ITS Ford Mustang(s) Build - Stripper Stang Part II

Cool stuff with your cross bar, but we've got to use the stock steering column and supports. The tow straps I have are not 24" long like we thought, but very much like yours. A bit shorter although we've got an adjustment piece in there. Your car is looking good!!

We got a bit more done over the last few days. Fixed stang2's radiator support issue from some bozo hooking a tow rope up to it and about pulling the front end off. A bit of welding and metal fixed that right. The motor is finished up and shipping this week. Things are moving along.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/twins.jpg



http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/fixing.jpg

The stripper twins are off to get some serious exhaust work. Burns Stainless collectors, Burns speced exhaust, and some lightweight components.

http://gt40s.com/images/Mustang/strippertwins.jpg

I like the way you guys take care of business! Looking good!

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Originally Posted by CRallo

I like the way you guys take care of business! Looking good!

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+1

I'm really enjoying this build. Out of curiosity. What wheels are you going to use? I'll bet the factory ones are close to 20lbs each.

Steve

We work a lot. Lots. Took apart a transmission last night and will be building one up tonight, as well as starting fab work on our traction bars.

The factory V6 Pony wheels weigh 15.1 lbs each. 15x7s, suitable for rains for sure.

We are going to use the Spinwerks wheels, 11.2 lbs each at $210 each. They are the only wheel we located in the 15"x7" five on 4.5" pattern that came in at that low of a weight. We did find lighter 15"x7" wheels, some in the high 9 lb range, but they required those blasted adapters since they aren't a native five on 4.5" pattern, thus driving the weight up and over the Spinwerks weight.

Wow, 11.2lbs each? And that's not a terrible price.

Looking forward to seeing these cars in 2012 - but only in a good way!

It is SO going to confuse the crap outta people when these things are pretty good, too!

K

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Originally Posted by Knestis

It is SO going to confuse the crap outta people when these things are pretty good, too!

K

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True that.

The project thus far has been a pleasure. The most perplexing thing to me is people who state "that car can't race in IT, it won't handle." or "that car won't have enough brake". There is much self-professed armchair lore about Mustangs in road racing that isn't worth a damn, but there is real knowledge out there about racing the cars if you pick up the phone or draft up some emails.

Yes, you can make a Fox/SN95 Mustang handle in IT-trim. There are entire businesses built around Mustang suspensions and parts are plenty. Yes, you can make power, competitive IT-power from a domestic engine as there are many builders who know their stuff. Jeff Young's car is the closest actively racing analog that I know of and I don't think anyone can argue with the results. The TR8 kicks ass. The Mustang might not be that good but it'll be fun and racable.

I'd say most people are extremely supportive but some of the long-time SCCA folks offer up some quizzical expressions when I tell them my new car isn't a Mazda, Honda, or Nissan.

A car is a car is a car. Most can be made to race, and race well (well, not a Jensen-Healey).

These cars were planned out incredibly well. I have no doubt they will be competitive out of the box with really only suspension tuning keeping them from the front of the field and that will come. Quickly too since Jeff G. knows his stuff.

ITS next year is shaping up to be STRONG in the SEDiv. I know of an MX-5 (the 170 hp one) being built, plus Steve E.'s new RX7, Harold Corbin's new RX7, and these cars. You add that to me, Zsolt, Chuck Hines, Steve Parrish, Kent Thompson, Ron Munnerlyn's improved Miata, and others and you are going to have 15-20 car fields with 10 cars that can win.

Should be a blast.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

True that.

The project thus far has been a pleasure. The most perplexing thing to me is people who state "that car can't race in IT, it won't handle." or "that car won't have enough brake". There is much self-professed armchair lore about Mustangs in road racing that isn't worth a damn, but there is real knowledge out there about racing the cars if you pick up the phone or draft up some emails.

Yes, you can make a Fox/SN95 Mustang handle in IT-trim. There are entire businesses built around Mustang suspensions and parts are plenty. Yes, you can make power, competitive IT-power from a domestic engine as there are many builders who know their stuff. Jeff Young's car is the closest actively racing analog that I know of and I don't think anyone can argue with the results. The TR8 kicks ass. The Mustang might not be that good but it'll be fun and racable.

I'd say most people are extremely supportive but some of the long-time SCCA folks offer up some quizzical expressions when I tell them my new car isn't a Mazda, Honda, or Nissan.

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Originally Posted by JeffYoung

A car is a car is a car. Most can be made to race, and race well (well, not a Jensen-Healey).

These cars were planned out incredibly well. I have no doubt they will be competitive out of the box with really only suspension tuning keeping them from the front of the field and that will come. Quickly too since Jeff G. knows his stuff.

ITS next year is shaping up to be STRONG in the SEDiv. I know of an MX-5 (the 170 hp one) being built, plus Steve E.'s new RX7, Harold Corbin's new RX7, and these cars. You add that to me, Zsolt, Chuck Hines, Steve Parrish, Kent Thompson, Ron Munnerlyn's improved Miata, and others and you are going to have 15-20 car fields with 10 cars that can win.

Should be a blast.

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Plus my soon to be freshened ex travers tapper rx7.

2012 is looking like a lot of fun. I know we've lost a few ITS racers in the SE but we've picked up a couple of news ones too. I'm excited and looking forward to being out in a new, somewhat modern race car.

Long day on Saturday in the garage that started around 8am. both Jeffs came over and despite around nine hours or so working out there about all we got done was the first T5 rebuilt and a bit of cosmetic dash work along with garage cleanup. I'm sure T5 rebuild #2 will proceed at a much faster rate.

I pickup the engine tomorrow and the rear end on Tuesday. I hope the exhaust gets finished up by Friday so that I can start the re-assembly work.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginedonesmall.jpg

Got the motor home and uncrated, I like! good attention to detail and complete information down to part numbers for bolts, gaskets, etc. as well as all the important clearances and operational info. Obviously there is much work to be done on the motor with the front dress and all, but at least we've got a motor in house. Engine #2 for the second stang has been received and torn down already so I expect we'll have that one back in half the time of this one. Damn good chance we'll get both cars out for VIR in March. Might not be sorted, but I think the chances are high we'll at least run them.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginehoist.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/intake.jpg

I will be coming out to VIR to see these beasts - I need to sort out my car so this will be a great opportunity to meet you folks and congratulate you on a great build and hopefully some congrats on admirable race results!

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Originally Posted by benspeed

I will be coming out to VIR to see these beasts - I need to sort out my car so this will be a great opportunity to meet you folks and congratulate you on a great build and hopefully some congrats on admirable race results!

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Bring it. I love 968s, always have. Just as long as you aren't afraid of some domestics ruining the look of your run group.

Got some more parts in today, the Burns collectors displayed with the Christmas cookies. Now, I like what Burns does, no doubt, but their collectors are overpriced. Our local shop did a 90% accurate job of replicating the Burns collectors for that Z at about 1/6th the cost. Now that he has an actual set of Burns collectors I am certain he'll be able to duplicate them for a fraction of the cost.

We're going to run an experiment - one stang will get 100% Burns speced exhaust and Burns collectors, stang two is getting off the shelf long tube headers with knock off Burns collectors. Otherwise the two motors will be identical and we'll see where the chips fall.

Stang $2's wiring harness got pared down tonight so some actual work did occur.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/burns1.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/burns2.jpg

Looking forward to running with the Blue Ovals - whoever got to hating the domstics missed the fun of powering out of the corners with a little torque. Heck, my favorite car is still my ASA/GTA stocker - 450hp and 2550 dry - uber fun but nobody to race in that class. IT is where it rocks in the NE...

Save me a cookie...

No cupcakes?

No cupcakes.

Yeah, I hear you on larger engined cars. The thing is, the SCCA seems to be largely dominated by folks who grew up on imports and hating on domestics, or so it seems. I like both kinds of cars, Mustangs AND Camaros.

Stang two is now getting the homebrew Earp-ghetto exhaust. For a couple of benjamins we can put our TIG/MIG skills to work and make an exhaust. We're going to do that and compare the results with the superdooper Burns custom special. Turns out off the shelf long tubes (certain ones) are the same length as the fourth order harmonic for this engine, which isn't bad. The third order harmonic is typically used for best tq/hp but the fourth is good, so one my achieve decent results with $159 headers and some attention to detail on the collectors and post-header exhaust.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

Turns out off the shelf long tubes (certain ones) are the same length as the fourth order harmonic for this engine, which isn't bad. The third order harmonic is typically used for best tq/hp but the fourth is good, so one my achieve decent results with $159 headers and some attention to detail on the collectors and post-header exhaust.

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Over my head on that one can you explain 3 and 4 harmonics to me?

Might get the terminology wrong but it is the length of the sine wave for the exhaust gas pulses.

If I remember correctly you want the length of the primariy to match one of these lengths. Stops feedback/backpressure.

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Originally Posted by Steve35

Over my head on that one can you explain 3 and 4 harmonics to me?

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Ron,cage and interior look great. Nice job with the silver paint. Very sanitary looking.!
Enjoying the thread.

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Originally Posted by Steve35

Over my head on that one can you explain 3 and 4 harmonics to me?

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I can't do the mathematics any longer (maybe I can, but I haven't done any simple wave calculations in 20 years and I'm sure there is an engineer here that is more up on this than I am) but what you've got is oscillating pressure waves in your exhaust that depend on a variety of factors, but engine RPM (piston speed, gas velocity) & tube diameter are of importance to us. These pressure pulses can either help your exhaust scavenging or hurt it, and you can tune your header to help in the RPM ranges you wish.

The waves will be of various orders will have different tuning lengths based on the order, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc., just like a open pipe resonance (flute), certain discrete values constructive interfere and other destructively interfere. For this engine the first and second order harmonics at the operating RPM are too long to be of practical use for a header primary, the third is fairly long, and the fourth order is shorter and very close to some off the shelf 3.8L long tube headers. That is why a couple of the 3.8L racers I've spoken with get pretty good results from a aftermarket long tube.

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Originally Posted by lateapex911

Ron,cage and interior look great. Nice job with the silver paint. Very sanitary looking.!
Enjoying the thread.

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Thanks much. We've been working hard on these things as a lot of the work is behind the scenes and not shown, or done a couple of years ago while collecting data and amassing information.

Yes--I too very much enjoy car building threads.

Especially for Fords!!

I'm a project car junkie... need... updates....need fix...help...:wacko:

Tranny rebuilt. Cracked oil pan on the motor that was delivered last week, had to replace that. Old motor out of the car. Work started on fabbing the panhard and tri-link mounts. Steering rack rebushed. Plan of work for brake lines and ABS removal begun.

Ron may have gotten some pictures over the weekend. Car still looks great.

There has been significant progress on the build but some of it is sort of behind the scenes.

The transmission was rebuilt and is ready to go. Ditto on the rear end. Old engine and transmission were both removed and the engine bay was cleaned up. Lots of parts gathering has taken place. Much thinking has gone into the rear end situation but no metal has been cut or fabbed up. Steering rack was rebuilt, all new parts there. Ditto on the power steering pump, water pump, and the engine was dressed out. All new injectors, and lots of other new parts.

As Jeff mentioned the oil pan was cracked during shipping and not immediately noticed. So, while the engine and tranny were assembled that had to come completely apart. And, the oil pan had to come off. Since the oil pan was off, and I pulled the front cover as the shop manual advised (don't do it, not needed), I went through and checked out the intake and valve train to see if it was as expected. It was. Bottom line is a lot of work was done for an oil pan replacement but all is well now.

Here are a few pictures.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/engine.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginefront.jpg



http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginebay.jpg

Damn shame the front dress and harness really covers the motor up. It was nice and simple before all that crap went back on.

Everything takes time though, more time than you'd expect. Three hours tonight to dress the motor back out - chasing threads, prepping parts, messing with getting the right size injector o-rings, and so on to make sure it goes together correctly and will come apart if needed.

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Originally Posted by Ron Earp

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginefront.jpg



Damn shame the front dress and harness really covers the motor up. It was nice and simple before all that crap went back on.

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No kidding. Are you sure you got all the pulleys put on? Maybe you missed a few? http://smiliesftw.com/x/smiley-rofl.gif

You might need an extension for the crank pulley- looks a bit short.

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Originally Posted by SPiFF

No kidding. Are you sure you got all the pulleys put on? Maybe you missed a few? http://smiliesftw.com/x/smiley-rofl.gif

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Sheeet, you'll be wanting to buy some pulleys from me when I motor by you on the back straight at VIR.

Seriously, the front dress is a mess. I'd like to lose the AC bracket on the left hand side of the motor but I don't see a way I could legally make the belt routing work once it was removed. And of course it sucks to have the dreaded power steering pump too, but that is legally required.

A lot of things I do like about the motor though - simple, high quality OEM harness, good fasteners, large displacement, low revving, and easy to work on. Oh, did I mention fuel injection, yeah, that is a new one to me. Very different from the Z motor, although the good ol Z motor works well, let's just say I'm looking forward to no more valve adjustments.

D.3.e. Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part.

Seems that the relevant pullys/brakets/belt drive are a part of the whole of the AC system. If the car was delivered without AC from the factory, you are limited to that configuration. If it was not, I read that rule to let you remove the accessory drive part of the AC system. IISYCYBWC

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Originally Posted by shwah

D.3.e. Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part.

Seems that the relevant pullys/brakets/belt drive are a part of the whole of the AC system. If the car was delivered without AC from the factory, you are limited to that configuration. If it was not, I read that rule to let you remove the accessory drive part of the AC system. IISYCYBWC

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I think I'm 100% legal in removing the AC compressor AND the bracket based on D.3.e as the year model Mustangs in question had AC as standard equipment. In fact, I think I'm 100% legal to remove the entire box on the inside of the car, but leave the heater core, because Ford refers to that box as the AC System. But, before people get up in arms over it I kept the entire box because I want a functioning defrost. Weight penalty was around 11 lbs.

But, while I think I am legal to remove the AC bracket once it is gone and its associated tensioner, the belt routing becomes impossible without adding additional idlers or tensioners elsewhere.

The water pump is a reverse rotation pump, that is, it turns in a direction opposite of engine rotation. It is driven back the backside of the belt and the pulley has no groves on it.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginebelt.jpg

A few more hours of work last night resulted in the dash getting in, wiring harness tidied up, injectors re-installed, water pump off and measured, and a few other things.

Still have a bit of cosmetic work on the airbag cover on the dash but otherwise it looks pretty good. All stock gauges are functional and will be supplemented by a couple of mechanical gauges (oil P, water T) and one of the Aeroforce CAN bus reading gauges that will also have two analog inputs, wideband and oil pressure. The Aeroforce gauge can signal alerts based on threshold values and serve double duty as a warning light.

In fact, not only are the stock gauges functional but the other street required items are functional too - signals, lights, horn, etc. so we'll be keeping that street registration for engine break in and checking out problems over the years. An exhaust with cat will be fabbed to pass emissions when needed and the OBDII system is still functional since we're using the Ford computer.

Another milestone was passed a couple of weeks ago when we uploaded a program that I made using the SCT Advantage III software. The Ford HHU1 computers, which the 98 cars use, has been cracked and you have 100% access to all parameters in the ECU. For my first round of changes I disabled a lot of stuff we don't need like the passive theft system, EGR, secondary O2s, corrected for gear ratios, and so on and the program worked. I'm developing the second version now that will have modified timing and fueling curves and take advantage of some other really neat features built into the ECU.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dashclose.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/pumps.jpg

And yet more work accomplished. I think we've worked on the car/garage/components every day since the 26th. Going to need a night off.

Pressed bushing into the rear end and mocked it up at ride height. Also got x-y-z coordinates for all the suspension pickup points (was a day of work a couple of weeks ago) on the rear and fed them into our suspension simulation. The rear is a scary thing on this car, but with some careful considerations it can be made to work well. Bushings did well, panhard mounts mocked up too.

Also mounted the seat in the car to get a feel for how everything lines up. First off, this car is huge inside. Chris at Competition Cages did a great job of pushing the cage out to the outside dimensions of the car at every opportunity. Lots of room and that is a welcome change from the Z. Not for everyone I'm sure, but I like it. However, being a large car with a large interior volume, I look like a midget sitting in it. Lots of space for components and an extra seat if one wanted to use the car for DEs, track days, instruction, etc.

Up next will be spare motor dis-assembly and a lot of parts organization upstairs in the garage. We need to build some shelves and get stuff in their proper places. We've got so many parts of stairs - three subframes, axle, engine block, heads, hoods, fenders, doors, two complete Mustang suspensions, stacks of rotors, piles of calipers - the list goes on and on. We have an electric winch tied to a huge beam that we use to hoist up the heavy bits. At some point we need to say no to more parts.

Did some more work on the ECU programming so I could understand that. Man, coordinating all these tasking for building a new race car is a full time job. It is a lot of fun but it sucks up some time.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/ecutuning.jpg

Lots accomplished on Saturday with the engine getting fully dressed and finished, one engine broken down and hoisted to the attic. We also did a big job in reversing the pulldown attic staircase so we could go upstairs with a car on the lift. Been dreading that job but it was only a couple of hours.

Mucho work done Sunday starting around 6am and finishing up in the afternoon. All brake lines fabbed, bias valve in, engine in, tranny in, and that was enough.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginein.jpg

Also helped my daughter on her science project, helped a neighbor fix a four wheeler, and grilled dinner. I'm bushed.

Three hours of sitting around and looking at the rear. Not much accomplished. But a plan is formulating....

Excel sheet from johnny
http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/mustangrear.xlsx

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/Snap1.jpg

Quite a bit has happened over the last few days - lots of parts ordered, a plan for the rear put in motion, kill swtich wired up, air intake fitted, lots of wired tidied, PS pump plumbed and tested for leaks, Some bearings installed, tranny aligned, rear installed a few times, roll bars tested and checked, gauges plumbed, seat installed, and the main instrument panel cut and fitted.

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/enginehookedup.jpg

http://www.gt40s.com/images/Mustang/dashprogress.jpg

Wow. I've been out of town and you've been at it!! Nice job!!
When you say "we", do you mean "jeff?"

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Originally Posted by lateapex911

Wow. I've been out of town and you've been at it!! Nice job!!
When you say "we", do you mean "jeff?"

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There are two Jeff's around the garage - Jeff Y whom you know and Jeff G who is building stang #2 in the same garage as mine. Jeff Y pops in and helps when he can, and Jeff G and I work on the cars about every night for a couple of hours and most all weekends. Jeff G lives in my neighborhood which makes it more practical than most situations. So yep, we means "Jeff".

Exhausts for the two cars are still not done, although car #2 does have a complete cage. I have some work travel for the next week thus there will be no updates, but Jeff G will be continuing with sub assemblies for his car. I've said it before but after spending four hours on the phone in the middle of a business day coordinating parts orders and so on I'll say it again, building a damn car is a full time job. Especially if you want it done correctly.

Yea, it's time consuming for sure. Smart play on the two for one deal!
Like your approach with the software for suspensions, etc.
I figured that was a lot of work for Young, since he's always in Amsterdam smoking pot....and stuff....
;)