlanta in that bad wreck in the last race?
I was standing at the fence and saw the entire event unfold, very scary. Has anyone heard how the driver is that was life flighted out?
I had a friend down there -- Robert Mitchell -- #28, IT7. Was he involved? Anyone know? Have not been able to get a hold of him.
The rumor is that the driver of the RX-7 recently had heart surgery and they took him in because of that and that he is stable, like I said, just a rumor as of right now.
Driver of RX-7 was Henderson
Driver of BMW was Burdett
I talked to a friend who was at the hospital last night to see Sam(IT7 Driver who was life flighted).
Sam had a few broken ribs and was supposed to be released sometime late Sunday evening.
I'm sure a few more bruises will show in the next couple of days.
Glad he will be OK, Nice guy.
#28 EP
Some updates at:
http://www.roadrace-autox.com/bbs/forums/t...ew.asp?tid=1144
Seems everyone is reasonably OK.
I met and talked to Robert Saturday night and he said he was only running the SARRC that day so I don't think he was involved in the ProIT wreck. He was not registered for it either.Quote:
I had a friend down there -- Robert Mitchell -- #28, IT7. Was he involved? Anyone know? Have not been able to get a hold of him.
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He seems like a good guy and once I get my IT7 back together will enjoy racing with him. Sounds like VIR is home to him so either there or here.
Glad to hear Sam in the IT 7 is beeter than the helicopter would indicate.
Here are a few pictures, more at the link Greg posted.[attachmentid=528]
Thanks Tom. I spoke with Robert a few hours ago and he is fine. His car got Miataed near the end of the Enduro, but is generally ok and he is personally fine.
I know Sam Henderson only from waving at him on the grid and racing with him. A good racer, have had some nice battles with him at Roebling and CMP. I hate that happened and am glad he is ok. I'm surprised by the description of what happened since I've seen Sam on track many times and have always thought he was a safe and fast racer. In any event, I'm glad everyone is ok (or getting there).
Tom, see link above for link to a description of the accident.
Sam Henderson is in Gwinnett Medical Center until at least Tuesday. He's doing as well as can be expected for such a hard hit. Steve Hamption is with him.
The remains of the car were taken back to Greenville last night. The bars and belts did what bars and belts are to do.
Toni Creighton
Anyone know if has he wearing an Isaac or Hans?Quote:
The bars and belts did what bars and belts are to do.
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Christian, who drive past the wreck for a couple of laps behind the pace car and couldn't tell...
No one named Sam Henderson on our user list.
I spoke with Tony's wife Janna this morning and he went home from the hospital Sunday evening after being checked out. He is sore everywhere, but not in great pain in any one area.
Ron Sattele
Don't know if it's the same guy, but when I was in SE Division 20 yrs ago, there was an ITB Volvo racer named John Henderson. But nobody called him John, everyone called him Sam.Quote:
No one named Sam Henderson on our user list[/b]
I don't know of anyone here in the SE that ever drove a ITB Volvo by the name of Henderson. I think that you are probably thinking of Sam Moore. I like all wish Sam Henderson a speedy recovery.
Sam Henderson and John Henderson are the same guy. Most everyone knows him as Sam. He told me he always went by Sam in his short track days and when he used to run this great, honkin' GT1 Camaro. When he started running the Mazda, he decided he would go by John on the entry list. Don't ask me why.
An odd thing that no one has mentioned yet is that Sam's teammate, Brian Dobson, has a very similar accident two or three years ago in almost exactly the same place. Brian was on the second row (an IT7 car in the ITS, ITA, IT7 group, which tells you how fast he is) at the start. He got turned sideways just before Turn 1 and was drilled right in the passenger door by an onrushing ITS RX7. It wasn't quite as bad as this weekend's accident, but it was close. I think the ITS driver had to go to the hospital, but no lasting injuries to my knowledge. The damage to Brian's car was nearly identical to what Sam's received, and it ended up about 100 feet from where Sam's did.
One point I'd like everyone's opinion on. I had a discussion with Sam's crew after the Dobson accident and was told that they built their cages inset by about 3 inches on the passenger side. The logic was that the factory door bars, rocker panel, etc., would be an effective impact absorber/crush space before the impact reached the cage proper. I thought this was somewhat dubious, but after seeing two guys get out of major side impacts with relatively minor injuries, I'm reconsidering. Any thoughts?
In a crash, the more you attenuate the actual loads, the better off you are. Without actual testing it's impossible to say what the results would be, and i would think they would be highly dependent on angle, velocity, and the shape of the ntruding object, but the seat of th pants engineer in me thinks that the basic reasoning is sound. My new cars passenger side door bars will intrude into the cavity, but not entirely.
I'd love to read actual test reprts on the subject.
Glad to hear Sams OK. I've followed that car..he's pretty quick.
As an update for those wondering Sam is still in the hospital tonight ,but expects to be able to go home tomorrow. wednesday .He seems to be in good spirts.
Kurt IT7 #00 & #59
I was racing with Tony at the time (yellow Bimmerworld #51). Can someone please tell me why Sam decided to dart across the track and into our path while I was chasing Tony into turn 1 at 90+ mph. What was he thinking...? When I saw the car enter the track I started to swing wide...had he delayed a fraction I would have t-bone him instead of Tony. I fully expected to be collected and barely escaped. This was senseless...Where's the logic here...?
I glad both are recovering. Tony is good friend and competitor and was was my first race instructor five years ago.
Gerald E. Potts
www.myriadracing.com
Atlanta, GA.
Sam is still in the hospital at Gwinnett Medical Center with broken ribs and a bruised kidney. He's not sure why they're continuing to keep him other than watching the kidney. Does anyone know how long he was unconscious after the wreck?? There appear to be a couple of corner workers at the scene (from the pics posted) who might be able to answer this question. Thanks for everyone's concern.
Brian Dobson
IT-7 #6
Tom
i also had talked with steve hampton who designed and installed the cages in both cars and got the same reply.
while i did not get to inspect the car as they impounded it in the road atlanta garages under lock and key, from what i could see from a distance and the pic's, it looked pretty much a replay of bryans crash.
even though sam at the time was unable to walk away,it looks as if he going to be OK ! and being in his mid. 60's thats saying something, as bryan is much younger.
on the bmw, i don't know what the bumper set up is, but it looked like it did it's job, i'm sure tony was going a million miles an hour or so it seemed at that moment.
i don't know if you know jim burke, he runs a gt-lite nissian here in the southeast and he has done something close on the drivers side of his car also.
instead of taking the nascar style door bars all the way to the outer door skin on the drivers side, he stopped about 3 inches short of the skin and installed a highdensity foam barrier the entire width of the door area, it looks to be contained in a fuel cell type bladder material.
tom, thanks for bringing this up,looking forward to the replys as its giving me food for thought on the new it/7/a i'm building.
bring on your thoughts guys
joe
People make mistakes. Even smart, experienced people.Quote:
Can someone please tell me why Sam decided to dart across the track and into our path while I was chasing Tony into turn 1 at 90+ mph. What was he thinking...? [/b]
This just happened to be a really really big mistake.
Its very fortunate that nobody was more seriously injured.
You stated you were "chasing Tony into Turn 1 at 90+ mph", aren't you supposed to hold position, not try to pass anyone during a yellow flag???? Aren't you supposed to "be aware that something is wrong in the upcoming turn"and maybe slow down??? Sure Sam was wrong for returning to the track but we don't know the reason why Sam decided to return when he did and neither does Sam at this point in time. Maybe the car cut off when trying to re-enter?? Whatever the reason, it ended in a devastating wreck and luckily no one was fatally injured.Quote:
I was racing with Tony at the time (yellow Bimmerworld #51). Can someone please tell me why Sam decided to dart across the track and into our path while I was chasing Tony into turn 1 at 90+ mph. What was he thinking...? When I saw the car enter the track I started to swing wide...had he delayed a fraction I would have t-bone him instead of Tony. I fully expected to be collected and barely escaped. This was senseless...Where's the logic here...?
I glad both are recovering. Tony is good friend and competitor and was was my first race instructor five years ago.
Gerald E. Potts
www.myriadracing.com
Atlanta, GA.
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Brian Dobson
I read the same statement but nowhere I get the impression he was passing in the quote.
Yellow flags are a very tricky deal. You have to be ready to slow, but if you actually slow, the world blows by. When I've spun, my number 1 thought is oncoming traffic. (And to not ruin someone elses day by getting in the way)
I understand there has been a change in flagging protocol in that turn, which could also play into it.
Also, there have been no reports of flaggers either waving Sam back on or signalling him in anyway.
Isn't the driver to not go back on track without the direction of a flagger? Did he get a signal?
Quote:
I was racing with Tony at the time (yellow Bimmerworld #51). Can someone please tell me why Sam decided to dart across the track and into our path while I was chasing Tony into turn 1 at 90+ mph. What was he thinking...? When I saw the car enter the track I started to swing wide...had he delayed a fraction I would have t-bone him instead of Tony. I fully expected to be collected and barely escaped. This was senseless...Where's the logic here...?
I glad both are recovering. Tony is good friend and competitor and was was my first race instructor five years ago.
Gerald E. Potts
www.myriadracing.com
Atlanta, GA.
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sorry screwed up on that last post.
What i was about to say was:
WAVING YELLOW FLAG : ( incase you did not catch this part in drivers school)
Great Danger,Slow Down, Be Prepared to Stop !!!!!!!!!!!
No Passing from the Flag untill past emergency area
GCR 9.4.2.B
Quote:
sorry screwed up on that last post.
What i was about to say was:
WAVING YELLOW FLAG : ( incase you did not catch this part in drivers school)
Great Danger,Slow Down, Be Prepared to Stop !!!!!!!!!!!
No Passing from the Flag untill past emergency area
GCR 9.4.2.B
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Let me make this perfecly clear. I was slightly behind and to the left of Tony when he hit the RX7. My understnding from speaking with a corner worker was that the RX7 was being waved off as approaching traffic was coming. My understanding is that the RX7 driver disregarded the corner worker and drove across the track in front of me and into Tony. I was not passing. I'll gladly debate you offline on this issue since I was next to Tony when he impacted the RX7 and you were not. Please save your bench racing for the socials on Saturdays. I'm certain it will serve you well.
I'm happy to hear the RX7 driver is going to fully recover. I'm pissed as hell that it happened at all and someone trashed a 35k racecar apparently by disreagarding the direction of a corner worker. For what...?
I'll have no further public comment until the investigation concludes. If you want to discuss this privately I can be reached at 404-791-6444...
Gerald Potts
I wasn't there and don't know what went down but if the corner workers were waving in any manner, it may be that Sam misunderstood their signals. If I go off I'm going to get back into a position to re-enter the track as soon as I can; if I see what I perceive to be a signal from the corner workers to re-enter, I'm not even going to stop but proceed. Now, I have to say I would try to get in the flow as opposed to perpendicular ASAP. Sounds like Sam may have been on the gas in the grass and suddenly gained traction on the pavement and shot across. But I digress. Corner workers seem to have their own language when it comes to signalling each other and perhaps even drivers. I watch them sometimes and they look like a 3rd base coach; and I have no idea what they mean. After an "off" the driver is in an excited state and not fully able to ponder what a particular wave may mean. Maybe we need some universal gestures for stop and go. For stop I suggest 2 arms raised and still like a touchdown. Go: 2 words - Pete Townshend. :-)
Bill, I would respectfully disagree. The driver should also take full responsibility for a safe entry. Just a wave in by a corner work is not enough. I TRY to look at the corner station, then down the track, before I reenter.
Again, I've raced with Sam, he has years of experience more than me, and he always seems safe and considerate. But, with what little I know of RA, I can't believe anyone would purposefully enter turn 1 perpendicular to race traffic. That corner is WAY fast and any reentry there is looking for big trouble.
My name is Scott Franklin and John "Sam" Henderson is a fellow competitor, mentor, and friend. Sam did stay in the hospital until Wednesday after the wreck. I've talked to him a number of times since the accident and he is improving daily. He did sustain at least one broken rib and a bruised kidney. They have been keeping a close eye on his kidney. I won't go into details in this forum. Those of you close enough to Sam have ways of finding out what you need to know. Out of respect for him and his privacy, I won't air any "dirty laundry" here. Sam was wearing a HANS device. He'd had it for less than a month. As far as questions about the door bar being placed inboard of the door to allow for a "crush zone", Steve Hampton's logic worked perfectly. The bar was never touched. I've seen the car in the shop in Mauldin and it is as straight as the day that it was installed. It was removed to provide better access to Sam in the accident, but still straight as an arrow. Kudos to Sam, Brian, and Steve for having the cajones to buck the accepted system and find what could be the new standard. The door was understandably mangled, but it looks as though the latch actually held through the impact. By not hitting the bar and allowing the door to absorb the impact, I have to wonder how many "Gs" this saved Sam's body from taking.
For those of you who have been around, this is the same "John" Henderson who has been racing GT-1. IT7, etc. for more than 30 years. He is an accomplished racer and a winner of the multiple championships and awards over the years.
I've asked Sam about the accident and he doesn't remember it. I work corners more often than I race and I know the corner workers involved in the response. If I could fill out a list of folks that I would want responding to me if I were in a similar wreck, the list would remain the same. Thanks to "the folks in white", EV, race control, and everyone else involved. Without all of you, this could be a eulogy instead of an update on a fellow competitor.
Scott "Righty" Franklin
IT7, SPU
www.NutDriver.org
That's good to hear. I've used the same plan on my car, figuring that the crushable structure of door and stock door panel (including the foam armrest) is a good thing to have between me and the outside world.Quote:
As far as questions about the door bar being placed inboard of the door to allow for a "crush zone", Steve Hampton's logic worked perfectly. The bar was never touched.[/b]
I'm glad to hear that Sam was wearing an H&N system, as well.
K
"By not hitting the bar and allowing the door to absorb the impact, I have to wonder how many "Gs" this saved Sam's body from taking."
This raises very intriguing and very technical issues that are way beyond me. However, always the devil's advocate, let me make some observations. I race a 2nd gen. RX-7 w/ gutted passenger door and NASCAR bars that just touch the aluminum skin. I don't think that door or even the stock ungutted one would absorb much energy from a high-speed side impact. [But, yea, the more the better.] No way in this case that that door stopped the BMW from hitting the cage bar. What stopped it was the much more solid structure in front and behind the door opening and the rocker below it. If that is the case then the BMW's energy did indeed transfer to the RX-7 - not through the cage but through the chassis/body. Now, that may have absorbed energy and was better than the cage taking it, so the inboard bar may have helped. However, if the impact had been more oblique - corner of BMW direct into door of RX-7 - I suspect that the bar would have taken at least 90% of the energy. I wish SCCA was in position to be able to study all serious crashes like the NTSB and thereby develop safer cars.
I apologize for this comment if it seems rude. It is not intended as such or as a "flame". After spending time inspecting the car in question again last night, my "devil's advocate" response is, have you seen the car in question? I have and the door is the thing that took the lion's share of the impact. If you'd like to have a look at the car, swing by Mauldin and I expect that Sam or Brian or whoever is there at the time will let you look at it for yourself.
I do have to agree that something does have to eventually tranfer the force. In that regard, every single nut, bolt, rivet, and piece on the car plays its role. This is especially true of the tires and their coefficient of friction in regard to Newtonian physics (objects at rest tend to stay at rest, objects in motion tend to stay in motion) and their tendency to keep the car from moving perpendicular to the intended course. While I agree with the meat of your statement, let's don't over-analyze this. :-) :dead_horse:
Scott "Righty" Franklin
BTW, I spent an hour or more with Sam last night and he seems to be feeling and getting better every day.
"let's don't over-analyze this"
Sorry I rained on your parade, Scott, but when driver safety is implicated in a technical issue, I think it needs to be completely analyzed before conclusions are published and "new standard[s]" declared. You may well be right; I just think you overstated it a bit - that's all. :-)
If you know the corner workers at that station, were they giving any signals to Sam to either re-enter or not? There has to be a reason why he thought he was free to re-enter as he did.
I do consider one of the guys at the station at T1 a good friend. The other is more of a trusted acquaintance. I have not had the chance to talk to either of them and, to be totally honest, I'm beginning to question the value. From what I understand (having NOT talked to the folks at T1), Sam re-entered the surface in a bad way, for whatever reason you want to ascribe. Sam has no recollection, so we'll never know from the best source. I have been told that the yellow was waving at Pit Out (the "new" flagging position for T1) and that there were two cars that entered the yellow zone at what some have described as a higher rate of speed than they should. The bottom line, in my mind, is that there were a confluence of factors that led to a bad outcome, both for Sam and for the gentleman in the BMW (I apologize for not remembering your name). The thing that it brings home to me (take this with as many grains of salt as you like) is that we are all taking a calculated risk every time we get behind the wheel. We choose to accept it or to ignore it. Either way, we've made a choice. What the folks around us do is beyond our control and we have to accept this as a part of our calculated risk. I just bought a HANS. I have added bars to my cage that are not mandated by the SCCA. I want to exceed the standards for safety in every way that I can afford. I apologize if I came across as not believing that we need to investigate every possible way to increase the safety of the competitors, race officials, and spectators. I do, especially since I'm the one with the fire bottle in my hand or responding to a stopped car in a "hot zone" more often than I'm the guy behind the wheel.
Scott Franklin