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OK guys, I have a question about the Glen 3 hour enduro. The Supps say that you are required to have two drivers. I was under the impression that this would be like the NHIS enduro with only one driver (the regular NE Enduro series rules).
Do we need two drivers? Why is this differnt than the other enduros? Any chance I can run it by myself?
Also, what's with the mandatory two 5 minute stops...why make this three one hour races rather than run it like NHIS?
Eric
NER SM#02
The Glen Region has always required at least 2 drivers for this enduro (3rd running this year). The NESCCA enduro series is a 'team' series, and the rules were developed to allow each Region holding races lots of discretion as to length and format.Quote:
Originally posted by Blix:
OK guys, I have a question about the Glen 3 hour enduro. The Supps say that you are required to have two drivers. I was under the impression that this would be like the NHIS enduro with only one driver (the regular NE Enduro series rules).
Yes. It's not, really. Probably not.Quote:
Originally posted by Blix:
Do we need two drivers? Why is this differnt than the other enduros? Any chance I can run it by myself?
We've asked for a couple of years to let them allow a single driver or, in a twist, to allow two driver's to just "swap cars". No dice, but we should all keep asking. I know I will.
Mandatory stops takes fuel capacity out of the mix. Some IT cars with cells can't run for more than 50-60 minutes. Minimum stop length takes some hazard out of refueling, and negates advantages from tire change equipment. Teams with multiple air-guns have an advantage in 'open' or un-timed stops, and some classes of cars kill tires. Our SSC car eats a set of tires every tank of gas, even at enduro pace. Making it a 'timed' stop keeps the competition on the track...not in the pits.Quote:
Originally posted by Blix:
Also, what's with the mandatory two 5 minute stops...why make this three one hour races rather than run it like NHIS?
It doesn't need to be three 1 hour races...how about a two hour and two 30's...or any other combination you can dream up.
It is a great event, and I strongly suggest it... The party afterwards in the "club house" is also top notch and really adds to the event...
The manditory 5 minute pits stops are not all that bad and actually do add to some sort of stratagy...
Its all part of the game http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/wink.gif
Oh and the two driver thing... I think all enduros should require at least two drivers... Makes it a lot more fun.
Raymond Blethen
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com
PS: We will be racing Both ITB Audi's
#50 Stephen Blethen & Ray Blethen Sr.
#51 Raymond Blethen Jr. & Guest rising Star...
All of those reasons are valid, however, in a 3 hour enduro with all of those regulations, you change the dynamic into 3 sprint races. So how does a slower car take advantage of things like fuel economy, tire wear, etc?
It would seem that only the faster cars have a chance at an event like this unlike an event with no manditory stops with only minimum stop times for fuel fills gives everyone a shot.
No?
AB
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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com
I agree with Andy. I prefer a min. time if the fuel system is opened, but no mandatory number of stops. That way, you can actually strategize....and isn't that a part of endurance racing??
Also, I prefer to choose the driver lineup, and not be forced into any number. Again, strategy options are more open.
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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Andy - absent a 'handicap' system, is there really a way for the slower cars to beat the faster cars ? When we run the SSC car, we know we're going to get killed by ITS or SP cars, but we usually pick another target - "we want to beat all the SSB cars, too".Quote:
Originally posted by ITSRX7:
It would seem that only the faster cars have a chance at an event like this unlike an event with no manditory stops with only minimum stop times for fuel fills gives everyone a shot.
Some may remember many attempts to do 'handicapped' enduros at the Sept. "Fun One" races at the Glen. Theoretically, it would have allowed all cars a shot at the overall win. Slower classes started first, from pit lane, based on a handicap time calculated by competititors lap times in sprint races, plus an additional 'traffic factor'. Progressively faster and faster cars entered the 'hot' track. Worked good, until you had the first FCY, then the handicap went to hell (I caused it once, scattering a Volvo motor all over T1...got it behind the wall before the Esses, but the oil slick was a little too large and they FCY'ed it to clean it up...but I wasn't alone, fortunately). It got to be a real problem with the schedule and, although driver's loved it, there was a lot of flack from a lot of people about the whole concept. It just got unworkable. It was kinda cool, though.
EMRA does the 'handicapped enduro' more successfully, as Bud Krueger has some sort of magic handicap/traffic factor calculation that works great. The EMRA 4 Hour night enduro at Summit in November is always really close, due to this. If you've never run this event...you should.
Two mandatory stops in a 3 hour enduro is waaaay too much. But...start thinking about strategy...do you stop a the 1 hour mark, or do you wait until either 1.) you're out of gas or 2.) the first FCY or 3.) an FCY once you're inside the fuel window for your driver change or 4.)etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
It's the Glen...you can be damn sure that there will be an FCY, so start figuring out how to play that.
It's VERY easy for a slower car to beat a faster car in an enduro...STAY ON THE TRACK...look at the Racers Group win in the Rolex 24 and Bill OBrien's 3rd overall in the Summit Point 12 hour in an SM...that's what's frustrating about these rules to me. I drive a SM that can do well in enduro's because we don't stop but every 1 1/2 to two hours for fuel. The mandatory two 5 minute stops completely negate any fuel or tire advantage I might have. Hell...I could stop, make a sandwich, eat it, and do the dishes in that second five minute stop. Maybe I'll get out, and go pack up some stuff in the trailer...
I understand the desire to keep amateurs from trying to do things too fast in the pits as a safety precaution, and I laud that...however, I feel the NHIS rules of that require a minimum time if the fuel system is open makes this far more fair to all types of cars.
And finally WHY IN GOD's NAME CAN'T I DO A THREE HOUR RACE BY MYSELF?? That's not a long race at all. For a $300 dollar entry fee I should be able to drive the whole damn thing.
Eric
NER SM #02
Then devils advocate in me asks:
"What if you START your last stop with only a few minutes to go in the event?"
Do you get to run the stop out and then take your final lap?
The GCR says that you have 5 minutes to finish your last lap. GCR 8.4.1 says: A car has five (5) minutes after the checkered flag is
displayed to complete his or her lap.
Just make sure you pit AFTER the S/F line. (I dont think this is an issue at the Glen.)
Then I think you should fire your 'devil's advocate', since he hasn't read the Supps.Quote:
Originally posted by Super7:
Then devils advocate in me asks:
"What if you START your last stop with only a few minutes to go in the event?"
What's the most important thing to do prior to an enduro ? R E A D T H E S U P P S.
What ?!?!? You don't bother for sprint races, as they usually only talk about when the fuel station is open, what color hats the black flag station flaggers wear, what kind of tires the tow truck uses, and whether the 'Purple-K' in the fire extinguishers is actually purple (hint: it's not, really).
Well kids...for enduro's, it's critical that you study, read, study, memorize, study, etc. the SUPPS.
Regular enduro guys look at three things when they get Supps and an entry form for an enduro - 1.) Schedule, so they know how many tires and how much gas to bring 2.) Entry fee, so they know how BIG a 'hit' the old Mastercard will take and 3.) the Supps, so they know the pit stop/fueling/tire change/driver change etc. rules. They could care less about everything else.
JW
4 class wins at the Summit Point 12 Hour.
2 class wins at the Moroso 24 Hour.
Careful reader of Supps.
blahblahblah ain't I wonderful ?