Under weight...who protests?

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06-17-2007, 04:00 PM
C. Ludwig

So last month I came across the scales at IRP 10# under weight in SM. We made a mental error and that was that. The woman that was running the scales had me go around and weigh again and we were still 10# under. She wanted me to make a third lap but I said no it's fine, we're under, I'll take the DQ, no big deal. Went to impound and talked to the other two guys that finished in the top three and told them we were under weight and would be DQed. After impound I found the guy that had finished 4th and told him to make sure to pick up his trophy for 3rd place. I obviously wasn't hiding the fact we were illegal! So imagine my surprise when I check the official results and we kept our 3rd place finish!

Question is...who makes the call on weight? Does another driver have to protest? Is it an automatic protest from the stewards? If the drivers have to protest are they supposed to be informed by the stewards that someone was under weight? How eles would you a driver find out? You can't be expected to stand there and watch all your fellow competitors being weighed.
06-17-2007, 04:04 PM
RKramden

Tech fills out part of a form and hands it to the Chief Steward.

The Chief Steward can either apply a penalty (Chief Stewards Action), or forward the form to the Stewards of the Meet. (Called a Request for Action).

The GCR has the details.

The key is 5.12.2.C: Powers of the Chief Steward
The Chief Steward may:
1. Disqualify a driver or an ineligible car.

The key here is MAY. He/she is not required to do it. Their choice.

Also, if the scales were not correctly certified (which happens from time to time), or there were other irregularities related to the weight of cars, then it is a no brainer.

Also, the other drivers could have protested you, as you told them you were under weight.
06-17-2007, 04:18 PM
JeffYoung

Every place I run, the stewards woudl have DQ'ed you without any driver action. Looks like tech/SOM miscommunication of some sort to me.
06-17-2007, 04:56 PM
IPRESS

I got booted to last from 1st at Hallett a couple of months ago when I came up 10 lbs. under. No problem as I had fun and the guys behind me got some wood. We all were happy.
Mac

PS I added ballast before the next race.
06-17-2007, 06:40 PM
Gary L

Quote:

I got booted to last from 1st at Hallett a couple of months ago when I came up 10 lbs. under. No problem as I had fun and the guys behind me got some wood. We all were happy.[/b]

Mac - We were in impound that day, my wife tugs me on the sleeve and asks why you were turning the car around for a 2nd pass on the scales. I told her it was NOT a good sign.

In any case, you left out the best part... why you were having so much fun. If memory serves, you drove from last to first, then you went to last. :eclipsee_steering: :D :blink: :(
06-17-2007, 08:39 PM
charrbq

I've never seen an instance where an underweight car wasn't moved from it's finishing position to last in class or disqualified. You hit a wierd one.
06-18-2007, 10:24 AM
JohnRW

Quote:

...and the guys behind me got some wood.... [/b]

Note to self: Things WAAAAY too friendly in out in that part of the country.

Some reasons why underweight car might get a 'pass' at Tech:

1. Scales not 'open' for competitor use prior to race...or during during 'scheduled' scale hours

2. Scales uncertified, or not recertified for accurary within time limits specified in GCR

3. Daily scale 'accuracy check' not completed

There are a bunch of reasons why a 'light' car might not get a DQ...don't be afraid to ask your friendly Steward folks what the required processes are, and how certain outcomes were arrived at.
06-18-2007, 11:13 AM
Andy Bettencourt

Quote:

Note to self: Things WAAAAY too friendly in out in that part of the country.

Some reasons why underweight car might get a 'pass' at Tech:

1. Scales not 'open' for competitor use prior to race...or during during 'scheduled' scale hours

2. Scales uncertified, or not recertified for accurary within time limits specified in GCR

3. Daily scale 'accuracy check' not completed

There are a bunch of reasons why a 'light' car might not get a DQ...don't be afraid to ask your friendly Steward folks what the required processes are, and how certain outcomes were arrived at.

[/b]

One would then wonder why you would even bother to weigh cars if a protest or Stewards Action wouldn't stick based on lack of 'certification' or 'availability'.

You weigh them, they come up light, you weigh them again. The competitor then asks them to 're-certify' in front of them (by placing certified weights on scale, comparing and recalibrating if neccessary) and then get weighed again. 3rd strike and you are gonzo!
06-18-2007, 11:15 AM
dj10

Quote:

Every place I run, the stewards woudl have DQ'ed you without any driver action. Looks like tech/SOM miscommunication of some sort to me. [/b]

I concur Jeff.
06-18-2007, 11:42 AM
tom_sprecher

For some reason I recall that anybody can file a protest against anyone else as long as you are a member. Although that's pretty far ranging does that sound right?
06-18-2007, 12:24 PM
tdw6974

[quote]
Tech fills out part of a form and hands it to the Chief Steward.

The Chief Steward can either apply a penalty (Chief Stewards Action), or forward the form to the Stewards of the Meet. (Called a Request for Action).

The GCR has the details.

The key is 5.12.2.C: Powers of the Chief Steward
The Chief Steward may:
1. Disqualify a driver or an ineligible car.

The key here is MAY. He/she is not required to do it. Their choice.

At race last year We were 2nd in class At 60lbs OVER, the first Place car was 15 lbs under tech filed the proper RFA with stewards but they chose to not to penalize. I did not know about it until it was too late to file a protest I assume of the stewards. "fun event" haven't seen the Car or driver since.
06-18-2007, 02:14 PM
JohnRW

Quote:

One would then wonder why you would even bother to weigh cars if a protest or Stewards Action wouldn't stick based on lack of 'certification' or 'availability'.

You weigh them, they come up light, you weigh them again. The competitor then asks them to 're-certify' in front of them (by placing certified weights on scale, comparing and recalibrating if neccessary) and then get weighed again. 3rd strike and you are gonzo![/b]

A whole lot or reasons why a competitor might not get DQ'ed. Seen a few of them myself.

Example: "Official" scales not open prior to a race. A DQ that follows a 'light' weighing can be successfully protested if the scales were never open for competitors prior to the race. If the first crack at "official" scales only comes at impound post-race, how fair is that ? "Not" is the correct answer. The GCR and the Ops Manual have guidelines for how schedules, scale availability and car weights should be handled.

I always roll across the 'official scales' at the beginning of the weekend...or as soon as allowed. Why ? Well, two reasons: 1.) To gauge regional scale variances (Ohio scales are always +++ compared to WGI/Summit/etc....must be the gravity in Ohio) and one of my cars can vary +/- 5% based on what body sections are hung on it OR 2.) Make sure scales are open pre-race...softening the ground for a protest if me (or one of my buddies) is DQ'ed post-race on scales that weren't open pre-race.
06-18-2007, 03:42 PM
RKramden

The scales at the Glen used to be notorious for changing over the course of a weekend, back when it was the wood platform scales in the old F1 garage. I have seen those scales drift as much as 5 to 10 pounds over the course of a weekend event. (as the wood dries out and the scales get lighter) If a car was within 10 pounds, then they would get a pass. If you were 100 pounds under (or even 50 pounds under), then you could expect to get bumped.

As far as weighing cars even if the scales are not certified: If words gets out that the scales are not certified, then everyone in later race groups would be taking all the ballast they could out of their car. If you keep rolling the cars over the scales, then you stop a bunch of blatant cheating.
06-18-2007, 09:35 PM
IPRESS

Quote:

Mac - We were in impound that day, my wife tugs me on the sleeve and asks why you were turning the car around for a 2nd pass on the scales. I told her it was NOT a good sign.

In any case, you left out the best part... why you were having so much fun. If memory serves, you drove from last to first, then you went to last. :eclipsee_steering: :D :blink: :(
[/b]

Gary you are right, it was sort of like some of my golf shots over the green.... chip it back.... whoops back over.... :D

I was just thankful to finish a race that day. Saturday you and I were so far ahead in the wet and then I pulled that stunt in T9..... Have you ever sat in your car ON TOP of a tire wall trying to figure out who might buy your racecar? :blink: On the weight deal, the CS felt way worse then I did about the deal of sending me to the back of the pack. I was lite, and he was right!

Hey that is one fast VOLVO!

Mac
06-19-2007, 07:34 AM
Gary L

Quote:

On the weight deal, the CS felt way worse then I did about the deal of sending me to the back of the pack. I was lite, and he was right!

Hey that is one fast VOLVO!

Mac [/b]

Yes, Buzz (the CS) is a cool guy. I enjoyed chatting with him a couple of times during the weekend... I was on a novice permit, so needed his signature after each race.

The Volvo seems to be especially well suited to Hallett, and I really enjoy that track. Are you coming back up at the end of the month?