F&C and Heck and Neck Restraints

I'm having an email conversation with a friend in regards to the various head and neck restraints. Most of the issues we're discussing revolved around those that secured to the car and those that secured to the body (via a harness or collar.)

Suddenly, it struck me: do the corners workers and rescue personnel actually know and understand the differences between the various systems? Do they know that early Wright Devices and Isaacs are attached to the shoulder harnesses? Do they know that others may use a body harness (new Wright, Hutchens) or a collar (HANS)?

I'd like to hear from someone (Dick? Jeff? Brian?) if there's ever been a seminar or demonstration of the various systems to corner workers and rescue personnel. If not, I propose to spearhead a demo during Friday night's end-of-the-day party. I'll round up as many example as I can, and we can demonstrate to everyone how they fit, and how they must be released from the car and/or driver (if required).

I'd appreciate it if drivers that will be there Friday night contact me if you're using any kind of head and neck restraint. I'd like to get examples of the following, at a minimum:

- Wright Device
- Hutchens device
- HANS
- Isaac

If you're got anything different than these, or have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me.

Greg Amy
grega-at-pobox-dot-com

Greg-

You have a wise friend that you email with....
The guys I've spoken with regarding it are aware, but that's a very small number. I have no idea about the "knowledge penetration" to the masses of flaggers, ggrid workers pit workers, etc, and whether or not it has been covered in any depth at all in training.

But, whenever I do talk to any of them, they say something to this effect: "If you can't get out, and I need you out fast, and can't undo something, it gets cut, and cut quick"

As the Isaac rols over the shoulder strap, cutting the strap is the best method other than undoing the pins.

Bottom line? To me, I know they'll get me out. Wheterh I buy two new starps is the question!

And as I have to replace them every two years, it's even less of an issue!

But, I do think it would be great to go over the different systems, and I volunteer my car, myself and my Isaac, if we can get this toghether. It's probably faster to undo than cut, and cheaper too. I'll be instructng Friday.

Great idea, the region can use a bright guy like you helping out.



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Quote:

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Originally posted by grega:
Suddenly, it struck me: do the corners workers and rescue personnel actually know and understand the differences between the various systems? Do they know that early Wright Devices and Isaacs are attached to the shoulder harnesses? Do they know that others may use a body harness (new Wright, Hutchens) or a collar (HANS)?

I'd like to hear from someone (Dick? Jeff? Brian?) if there's ever been a seminar or demonstration of the various systems to corner workers and rescue personnel.

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I'm not listed as someone you want to hear from, but I'll put my two cents in. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

No, there has been no seminar for the flaggers about the different systems (as far as I know). I showed a couple people on Grid the Isaac at the Driver's School, as they had never heard of it. This is something that I think needs to be done, but I never followed through with the idea. I hope you (or someone) does.

Jeremy

Hi everyone,

I have not seen a demonstration for the various devices except at a NEDIV convention so I think it is safe to say most workers have not seen the devices demonstrated. At the driver's school why don't you talk to Scott Taber(he is the F&C chief) and see if you can get the flag meeting scheduled a bit early on Saturday to see a demo. Obviously talk to Karen Petersen(grid) and someone from Pits and Fire/Rescue to see if they have people that would like to attend. I suggest Saturday only because there will be more workers and bigger benifit. I know the workers would be very glad to see a demonstration.

Marianne Lyons

I think that this would be a great topic to bring up at the next comp board meeting...

Maybe a demonstration from volunteering drivers with the devices can be organized, possibly at a worker party... It would be nice to see it open for drivers to also get an opportunity to see how the devices work. This would give drivers a great oportunity to interact with the workers.

Possibly invite the manufactureres to come and give a demonstration as well.

Additional idea:

I think it would be great to allow the manufacturers to set up a display at the track all day for free. Great sales pitch for them, and also a great way for EVERYONE to see how the systems work... Most important it would go with SCCA most important goal... Safety. Hopefully the manufacturers would offer some sort of discount to drivers. This would be a great addition to membership benifits of SCCA... IE: being a member of SCCA encourages safety as the most important part of racing and could get you discount with leading manufacturers who share the common SCCA bond!!!

Juust an idea!!!

Raymond Blethen
RST Performance Racing

Good idea Marianne-

Thnaks for skimming the net and giving us the inside scoop.

Where is Scott most easily found?

Both Greg and I should be there Friday, so we can help set it up. What time des the F&C meeting usually start? How much flexibility is in the schedule? That is my only concern with Saturday as it is a lot to cram into one day.

Regarding devices, I think we can count on:

Isaac- me
Wright device- Greg you have access to one, right?
HANS- Um Dick, romour has it you popped for one, right?

I have no idea about who has the Hutchens.



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Marianne et all, thanks for the responses. The concern I have with doing it at the beginning of the day is time and stress.

"Time" primarily because I want this to not be rushed; I'd like to introduce and discuss each of the devices, and demonstrate them on a driver in their car. I had envisioned parking one or two cars in front the beer party, giving the verbal demo with willing drivers, then asking the drivers to sit in the cars so each person could walk by and see what it looks like while strapped in (we'd give the drivers beer with long soda straws to keep them occupied...)

The "stress" comes in because doing it at the worker meeting means everyone is ripe and ready to get out on the track, drivers as well as corner workers. Plus, I've yet to see a driver arrive well in advance and sit around waiting to go on the track (myself included); most arrive negative 5 minutes before they need to be there. People at the worker meeting in the AM will also be ready to go and will not be able to take the time to review the setup and see how it works.

Having it at the end of the day removes the time and stress constraints, allowing us to be more thorough. Plus, there's beer involved.

I've also gotten private email on this, and he pointed out that many workers and drivers may not be there on Friday because it's a typical work day (and a school). He volunteered to demo his restraint device, but his is a later group and he's not arriving until after the corner worker meeting. <shrug>

So, I suggest that this is really an evening-after-the-first-day thing. If the constraints caused by scheduling at LRP are a problem (and it's just a tad too late due to my late proposal) then maybe we should postpone this to another event, maybe Pocono or the next NHIS.

I'm willing to give informal demonstrations of my Wright Device at any time, plus I'm sure Jake and others would do the same for theirs. I'm open to any ideas and suggestions in regards to scheduling this weekend.

Greg

Quote:

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Originally posted by lateapex911:
What time des the F&C meeting usually start?

HANS- Um Dick, romour has it you popped for one, right?

I have no idea about who has the Hutchens.
[/B]

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flag meeting are about 1 hour before green flag so 8 a.m. on saturday. I know that is early for Jake.

I fear at the beer party would be distracting how about lunch time in pit lane saturday. I would not try a lecture so much as let them come around in small groups and explain each device. think trade show.

yes i have a Hans with the new style helmit connectors, we should have an old one too, maybe sandy stevens. doug holmes has a huthenson. not sure if he is racing.

dick

Dick comes through yet again. Lunch time Saturday sounds like a great idea. I don't recall: are the lunches at LRP served at the grill? If so, will tech be right across the lane there? How about we put car and drivers there?

So, we've got the following:

- Greg Amy, Wright Device
- Jake Gulick, Isaac Intermediate
- Dick Patullo, HANS

I saw Scott Haven had a body harness one (maybe a Hutchens?), I'll ask him what it is and if he's agreeable.

Who else?

Quote:

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Originally posted by grega:
So, we've got the following:

- Greg Amy, Wright Device
- Jake Gulick, Isaac Intermediate
- Dick Patullo, HANS

Who else?

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I have an Issac Intermediate which I can probably bring down if you need another one. If nothing else, I will try to be around and help answer questions/demos.

Does Phil Gott have the Hutchens? I seem to remember discussing it with him (but I could be mistaken).

I know Doug Holmes has a Hutchens, and I would guess that he would be around.

Is it a go for Saturday lunch? Kind of have cars and drivers in pit lane or tech and let the workers/other drivers mull around?

Jeremy

Quote:

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Originally posted by lateapex911:
Where is Scott most easily found?

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Jake,
Scott Taber should have some contact info on the inside cover of Pit Talk. Or check out http://www.ner.org/RR/rrboard.html and look for "Chief, Flags and Communications".

Or find him at the track - I would guess most likely in the Control tower on Friday.

Jeremy

I'm "go" for lunch unless someone has any concerns about it. I'm guessing we can sweet-talk our good buddy Dick into talking ot tech about using the space...

I tried to call Scott Taber last night but his phone was busy; instead I sent an email to him. Worst case, I'll find him at the track.

This is a good idea.

BTW, I believe we have a Hutchens Device lying around here somewhere. If you can't find one locally, we could send it up at the last minute.

(The Isaac guy offers to provide a Hutchens. How weird is that?!)

Gregg

I think this is a great idea http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gifShould be done in each region at least once a year!!

Quote:

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Originally posted by m glassburner:
I think this is a great idea http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gifShould be done in each region at least once a year!!

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more often than that you won't catch every worker every year.

"Getting out" has become a very hot topic in safety circles, and people are beginning to make a distinction between getting out of the seat versus getting out of the car.

Many racing facilities which are large enough to have a dedicated safety crew keep samples of various H&N restraints on hand, just so everyone stays sharp on how they function. We have supplied Isaac samples to tracks just for this purpose.

Since SCCA regions race at different tracks, it might be a productive enterprise to provide samples to each region (rather than track) so they could keep F&C crews up to speed. Good idea? Bad idea? We would be happy to provide a sample to each region if they would make it part of a periodic safety review.

Hey, as long as Jake is going to be there, I hereby propose he give a "getting out" demonstration! He is one of a handful of racers I know who times himself under various egress scenarios. Most impressive. All hail Jake!

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

Quote:

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Originally posted by grega:
I'm having an email conversation with a friend in regards to the various head and neck restraints.

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Greg,

Tell your e-mail friend that I can get him a good deal on a still-in-the-box Isaac system. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Gregg

Jake has to do that...

Lying down he is taller than his 7, I am not sure how he gets in never mind out!!!

JK http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif

Gregg-

I think your idea of donating to the regions is a great idea... I know NER could be trusted to use it to everyones advantage and not loose it, although I could not say all regions would be the same.

Take the idea to another level, sponsor a regional championship. (not sure how to set up between classes, maybe use that valvoline championship structure where people enter into the championship and it is based on results/comp.) Anyway the winner of the championship would get a free use of the latest Isaac system for the next season under the condition that it is also used in worker/driver demonstrations at least X number of events (maybe specify those events in advance). Anyone running the championship would also be required to run Isaac logo's... Great sponsorship oportunity!!! and it benifits all parties involved!!! Actually the best part is that the system gets used and doesn't just sit on a shelf or in the back of a car when it could be saving someones life.

Oh also I think this would work, becasue people that would enter are also people who are probably very actively involved... most of the championship leaders end up involved one way or another with their region.

Raymond Blethen
RST Performance Racing

Ray,

The sponsorship idea is interesting. We'll have to mull that over.


All,

I just had to pass this on, even though it is somewhat off topic. Check out the very last photo in this thread, about 3/4 the way down:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthrea...&threadid=16351

And some people still think a doughnut will save them.

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Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com