Toyo R888

Does anybody have any experience running the R888? I've heard more than a few people have complained that they become unpredictable after just a few cycles. But there's that $100 coupon I'd like to get my hands on. Oh, and Steve, if your reading this please drop it in the mail ;).

I see SEDiv IT7 rules allow the use of the R888 and I understand the RA1 will be phased out.

Since the IT Triple Crown and ProIT do not support an IT7 class I was thinking about switching to ITA, going with Hoosiers and avoiding any potential problems. Or maybe not.

What do have you guys heard?

It is all hearsay, but my information [from a dealer] is that the 888 is inferior to the RA1 on several levels.
I was shocked when I heard this, Grassroots Motorsports magazine
did not seem to think so, and they have done some research.
Carlos

Fairly extensive discussion here:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=964597

Weed out the DE guys and you may find some nuggets of wisdom.

We've raced our R888's at VIR and CMP. Unshaved. In the dry, wet and drying conditions. Similar performance 'advantage' as the RA1's: cheaper when you buy them and cheaper when you use them. Still slower than Hoosiers. I consider it a performance advantage because we couldn't run as many races if we had to put Hoosiers on all the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wcmcarlos

It is all hearsay, but my information [from a dealer] is that the 888 is inferior to the RA1 on several levels.

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I received the same information, probably from the same dealer which is what prompted the post. I have not found evidence to suppport the claim anywhere else so now I'm confused. Since I'm really new at driving I doubt I could tell a difference and could really use the $100 one of the Toyo coupons would save me so I'll probably go with the R888's.

The question now is shaved or unshaved?

If it helps any, we were advised by the tire dealer that not shaving the tire would make them more consistent over the life of the tire and increase their useful life span. They will be slower at 6/32 but we haven't experienced any chunking or even extreme feathering. Obviously we have not run them in the heat of the summer yet either.

i'd be curious what tire dealer told you that.

that advice is very suspect in my experience/opinion.

I ran a set of full tread 235x40x17 888's on my ITR 325 at Willow Springs last year. I ran the same setup as I run with Hoosiers and shaved RA1s. Willow is real hard on left side tires and it was about 90 degrees there.

I found them a little faster than RA1's but still slower than Hoosiers. They wer'nt quite as predictable as the RA1's. But here's the main problem I found. They didnt last that long! I ran 4 laps in practice and 4 in qualifying and then a 15 lap race. I did a this at a double race at Willow and then the same at Buttonwillow (much easier on tires) And they were done! Not cycled out like a Hoosier but just plain wore out.

Having said that I did notice that they wore out on the inside, so if I optimised my camber (less) for the 888 I probably would get better wear and performance. But right now I prefer RA1's when the competition isnt so tough or Hoosiers when I realy need to step up

problem with the R888s is that they have more and deeper voided area for improved rain performance. that means less rubber than the RA1 is doing the same amount of work (remember the rubber compounded hasn't changed), resulting in higher wear. you can't shave them down to 3/32nd like an RA1 and have them essentially become a slick either.

the RA1 was a much better dual-use tire in my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tnord

problem with the R888s is that they have more and deeper voided area...

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Where did you get this information from? Do you have any numbers to quantfy this? I do not doubt you I am just curious.

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Originally Posted by tom_sprecher

Where did you get this information from? Do you have any numbers to quantfy this? I do not doubt you I am just curious.

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well........just look at a r888 next to a 3/32nd ra1. this is also feedback from a SWC TC driver.

Looks can be decerving and that's one reason I asked if you had any numbers. It would not be surprising that once you added up all the groove area on an RA1 that it would be greater than the same on the R888.

It's kind of like in the case of fine vs. course thread bolts. Fine thread bolts can be torqued to a higher setting but many assume the opposite.

as i previously mentioned, the void area on the r888s go deeper than on the RA1. feedback from SWC TC driver indicates it goes as deep as 1/32nd or more. shave an RA1 down to the typical 4/32nd or less and you're effectively left with a slick, not the case with the r888.

After reading the thread Andy linked to it appears that the R888 comes in at 6/32 and most agreed it does not need to be shaved. Also, several commented the unshaved R1A is a better rain tire than the R888 which I found interesting.

So I guess I'll pull the trigger on a set of unshaved R888's and see what happens. I don't think it will make a big difference to me since I'm new at this and just need to get seat time. With money a little tight right now I like that $100 coupon but don't want to make a mistake when buying a set of tires.

Or on anything else for that matter.

Thanks for the help you guys,

I was told that the SWC drivers were scared to death racing the R888s in the rain down at Sebring. The drivers even requested to go back to the RA1s for wet use, and that Toyo quickly develop a dedicated R888 "rain" tire for future events.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tnord

as i previously mentioned, the void area on the r888s go deeper than on the RA1. feedback from SWC TC driver indicates it goes as deep as 1/32nd or more. shave an RA1 down to the typical 4/32nd or less and you're effectively left with a slick, not the case with the r888.

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Huh? If you shave the R888 to 4/32nds tread depth, the original depth should have nothing to do with it. The other two dimensions then become the only factor (void area, not volume).

I ended up going with a set of RA1's and have two of the $100 off a set of R888's coupons that are good until 6/16/08 so anybody who wants one let me know.

...and I got another $100 R888 rebate coupon today in the mail for the taking, PM me your address if you want it and I'll drop it in the mail.