http://www.cwnicholls.net/limerock/2006LimeRock01/
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It looks like they're reworking the uphill turn where Adam Zimmerman ws killed last season.
R
wow, just what we need a street course with trees on the other side of the guardrails and fences rather than buildings...
Also did you notice the turns with exception to the uphill have Less run off room... for example the downhill???
Not sure why they needed to ruin the "prestigeouse" look of the track by making it into a NHIS circle track or better yet a copy of the Watkins Glenn Nascar short track...
Soon we will have full course yellows for a local spin...
Disapointing... but we will wait to see the end results before we get really disapointed...
Raymond
0100-
I just wanted to post again and thank you for the updated pictures...
Raymond
PS: Are you eric? If so awsome webpage... :023: even though it isn't an IT car ;)
:( damn, just about all the sitelines I use for shooting images are now fenced over.
I agree. I don't know why they are adding armco around the entire track. The only spot I felt was unsafe was the uphill with no runoff & tire wall.Quote:
Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Jan 23 2006, 03:04 AM
wow, just what we need a street course with trees on the other side of the guardrails and fences rather than buildings...
Also did you notice the turns with exception to the uphill have Less run off room... for example the downhill???
Not sure why they needed to ruin the "prestigeouse" look of the track by making it into a NHIS circle track or better yet a copy of the Watkins Glenn Nascar short track...
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Dennis McCarthy posted these pictures on the formula board so he is really the one to thank. I just figured people on IT.com would like to see them.
Thanks Raymond! My site is getting old and I never update it. :( I just started to build an entire new site(v2) that I will actually try to keep updated. :rolleyes: I hope to be done by March.Quote:
Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Jan 23 2006, 03:21 AM
Are you eric? If so awsome webpage... :023: even though it isn't an IT car ;)
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You guys have an awesome site too!! Tons of stuff to check out. :023:
yea, odd "improvements"
some are obviously good ideas for the workers.
but removing runoff room is never good!
and the fences? They don't look like they can stop much. which makes their installation on no name curious.
i like the uphill work.
I just hope we don't see gravel traps infront of all that new guardrail.
I was wondering if all that *lovely* chain link fence on No-name was to limit wheels and such from flying into the swamp. Could that be something they are doing to try to appease the town or state on environmental issues???
You never really get many cars (or workers! :D ) flying into the swamp on driver's left from Non-name, so perhaps there is more pressure on the track to have more environmental regulations.
Unfortunately, LRP has always been a square peg in a round hole there. The neighbors in the area aren't happy at having some noisy, messy 'neighbor' foul the air that they have to breathe, and they really get cranky if they are traveling from the train station to their 38 room cottage, and there are (GASP :blink: )RACER'S in the way with their tacky trailers with all that, ICKY lettering and such! I mean, they bought this cottage so they wouldn't have to have traffic! That's why they only have a Hummer with a brush guard for the commute.
My personal favorite over the years has been the NYC second home people who buy a home near the track for less than it would sell in a 'nicer' (read further away from the track) and THEN they lobby to close the racetrack and complain endlessly that the track is ruining their home's value, and their piece of mind. That's the same mentality of people who buy them in the flight path of an airport, and try to have the airport moved. :018:
Most (although not all) of the remaining folks who have been there since the track opened have been fine with it. It's another business operation, like an airfield, or a local Rod & Gun club that holds shooting competitions.
Anyway, I'd better stop. This has long been a thorn in my side....and it's not likely to change. I just hope that they don't one day succeed and close LRP for good. :(
The 3-high guardrail along the straight is badly needed. And re-configuring the uphill's runoff is probably necessay (there have been at least 2 deaths there that I'm aware of in the past decade)
But the rest of it is butt-ugly. :angry:
Yes, it looks like they are re-working the up-hill, but not at the spot that is the issue......
ALso not sure I like the area before the bridge on the right. Need tires, not armco........
I'm guessing that part of the rationale for some of the extra fencing is to prevent deer from entering the track. I've seen many get very close to the track.
I like the improvements at the uphill. The track must have dropped many tons of fill there. I doubted they would ever be able to improve the runoffs there - that is a big safety improvement.
But all the fencing - safer, but sure is uglier.
If the runoff at the downhill has been reduced as much as it appears I worry about a car bouncing back into traffic....
Yeah, I can agree with that. First thing I thought of was no more blueflags from ANY corner station! Look at the sightline down the front straight from the entrance of bigbend (or really, try looking through a fence all day long). The safety improvements aren't very good (from a workers point of view...).Quote:
Originally posted by 16v@Jan 23 2006, 03:58 AM
:( damn, just about all the sitelines I use for shooting images are now fenced over.
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How many of us have seen an incident along No-Name straight where corner workers are helping use from driver's left? Where is there a hole in the fence for anyone to get out of the way or run to the car safely? (not that running on that berm was safe to begin with).
Where is there a hole in the fence from westbend to the front straight on drivers left? Again, where are the corner workers going to come from when someone needs assistant from crashing in the "improved" downhill?
Oh, and where did Grid go? looks like pit lane got extended into the grid area (though that should be easily addressed by us). However, it looks like Grid will not be very secure from passersby (i.e. little kids running around).
Ugh....I should wait till they are done with the improvements. This might really work out well.
Jeremy
Jeremy-
Good catch on the issues workers will help... really just makes me worry that more incidents will be full course yellows...
As for grid, looks like that will be moving into the only dry area of 'B" paddock... Maybe the Main paddock will once again be "the place to be"
Raymond
LOOKING AT THE PICTURES OF THE RUNOFF AREA AT THE UP HILL, WELL I HOPE THE WORK IS NOT FINISHED IN THIS AREA BECAUSE TO ME THIS LOOKS A BIGGER ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN. IF THINGS GO WRONG AT THIS CORNER AND YOU END UP IN THIS RUN OFF AREA ITS GOING TO BE A NIGHTMARE. THIS SO CALLED RUN OF AREA IS NOT GOING TO SLOW A CAR DOWN IF IT LEAVES THE TRACK AT THIS POINT. IF YOU GO STREIGHT IN TO THIS AREA A CAR TRAVELLING AT CLOSE TO 100 MPH IS GOING TO GO STREIGHT THROUGH IT AND IN TO THE TREES . IF IT GETS IN TO IS SIDEWAYS ITS GOING TO FLIP AND ROLE. IF YOU PUT A WHEEL OF IN IT YOU MIGHT HAVE A SLIM CHANGE OF FIGHTING THE CAR BANK ON COURSE. I HOPE THIS IS NOT THE FINISHED PRODUCT OF SOMEONES ATEMPT AT MAKING THIS CORNER SAFER. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING OF ?Quote:
Originally posted by 7racing@Jan 23 2006, 03:49 PM
Yeah, I can agree with that. First thing I thought of was no more blueflags from ANY corner station! Look at the sightline down the front straight from the entrance of bigbend (or really, try looking through a fence all day long). The safety improvements aren't very good (from a workers point of view...).
How many of us have seen an incident along No-Name straight where corner workers are helping use from driver's left? Where is there a hole in the fence for anyone to get out of the way or run to the car safely? (not that running on that berm was safe to begin with).
Where is there a hole in the fence from westbend to the front straight on drivers left? Again, where are the corner workers going to come from when someone needs assistant from crashing in the "improved" downhill?
Oh, and where did Grid go? looks like pit lane got extended into the grid area (though that should be easily addressed by us). However, it looks like Grid will not be very secure from passersby (i.e. little kids running around).
Ugh....I should wait till they are done with the improvements. This might really work out well.
Jeremy
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after thinking about it today I can't help but think that a lot of these changes coincide with ALMS (or GrandAM) needs. That said, even the temp circuit in DC for the National GP a few years ago had photo holes and access openings for workers.
<<< see avatar
I'm gonna need a lot of black spray paint if I'm going to shoot thru that fencing B)
I agree, the armco getting closer to the track is worrisome. Will the armco be lined with tires? Lets hope so. Or will dreaded gravel pits be installed? Arrgggg.
ALMS is absolutely the driving force, I am sure.
Why give UP real estate when you don't have to?? I would prefer redoing the armcos on the present spots, and adding pavement between the track and them...maybe leaving a strip of grass at the edge of the track to define the driving area. Pavement is far better to me then gravel, or closer armcos!
It seems like the pictures were taken down (404).
Does anyone know of any other pics?
Thank you!
-Kyle
My thought was that this probably a safer barrier/soft wall thing. I would guess that's a Grand Am (Nascar) requirement. Then again, they weren't needed for Busch North, so maybe it is an ALMS requirement.Quote:
Originally posted by lateapex911@Jan 24 2006, 12:59 AM
I agree, the armco getting closer to the track is worrisome. Will the armco be lined with tires? Lets hope so. Or will dreaded gravel pits be installed? Arrgggg.
ALMS is absolutely the driving force, I am sure.
Why give UP real estate when you don't have to?? I would prefer redoing the armcos on the present spots, and adding pavement between the track and them...maybe leaving a strip of grass at the edge of the track to define the driving area. Pavement is far better to me then gravel, or closer armcos!
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And if that is true, I'm not sure if a tire wall in front of it will be implemented. I just wonder if we will be billed for the styrofoam.
Jeremy
They still have tons of fill left to drop and the barrier to build - couldn't be the finished product. They will need to make the grade even with the track, otherwise a car will just travel over the gravel trap - if no gravel trap then a safer barrier that will absorb impact and not rebound the car back into traffic.Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Gregory@Jan 23 2006, 10:25 PM
LOOKING AT THE PICTURES OF THE RUNOFF AREA AT THE UP HILL, WELL I HOPE THE WORK IS NOT FINISHED IN THIS AREA BECAUSE TO ME THIS LOOKS A BIGGER ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN. IF THINGS GO WRONG AT THIS CORNER AND YOU END UP IN THIS RUN OFF AREA ITS GOING TO BE A NIGHTMARE. THIS SO CALLED RUN OF AREA IS NOT GOING TO SLOW A CAR DOWN IF IT LEAVES THE TRACK AT THIS POINT. IF YOU GO STREIGHT IN TO THIS AREA A CAR TRAVELLING AT CLOSE TO 100 MPH IS GOING TO GO STREIGHT THROUGH IT AND IN TO THE TREES . IF IT GETS IN TO IS SIDEWAYS ITS GOING TO FLIP AND ROLE. IF YOU PUT A WHEEL OF IN IT YOU MIGHT HAVE A SLIM CHANGE OF FIGHTING THE CAR BANK ON COURSE. I HOPE THIS IS NOT THE FINISHED PRODUCT OF SOMEONES ATEMPT AT MAKING THIS CORNER SAFER. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING OF ?
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with all that square footage of armco going up, maybe it's part of a plan to sell lots of advertising (like on the boards in the NHL).
Big Bend, brought to you by McDonald's of Canaan etc etc
Funny, just a few weeks ago many were posting on how there is no way LRP will ever do anything to make the uphill safer, yet here we are. The photos are really interesting and it is nice seeing some progress! But I think we need wait a little longer to see what the final plans look like.
I agree with you. Though I haven't been to Lime Rock for a few years, I enjoyed the virtually unobstructed view of the track. As someone else mentioned, (I think it was Jeremy), where can the driver go if he/she crashes into those fences...scale them? Looks like the flags will be harder to see as well. Even NASCAR doesn't fly flags from behind fences, they have platforms OVER the fences so the drivers can see the flags if the lights don't work. I'll definately have to get down there this year to see what this all brings about. I hope for your sakes, it's not more full course yellows, those are a royal pain and a waste for good racing. :119:Quote:
Originally posted by RSTPerformance@Jan 22 2006, 10:04 PM
wow, just what we need a street course with trees on the other side of the guardrails and fences rather than buildings...
Also did you notice the turns with exception to the uphill have Less run off room... for example the downhill???
Not sure why they needed to ruin the "prestigeouse" look of the track by making it into a NHIS circle track or better yet a copy of the Watkins Glenn Nascar short track...
Soon we will have full course yellows for a local spin...
Disapointing... but we will wait to see the end results before we get really disapointed...
Quote:
Originally posted by 16v@Jan 24 2006, 12:25 PM
with all that square footage of armco going up, maybe it's part of a plan to sell lots of advertising (like on the boards in the NHL).
Big Bend, brought to you by McDonald's of Canaan etc etc
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The up hill could be sponsored by Billy Bob's Body Shop!!
If I had to guess based on the uphill work they are doing it looks as if the chicane will be a permanent addition and the only way around.Quote:
Originally posted by JLawton@Jan 25 2006, 11:48 AM
The up hill could be sponsored by Billy Bob's Body Shop!!
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Well, on one hand it would certainly resolve any safety concerns in that area. On the other hand, however, it would compeltely destroy the rhythm and "feel" of the track, turning the track into basically two long drag strips. Cars that excel in momentum and handling would be at a significant disadvantage; cars that excel in torque and acceleration would rule...Quote:
Originally posted by MaxEnergy@Jan 25 2006, 08:42 AM
If I had to guess based on the uphill work they are doing it looks as if the chicane will be a permanent addition and the only way around.[snapback]72047[/snapback]
I drove the current (prior?) chicane in my street car once as part of an Audi club HPDE. It's fun and challenging and a nice chance of pace, but in my mind it's not "Lime Rock Park". - GA
I hope it ain't so! No uphill takes away a big part of the fun factor. That is a great turn to t-up a pass and run hard into west bend. I think we'd see more contact as guys would stack up into that turn in the first few laps of a race.
Greg - was is a 2nd gear turn in your street car?
Hello gang, Mike Rand here, I am overseeing all this work at Lime Rock.
I have one request.
Wait until the work is done before going on the rev limiter.
It isn't even half way there as of today, Jan 25.
Of course the uphill is a huge work in progress, there are trees still to be removed, tons and tons more fill, eventually armco, catch fence, with substantial tire walls in front of the armco .And the grade away from the track will actually be slightly up to the barriers, not sloping down.
A whole lot of people yakking about something they don't have any first hand knowledge of. It seems there are those who think we are idiots and have no idea what we are doing.
As an open wheel driver I assure you, the changes will be a safer track for all.
Whoever posted saying the runoff at the downhill is being reduced is just wrong. All the tire barriers have been moved so the armco and fence work can get tone. Access, that's all. Jeez....They will all be returned to their place.
There will NO GRAVEL TRAPS, ANYWHERE, AT LIME ROCK.
There will be appropriate holes cut in fences for flagging, photography, worker and driver access.
Hell, the fence company just finished last Friday.
Give us a break....
I hope you folks will all settle down and let us finish the job.
Yes, there will be a new false grid. Yes, it takes up some of B Paddock. Yes, it should actually relieve congestion at the bottom of the paddock poads.
The whole place is a work in progress, lots af pavement in A paddock in the spring.
And yes, many of these safety upgrades were in fact dictated by IMSA/ALMS and Grand Am.
I promise I will not create any street course, as another poster suggested, the chicane will be the track renters option. I am re-engineering it as well, lower curbs, less steep ramps on the curbs, opened up as far as speed and car alignment, ie not aimed straight at the barriers, much more of a right-left-right flick rather than the way it was. There is absolutely NO intention to require any group to use the chicane. IMSA/ALMS is the only event where it is mandated, BY THE SANCTIONING BOdY !!!
Deep breath, everyone, it'll be ok. Wait until spring, ok?
Hey Clark, thanks for sticking a blow torch into the hornets nest.....
Mike Rand
Mike,
Thanks for the update and setting the record straight. Glad to see there is a plan in place to improve some of the dangers that may have been lurking. Keep up the good work.
R
Yes, thanks for the update Mike!
I was (am) hoping the final outcome is a much improved LRP. I'll take a deep breath and wait till the finished product. :023:
Jeremy
With all of the safety improvements going in, any chance Skip can keep the wallet open a bit longer and work on adding showers and create nicer bathrooms? :023:Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Rand@Jan 25 2006, 04:11 PM
Hello gang, Mike Rand here, I am overseeing all this work at Lime Rock.
I have one request.
Wait until the work is done before going on the rev limiter.
It isn't even half way there as of today, Jan 25.
Of course the uphill is a huge work in progress, there are trees still to be removed, tons and tons more fill, eventually armco, catch fence, with substantial tire walls in front of the armco .And the grade away from the track will actually be slightly up to the barriers, not sloping down.
A whole lot of people yakking about something they don't have any first hand knowledge of. It seems there are those who think we are idiots and have no idea what we are doing.
As an open wheel driver I assure you, the changes will be a safer track for all.
Whoever posted saying the runoff at the downhill is being reduced is just wrong. All the tire barriers have been moved so the armco and fence work can get tone. Access, that's all. Jeez....They will all be returned to their place.
There will NO GRAVEL TRAPS, ANYWHERE, AT LIME ROCK.
There will be appropriate holes cut in fences for flagging, photography, worker and driver access.
Hell, the fence company just finished last Friday.
Give us a break....
I hope you folks will all settle down and let us finish the job.
Yes, there will be a new false grid. Yes, it takes up some of B Paddock. Yes, it should actually relieve congestion at the bottom of the paddock poads.
The whole place is a work in progress, lots af pavement in A paddock in the spring.
And yes, many of these safety upgrades were in fact dictated by IMSA/ALMS and Grand Am.
I promise I will not create any street course, as another poster suggested, the chicane will be the track renters option. I am re-engineering it as well, lower curbs, less steep ramps on the curbs, opened up as far as speed and car alignment, ie not aimed straight at the barriers, much more of a right-left-right flick rather than the way it was. There is absolutely NO intention to require any group to use the chicane. IMSA/ALMS is the only event where it is mandated, BY THE SANCTIONING BOdY !!!
Deep breath, everyone, it'll be ok. Wait until spring, ok?
Hey Clark, thanks for sticking a blow torch into the hornets nest.....
Mike Rand
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Hopefully these changes will take some of the bad taste out of many LRP fans mouths.
Mike, thanks for taking the time to post. Relevant info is always appreciated...you guys have earned my personal admiration for taking the effort (and getting approvals) to make these type of improvements; I'm on record as saying it could never be done...Kudos!
I personally hope SCCA does opt to run with the chicane on occasion.
Ben, do you mean with the chicane? As I recall, yes; this was in a turbocharged 5-cylinder Audi 200tq20v with suspension and power tweaks, but street tires (Dunlop, as I recall). It was a third gear corner without the chicane. - GAQuote:
Originally posted by benspeed@Jan 25 2006, 10:18 AM
Greg - was is a 2nd gear turn in your street car?[snapback]72077[/snapback]
I forgot to mention, there are strengthening cables, actually 5/8" retired elevator cable, 3 rows of it to be attached to the back side [away from the track] of the fencing horizontally for added stregth. The cables are anchored and attached to the verticals with clamps. The fence on No-Name is because there is a stream, swamp, and beaver pond just over the berm. The cable will be installed as time allows in the spring, most likely impact areas first.
The fencing on the downhill drivers left is due to the trees and, once on the straight, the stream. The intent is to contain flying objects, be they wheels, suspension, or vehicles. Keeping cars out of woods and water hazards is considered a good plan. The only aspect needing attention will be fence repair in the event of significant fence damage.
The area to be false grid is actually one of the wetter areas in B paddock, it is under water right now. If you want dry go to the opposite corner. As long as gravity is in effect water will still flow from higher ground to lower ground.
And the runoff at the uphill is going to be paved. Asphalt will be a huge help in scrubbing speed, regaining control, changing direction and will solve erosion issues. Drainage will be adequate for all but the heaviest of downpours when we usually don't run anyway.
I repeat, runoff on drivers left in the downhill and onto the straight is not going to be lessened at all.
Mike Rand
Looking forward to seeing what the end results will be like!
Mike - thanks from all of us who race at LRP. We appreciate the info directly from those who are doing the work.
It's winter and everybody is cranky to go racing - with too much time on our hands we get to postulating.
Quote:
Originally posted by GregAmy@Jan 25 2006, 04:47 PM
I personally hope SCCA does opt to run with the chicane on occasion.
Ben, do you mean with the chicane? As I recall, yes; this was in a turbocharged 5-cylinder Audi 200tq20v with suspension and power tweaks, but street tires (Dunlop, as I recall). It was a third gear corner without the chicane. - GA
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Hi Greg - I'd be up to try it. NNJR is going to run a muffled event on July 3rd and we can consider doing it then. I'll present the idea at our BOD meeting.
Mike, Thanks for coming onto our forum and explaining in person. It is most appreciated.Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Rand@Jan 25 2006, 11:11 AM
Hello gang, Mike Rand here, I am overseeing all this work at Lime Rock.
I have one request.
Wait until the work is done before going on the rev limiter.
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:smilie_pokal:
...and to all you guys on the "rev limiter" :angry: :P
Mike, thanks for checking in!
I haven't kept up with your travels, but I remember you were the gm at LRP during some pretty good times, but left for other pusuits. Good to have you back. having you on the case is reassuring.
I read your post and think most changes are EXCELLENT...esp the uphill, where a double row of tires would have made a HUGE difference, but more PAVED runoff is even better!
I guess I misunderstood when I looked at the pictures, on the outside of the downhill, it looked like the posts that are driven in the ground for te new armco were 6 feet or so inside the old armco, but I guess I was mistaken.
I look forward to racing at a safer track.
Any thoughts on the showers? ;)
Forget the showers, I don't mind being stinky!! :blink: I'd like to see some better drainage in "B", specially since we'll be losing some spaces......Quote:
Originally posted by lateapex911@Jan 25 2006, 09:13 PM
Any thoughts on the showers? ;)
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Mike, forgive our rants, it's just we feell there has been some.........."communication" issues with LRP in the past.
Mike, since we have your ear. :D Any possibility of not having bathroom attendants waiting to be tipped at events? When one pays a decent amount of money to get in as a spectator (or entrant) for events, this is very annoying.
Quote:
Originally posted by JLawton@Jan 26 2006, 07:52 AM
Forget the showers, I don't mind being stinky!! :blink: I'd like to see some better drainage in "B", specially since we'll be losing some spaces......
Mike, forgive our rants, it's just we feell there has been some.........."communication" issues with LRP in the past.
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Hah! wait till you race around me and you will change your mind about showers. I am one rank boy after sweating all day.
Actually, I never thought I would see an attendant at a race track. That just seems wrong to me, its not like your at a upscale nightclub....ok even if the non upscale places in Baltimore and DC have attendants now.