Glass Sunroof replacement

Ok so I must be missing something here....


I want to replace the glass sunroof in a 96 GSR as required by the GCR. It seems that there are two options

- replace with a panel a little larger than the existing hole
When I talked with a body shop they seemed to thing that this would cause a lot of distortion in the existing roof. They felt welding would over heat the roof and this would lead to less than desirable results. Humm... OK Then what about rivets. Yea sure but it would mean about 8 hours of labor.

- get a roof skin from a non-sunroof model and use that.
Yup! We can do that but the book says about 20 hours of labor just to replace it. This entails removing all the spot welds from the old roof. The skin from a wrecker is $300.

Am I just talking to the wrong guys? I can't believe it is going to cost $700 to $1500 without even talking about getting it repainted.

Ideas and thoughts welcome.

Dave

Dave,

Rivets!

Dave Z

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Originally posted by IP2GSR@Dec 1 2005, 03:19 AM
Ok so I must be missing something here....
I want to replace the glass sunroof in a 96 GSR as required by the GCR. It seems that there are two options

- replace with a panel a little larger than the existing hole
When I talked with a body shop they seemed to thing that this would cause a lot of distortion in the existing roof. They felt welding would over heat the roof and this would lead to less than desirable results. Humm... OK Then what about rivets. Yea sure but it would mean about 8 hours of labor.

- get a roof skin from a non-sunroof model and use that.
Yup! We can do that but the book says about 20 hours of labor just to replace it. This entails removing all the spot welds from the old roof. The skin from a wrecker is $300.

Am I just talking to the wrong guys? I can't believe it is going to cost $700 to $1500 without even talking about getting it repainted.

Ideas and thoughts welcome.

Dave

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Dave, just do the work yourself and save a TON of money. If I could do it, you can! Cut a cardboard template (make it about 1 1/2" larger then the hole all the way around). Get a sheet of metal that meets the GCRs requirements for thickness. Home Depot, Lowes or if they don't have it check out www.onlinemetals.com. Cut the metal to match the template. Then as Dave 2 said, use rivits to mount it. Start from the middle of the roof, do one rivit on one side then another on the opposite side. I did a rivit every inch. Work you way to the outside of the car alternating sides. Before doing this, put down some silicone / stuff to prevent water from coming into the car. If you take your time doing it, it will look pretty nice.

Dave--why would you pay someone to rivet a panel on the roof?

BTW, your body shop is correct about the welding. Very time consuming (if done correctly) or very warping (if done incorrectly--like too fast).

Buy some tools (clecos and a rivet gun) and a nice panel and go have fun.

Yup. Rivets. I actually paid to have a sheetmetal roofing place cut mine, after factoring the cost of material, time to pick it up, and cutting/drilling labor - $90. I used steel rivets and clear waterproof sealer, and painted it black so it would look like the OE tinted roof.

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/sunroof2.jpg

K

EDIT - the new shell doesn't HAVE a sunroof (cool) but we've discovered that it DOES have a see-through passenger floor (not cool). New sheetmetal is on the way, slowing use down more than ever. :(

Sheetmetal roofing place - for $90? How do you find one of those places? (Yes, I'm being serious Kirk.) I looked in the yellow pages in my area and didn't see anything that I think would be similar.

I was looking under "sheetmetal" in the Yellow Pages - for someplace to buy material where I didn't need to commit to a huge quantity - and stumbled onto them. Metal roofs are more common in this part of the country but they zinc, copper, tin, and enamled roof fabrication, gutters, and ornamental sheetmetal work. They are used to custom work and have all of the tools just sitting there.

K

[quote]
Yup. Rivets. I actually paid to have a sheetmetal roofing place cut mine, after factoring the cost of material, time to pick it up, and cutting/drilling labor - $90. I used steel rivets and clear waterproof sealer, and painted it black so it would look like the OE tinted roof.

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/sunroof2.jpg

K

Thanks a bunch for the feedback guys!

I have laid cardboard on the roof a few times and the compound curve of the roof made it look like a real challenge. I suppose my fear is that I will start riviting and end up with a few places where the roof or patch are going to "buckle" and the fit is going to look really butch. It is all about cosmetics after all!

No harm in trying since I can always drill out the rivits.

Thanks guys....

BTW "K" It is hard to see from the picture but did you fill it the area around the rivits or are they just hard to see on the black background?

Dave
#72 ITS

while I agree that riveting is so much easier, my car came with a riveted panel when I bought it, it is possible to weld it and have it come out well. with my team mates car we cut a piece of roof from a donor car trimed it so there was a half inch overlap and flanged the hole do it fit well. we borrowed a spot welding attachment and welded it in. you must go slow and weld a little at a time but with a little filler it looks great. time consuring but not expensive.

I do admire kirk's camoflauge job on his patch. hides it in plane sight.

Dave,

The roof on my car was made from a drawing/template that Kirk devised (thanks again K). Some tips:

1- There are rivets that are called captive rivets, the hole does not go through and the head is captured. To seal them just put a little rtv on the head.

2- Place the filler panel, with hole locations pre-drilleded, very carefully and very firmly before drilling the first hole in the roof.

3- Drill the holes from the center out, and place a loose rivet in each hole as you go. Alternate sides as you would in installing a head.

4- Pull out the loose rivets and put some sealant goop around the bottom of the panel where it will contact the roof, far enough in to surround the holes. Then start pop-riveting in the same manner as above.

Dave Z



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Yup. Rivets. I actually paid to have a sheetmetal roofing place cut mine, after factoring the cost of material, time to pick it up, and cutting/drilling labor - $90. I used steel rivets and clear waterproof sealer, and painted it black so it would look like the OE tinted roof.

K

Thanks a bunch for the feedback guys!

I have laid cardboard on the roof a few times and the compound curve of the roof made it look like a real challenge. I suppose my fear is that I will start riviting and end up with a few places where the roof or patch are going to "buckle" and the fit is going to look really butch. It is all about cosmetics after all!

No harm in trying since I can always drill out the rivits.

Thanks guys....

BTW "K" It is hard to see from the picture but did you fill it the area around the rivits or are they just hard to see on the black background?

Dave
#72 ITS

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It would also be useful for you to have a helper (anyone!) to hold down the sheet metal on the ends. Take your time riviting, have someone pull the sheet metal on the end you are working on.

Remember that you are doing this yourself and saving a ton of money. There may be a few pretty minor buldges along the way. (I found the corner ends to be a bit tricky.) Oh, one other tip that I think really helped me. Put a "pole" or block of wood inside the car to push up the middle of the new sheet metal roof. If you just lay the sheet metal on the top of the car and start riviting, my belief is that process will be harder to get it done right. When using the pole, you want to put enough pressure to raise the metal just a bit; not a ton of pressure.

After you have installed your new roof, put more goop (silicone, bath tub caulk, whatever) in the seem from inside the car. Hopefully I explained this in a way you'll know what I'm talking about.

I just painted the rivets with the sheetmetal and they kind of blended in from more than 6 feet away.

I DID use slightly thicker-than-stock sheet for mine, worrying as well that it would pucker at the edges. One more hint: You can remove the inside frame that is spot-welded to the roof, since it is a sunroof-only piece (at least on the Golf III).

K

I am going to cover up my sun roof this weekend, between trips to ALMS at LRP. I stopped by Home Depot for a sheet. Seems they only have zinc plates large enough to cover the hole. Zinc OK to use?

Zink will work find. Please make sure the thickness is equal to the original or thicker per the rules.

Thanks David, yup got the GA. covered.

It's probably zinc galvanized mild steel, actually. It will be AOK. There might be primers that are better or less good on galvanized stock.

K

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It's probably zinc galvanized mild steel, actually. It will be AOK. There might be primers that are better or less good on galvanized stock.

K [/b]

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Thanks. I will look into it.

If your sun roof is out (I suppose it is) and you use think enough ally (maybe 0.080") you might be able to use the panel as a buck to give it a little curvature that matches the roof. Thin metal probably won't take a set that easily, but the thicker stuff will. Might help on riveting. Looks like my next race car will have a sun roof that needs to be covered up so I have considered this as well.

R

Had the same problem on my GT-3 REX. Cut an oversize section out of a doner cars roof. This gave me the compound curve needed for the roof. Then I used a flangeing tool to recess the roof, and pop riveted the newly trimed doner panel into the orginal sun roof opening. Very easy and looked good. Used counter sink'd pop rivets to make it nice and smooth. Piece of cake.