Looking for a few good men, or maybe you too :)

I believe I mentioned once before about a local club putting on one the these SCCA PDE (Performance Driving Experience) events. At the time, I think several people, including Kirk, and maybe Jake?, indicated an interest in participating as an instructor. Well, now is the time to step up.

I have accepted the position of Chief Instructor for an event that will run at Pocono on June 17 and 18 (yes, that's Friday and Saturday). This event is being organized by Tri-Region. I am looking for instructors for the event. Here is the deal:

You do NOT need a comp license, but at least a Solo1 license or higher is preferred. This would include EMRA, NASA, PCA, BMWCCA, and possibly others.
I prefer experienced instructors, as in, you have done one of these events (HPDE or whatever) before. This is not required, but I'd like to get as many guys out there who've do this before as I can, since this is the first time this group is running one of these...
You must be able to deal with sitting in a passenger seat with someone who may have little experience (fear factor).
You must be able to guide these, um, potential drivers with a gentle hand (not a hand that is applied to the back of their head).
You need to be able to clearly explain and indicate the racing line, along with stressing good car handling.
You must agree to pay me... ONE MILLION DOLLARS (although I would take some sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads too).- OK, I can probably live without this one.

If you are interested, I would like to hear from you at my email address listed below. Please use the subject- Pocono PDE Instructor. Please include:
Name
Phone number
License(s) Held
Can you attend both days (definitely?)
Experience

Just for your info (if you read this far), my experience with these events has included being a participant, an official, a co-organizer, an instructor, and working with a chief instructor at other events. Oh yeah, and I'm one of the people that helped get this program rolling in SCCA. The events I've attended have ranged from privately held days to marque club events (like the Shelby Dodge club). While I am experienced, I know there are some out there who've done more of these than I have, and I sincerely hope you'd give consideration to coming out and helping me put on a good event. I can't do this without a strong team of instructors that I trust.

As a fringe benefit, instructors will receive approx. 45min-1hr of instructor only track time, along with the freedom to go out a few at a time in the groups to do pacing, on-track observation, lead-follow, and modeling of techniques. If you intend to go on track, you will need to have a vehicle that passes tech, which is not hard... Watch this forum for another announcement with entry details.

Please let me know ASAP, and I'll reply to every email I get about this to let you know what's happening. I have quite a few positions to fill, so please let me know if you're interested and can make it. I'm sure we'll find some place to use your help.

Please email me at
mattgreen(at)msquaredracing(dot)com

I hope to hear from you!

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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[This message has been edited by ShelbyRacer (edited March 12, 2005).]

Matt,

To keep instructors coming back, you'll really need to find a way to get them more track time. Yes, a big reason people instruct is because we enjoy coaching people but at the same time track time is a nice perk. The three clubs I've been with provide just as many instructor sessions as each student receives. The sessions are done so it still works well for the club (first and last sessions; two in the middle somewhere). It is usually broken out to 4 sessions totaling ~ 2 hours of track time. This is a great time for instructors to do some testing.

In the beginning you may not have a difficult time finding instructors because they want to help you / SCCA out. But in the long term I'm not so sure. I personally would rather not pack up my race car and tow it to a track for 45 minutes track time. The lead/follow is much different then open track time.

Just being honest. Best of luck!

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

Matt, jot me down on your list for future events (I've instructed at SCADS of these events), but that's the weekend of the USGP and I'll be in Indiana.

Side note: recommend you require instructors buy an intercom, unless you're providing them. - GA

Dave-

I agree with you completely, having been an instructor myself. http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif One issue at Pocono is cost. We have to run more groupss than I would normally do so that we limit the number of cars on track in each group. This unfortunately means that slots that I'd use for instructors are taken up by other groups. I do appreciate the recommendation, and if you have others, I'd be happy to listen. I want to make this program attractive to everyone involved, so that we can really offer an attractive option to a large segment of car enthusiasts (damn, that sounded so politcal...) http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif

BTW- there are sessions later in the day that are open track, that you'd get to go out with experienced drivers and run and not have to instruct. I just wanted people to know what to expect for dedicated time to instructors only. I don't want anyone to get there and feel cheated.

Greg-
Damn, you were one of the people I was hoping would be able to attend... But I will gladly keep you on the books for the future. Can you email me your phone number and email address?

Also, are you talking about in-car intercoms or track radios?

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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

Hey Matt,
Just sent you an email.
its got all my info and my driving resume.

I agree with Dave that to get a consistent instructor base you will need to come up with a consistent instructor "incentive" (ie: a run group - no or low fee).

This is EMRA's biggest problem,,, they offer virtually no incentive (not implying you are offering no incentive) to instruct,,, so the are always struggling for instructors.
No instructors means no new students,,, (I know you know all this)
If it were not for Frank Rossi,, their head instructor being a good buddy,,, I'd never bother. You pay full price,,, you may have two students per day and you dont get an instructor run group, you run with the advanced guys.

This is not to sound negative,,, I REALLY want this SCCA program to succeed,, but if you look at BMW CCA / PCA who have fantastic instructor corps,,, they give instructors a session and free or very reduced entry.

I guess I'm just agreeing with Dave Gran in a long winded way. However I hope very much to be able to drive with you and instruct for you many many times in the future.
Cheers
jimmy pettinato.
#98 BMW E30 M3 - ITE

Pocono is just too far for me but when this migrates farther south, let me know.

K

I totally agree with Greg about the intercom. Having been on the student end of things with instructors w/o intercoms, it can get very frustrating. What? Did you say to the right? Do pass or don't pass? Forget it.

A simple motorcycle (in-car) intercom can be bought for less then $100. I bought a Nacy PMC-2 intercome a few years ago and I love it. No matter what wonderful words of wisdom the instructor may be saying, it is totally meaningless if the student can't he ya.

I too would be interested to be added to the list for future events. (I'll be at Lime Rock the same weekend as your Pocono event.)

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

Hi Matt,

I've had some experience instructing on an autocross level, and just acquired a Comp. license, actually last year, but decided to take another school this year, too.

I made my intentions known to JD, but if there's anything else I can do to help let me know.

I'm very enthused about seeing this and future PDE events go off without a hitch.

I'll be there both days.

-dave
8) #29 ITA CRX
emwavey (at) yahoo.com

Cool. If JD knows, then I'll be getting your info from him I believe. You could always send it to me too just in case...

Dave and Jimmy,
I just reread your posts after talking to a friend last night. Just in case I wasn't clear, our instructors are running for FREE. You do get about an hour of *dedicated* track time for instructors ONLY, plus other time to go play with the students. All this and it doesn't cost a thing (except for gas, lodging, time, sweat, nerves, etc.) http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif


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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

Cool, I wasn't quite sure what the actual deal was.
Thats a great setup. Very fair. You should build a good instructor corps like that.
In any case,,, as I said in my email, if my work schedule lines up,,, you've got me anytime.
This program is way overdue, and I hope it really takes off.
Cheers
jimmy p.
#98 BMW M3 - ITE

Dave and Jimmy,
I just reread your posts after talking to a friend last night. Just in case I wasn't clear, our instructors are running for FREE. You do get about an hour of *dedicated* track time for instructors ONLY, plus other time to go play with the students. All this and it doesn't cost a thing (except for gas, lodging, time, sweat, nerves, etc.) http://ITForum.ImprovedTouring.com/smile.gif


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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

I am in agreement with the others that there should be some incentive. With the cost of fuel going up every day (and a refinery just lost to a fire today) we are all faced with budget issues. Are you suggesting that the instructors should not plan to bring their own track cars for this event? Being very used to Pocono in both the road race and oval configurations does help one understand what you are trying to accomplish. It is a great teaching track. Personally, I am not sure I meet your need, but will e-mail you anyway. If you were here at BeaveRun-it would be a no brainer for me (1 hour from the track).


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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song-FOR SALE
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

Quote:

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Originally posted by gran racing:
I totally agree with Greg about the intercom. Having been on the student end of things with instructors w/o intercoms, it can get very frustrating. What? Did you say to the right? Do pass or don't pass? Forget it.

A simple motorcycle (in-car) intercom can be bought for less then $100. I bought a Nacy PMC-2 intercome a few years ago and I love it. No matter what wonderful words of wisdom the instructor may be saying, it is totally meaningless if the student can't he ya.

I too would be interested to be added to the list for future events. (I'll be at Lime Rock the same weekend as your Pocono event.)

---

when i was a student doing hpde's i bought my own intercom so that no matter what instructor i had, i could hear them.

Quote:

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Originally posted by jc836:
I am in agreement with the others that there should be some incentive.

---

An hour a free unobstructed track time is not enough incentive?

Quote:

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Originally posted by jc836:
Are you suggesting that the instructors should not plan to bring their own track cars for this event?

---

Well, I'd assume they'd be bringing something to drive on track during instructor sessions. I'm not really in favor of bringing full-race cars, but so long as it fits in SS or IT, it is allowed...


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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

Thanks for clarifying it Matt. Sounds good.

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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song-FOR SALE
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

"An hour a free unobstructed track time is not enough incentive?"

Matt - just comparing it to the competition. Yes, because it is SCCA people are more likely to want to help out especially in the beginning. But other HPDEs do compete for instructors. Even though it doesn't cost an entry fee, there are tire costs (I use junky tires) and the need to take the day off. Again, just thinking about the longer term success of the program.

Most HPDEs that I've instructed with offer about 2 hours of dedicated track time. But it certainly sounds like there will be plenty of track time at this event...

Matt, are there other scheduled events this year? (I'll be at lime rock that weekend)

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

Quote:

---

Originally posted by gran racing:
Even though it doesn't cost an entry fee, there are tire costs (I use junky tires) and the need to take the day off. Again, just thinking about the longer term success of the program.

Most HPDEs that I've instructed with offer about 2 hours of dedicated track time. But it certainly sounds like there will be plenty of track time at this event...

---

Wow, there seems to be a wide range of track times available: everything from free entry and two hours of dedicated time to having to pay and getting no specific time. All in all, I'd say we're in the middle but towards the better end of the deal... Depending on event format, I could see getting more track time for instructors, possibly...

As far as tire, fuel, and other costs, the students have them too... Heck, think of my position. I'm Chief Instructor. I have little chance to get on track (other than the morning instructor session). I'm paying for room and transportation costs, as well as some costs on my track car, and getting very little... Please don't think that I'm complaining, as I chose to do this, but I'm just not sure if I feel horrible about "only" giving an hour of dedicated time, when they also have the chance to go out in open sessions, plus do lead-follow, and all they have to do is Instruct for a few sessions. I've instructed before at events where if you wanted any track time, you had to pay (usually only like half or 3/4 price)... I guess I just thought we were already giving a pretty darn good deal. Perhaps I was not entirely correct.

Dave- please don't take this as me being combative, I just wanted to lay my personal opinion out on the table. I do appreciate your input, as I obviously see things a little differently. It was a point I hadn't necessarily considered. I will relay it to our event organizers.

Quote:

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Originally posted by gran racing:

Matt, are there other scheduled events this year? (I'll be at lime rock that weekend)

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At this point, this is the only one for TriRegion. There won't be any more at Pocono THIS year, as dates are hard to get, but if this goes well, it may become an annual thing.

Watch the Region sites though, as I know there's going to be a few more of these things popping up (I'm pretty sure you'll see one on the day after the 12 Hour at Nelson).

BTW- what is at LRP that weekend? I don't have any SCCA events on the calendar... (of course I know, the SCCA isn't the only game in town...)



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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

Matt, I don't see you being combative at all. The only clubs I've looked at as far as far as intructing is SCDA (my favorite), NASA, and PDA. It very well could be that SCDA has really spoiled us instructors, which is very likely. Heck, most of us don't even run the 4th session. My intention here is not to detract from SCCA / your program. SCCA NEEDS a place for people to transition from Autocross to Club Racing and I really hope to see this grow. (I sent you a brief e-mail with some other info.)

(The LRP weekend is a Friday & Sat. SCDA HPDE.)

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Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si