Bad igniter?

I posted the following over onthe autocross-roadrace site in a thread about Honda distributors packing up. Got no answers, guess I'm either too old or too un-cool!

Thanks!!

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We had what sounds like the same problem with '86 Civic ITC car at NHMS this past weekend. Tach jumping, mis-fire, quit making noise! We were running enduro and when it started, Steph thought it was running out of gas and came in, making it to 15 pit spots away, we pushed it to our spot, refueled, I got in, started it up and went back out. The tach was jumping but it ran ok, then was overheating 240 instead of the usual 200, I backed off and cooled it back down to 200 and was just cruising for a finish when it started mis-firing etc and then quit again and I parked it trackside, was towed to a safe spot and flat towed to the paddock after the race, at which point it started and was loaded on the trailer. I understand all the symptoms could be associated with the igniter, but could the over heating?? Will a bad igniter cause ignition advance which I know will cause over heating? Or do I need to be looking for a second problem, like a blown head gasket?

Local import parts guys said basically all Hondas from 1985 to 1990 had the same ignitors. True?

I had something like that happen during the ARRC enduro several years ago on our '85. Turned out the coil was slowly dying. But while we were trying to fix/replace other parts and going back out (it would start and rev just fine on pit lane) and continuing to run on it without solving the problem, the engine obviously wasn't real happy and eventually blew the head gasket. I'm thinking that maybe it was getting some kind of pre-ignition or just that from not burning completely, or at all, it was doing some wacky things to the cylinder pressures, eventually causing the gasket to blow. This happened pretty early on during the race, and because the head's so easy to pull on that car, we actually replaced the head gasket, and finished the race. It wasn't until right after the head gasket fix that we finally replaced the coil and it ran great until the finish. Live & learn.

Likely best just to replace the whole distributor, fighting a bad coil or ignitor can be a PITA, esp. when they are breaking down from heat.

You can also check that your alternator is giving a full charge at high rpm/load. I had a loose belt last season that gave symptons similar to fuel starvation and distributor problems. The car would fire fine in the paddock, but would lose power. (I know mine is EFI, but something to look at)

You also might change your plug wires. I've had issues with the plug wires breaking down over time causing weird misses and/or the tach jumping.

Agree with the rest of the items listed above ^^

I don't know about the Civic ignitors, but the 86-89 and 90-91 Integra's used the same ignitor (non-OBD stuff). These ignitors were famous for breaking and were actually recalled from the factory. I don't trust what Honda/Acura decided was the solution, so I could easily believe your ignitor is going bad. FWIW, I don't trust OEM inductive ignition systems in a race environment and use MSD stuff.

Yeah, we use MSD also, the distributor/igniter triggers it.

My question is, can the ignition issue be causing the overheating?

I'm sorry, I don't know what happens when an ignitor is starting to go. I would assume that the power sent to the spark plug would be reduced (or intermittent), which should not cause overheating. However, if it can cause timing issues, then yes, it could cause overheating. It sounds like (from R2racing's post) that it could potentially cause timing issues, and thus overheating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed Funk

Yeah, we use MSD also, the distributor/igniter triggers it.

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I like to use an MSD external coil instead of the stock ignitor.

I have some insight from my daily drive this weekend, yes I labored over it!

Dropped in OLD motor and tranny from 93 DX HB into 95 LX automatic. With extra 5 seconds of cranking to fill the fuel rail, it fired right up. Shut it off after 90 seconds since I didn't have water in it. Filled everything, fired it back up, let engine idle with parking lights on (so I could see the OEM water temp gauge) for 25 minutes until the thermostat open, waited another 5 minutes, happy as could be, shut everything down and called it a night.

Monday I go out, drop car off the jackstands, fire motor which starts right up.......15 seconds later it dies! WTF? Cold idle screwed up or what? The issue continues even if holding the rpms to 1300-1500 rpms, 10-30 seconds after starting engine would die. Took the car for a 20 mile test loop, ran fine if you were moving, noticed a lack of power in the 2500-3000 rpm range, pulled up to a stop light, engine burped, then 5 seconds later died as if you turned the key off. Started RIGHT back up, WTF!

Swap dizzy's, all was good, car runs great now. Seems I was on THAT edge of the coil or ignitor failing at idle. I literally thru EVERYTHING away tonight, including the OBD-0 Dizzy I was wanting to work with AJ Nealy on, bad karma shipped out!

I do plan on buying a NEW OEM unit from Honda dizzy for $240 to be my main unit and retire current unit as a backup, this is DD issues though. Distributor King units are about $150 and have questionable electronics, the $90 difference is about one good tow bill home.

Sorry for the rambling, it has been a LONG weekend to get my work/DD car ready knowing I have a SCCA Solo National Championship tranny to work on BEFORE Nats.

Thanks guys, we're working on it, will probably not go to the Glen in 1 1/2 weeks, test day at NHMS instead.

I would look at the main relay if the car still has one. They are known for melting internally and causing the exact problems you described...