More on cheating... what about impound?

OK, the cheating thread and a discussion at the recent apres Comp Board bar meeting brings up this idea.

Lets start with some truths:

1- Most of us don't like the level of cheating that is suspected of existing in IT.

2- None of us wants to be the bad guy to write the paper.

To that end, what can we do in the current system to improve things, even just a little??
Impound...we have the option of impouning as many cars as we like.

So....what are some of the things you think should be checked in impound? Obviously teardowns to check crank journals are out of the question, but most of us know about certain "cheats" that are model specific that are possible to catch in a less intrusive inspection.

If you don't want them posted on a public forum, email me off line and I will help you get them to the tech guy of your choice.

So, what are some ideas..I know thre are a bunch, lets make a lidt.

I'll start.

Rotaries are notorious for responding to porting well. I never knew how easy it was to check. So, I would like to see that checked.

A guess: VWs have lots of interchangable parts. I bet they have casting numbers..can those be chaecked??

What else???

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

Jake,

How about just going w/ a open hood policy in impound? At the MARRS races I've been at, nothing but weight is checked at impound.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

How about either a clamer rule or the one I like, any thing goes in the engine but you must run the stock carb. NO you say! Well, think about it first. With a stock cab, most of the things you could do won't work due to the small carb. No more protest! Weigh it, check the fuel, check the carb. Or do like the dirt trackers and make each car pull a spec amount of vaccum at a spec rpm. Say all cars have to pull 18 inches of vaccum at 1000 rpm. Cams out the door. Hi compression out the door. Get the idea?

Interesting topic. A couple weeks ago we had a double regional race weekend. Saturday, at the noon drivers meeting the chief steward announced they would be having impound inspections after each race that afternoon. The silence from us drivers sitting in the stands was deafening. This region seldom even had post race impounds of any kind, much less actual inspections. The silence was followed by questions from the drivers like "umm, what will they be inspecting for"? To which the Chief steward responded "oh, we have several things we will be looking for", as he sat there holding a gcr.

After the race in impound we were all out of our cars, and the word quickly spread about what they were looking for.... DOT tires. Seemed like kind of a silly thing to check for, but I think they were breaking us in easy, as they intend to carry these inspections on for the rest of the season. A ruckus erupted when one of the Porsche drivers couldn't find the DOT stamp on the side of his Kuhmos. One of the inspectors checked my tires, found the stamp, stood up and called all the other drivers and inspectors over to show them an example of what to look for. The Porsche driver had to pull one of his tires off and find the DOT stamp which was on the other side of all four of his tires.

Day two, drivers meeting. Nothing is mentioned about an impound tech this day. End of the meeting one of the drivers asked if there was going to be impound inspections. To which the steward replied that of course there would be, and no they wouldn't tell us what they would be looking for.

Day two, post race impound, drivers out of cars, hoods up. Word spreads that they are looking for fuel test ports in accordance with gcr # such and such. Panic ensues from several drivers... "fuel test port?"... I know there is one on here somewhere... Many of the guys had nicely installed, easily accessed test ports. Some guys had no ports, which was noted in their log book. In my case the factory shrader valve is an acceptable test port. However, the chief of tech quoted the gcr regarding the use of the factory port requiring a hose and shut-off valve set-up to safely use said port.

Fortunately I had my stuff together and had the valve/hose/bottle set-up back at the truck. Mr. inspector followed me back to my trailer to inspect the hose, and finally I was free to go home. I had to chuckle though, because when the fuel test port rule came about I went to some effort getting a valve/hose/bottle assembly made up that would work ok. I distinctly remember coiling that thing up, putting it in a zip lock bag, throwing in in the bottom of the tool box, and thinking, I'll never need that thing. Nobody's ever going to ask ME for a fuel sample....

Funy side story. The guy that was paddocked next to me saw the inspector in my pit and he came over right after Mr. inspector left. He asked me what they were looking for (his run group was two after mine). When I told him they were looking for fuel test ports, the expression on his face indicated to me that he didn't have one. He immediately started looking for some sort of "factory test port" on his car. Failing that, he uncovered the rubber fuel line running from the tank to the engine. He thought he had enough time to put some sort of valve in there before his race. He sprinted up to the track-side parts supplier to buy a valve. Pretty soon he came walking back empty handed. Seems the supplier had sold out of fuel test ports shortly after the completion of the inspection of race group #1...

Wayne

Wayne,

Good story. My question is simple: How did all of these illegal cars get their Annual Tech signed off?

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

Because tech people are human and over look things.

Because cars can be changed after the annual tech.

Most tech guys are looking at saftey things. Belts, cage, seat, etc. Fuel test port is a requirement, much like a legal engine, but if they miss it, the legal implications are quite minor.

Quote:

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Originally posted by apr67:
Most tech guys are looking at safety things. Belts, cage, seat, etc. Fuel test port is a requirement, much like a legal engine, but if they miss it, the legal implications are quite minor.

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Yes, this has been my experience. They check all the safety stuff pretty diligently, but the other stuff is left to the protest process. We were also told in impound to expect a fair number of cars pulled from line for fuel testing at our next event.

It's all fun and games until that day you actually win your class, after trying so hard for so long. Only to get a DQ because you were not wearing nomex socks (that was another threatened inspection this weekend).

I think just having the cars all in one place with the hoods up for a short period of time is helpful. I can assure you, the Porsche driver was a bit unnerved initially, thinking his tires may not be DOT, and having to explain it to the rest of us. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

However, in the end, it really comes down to us drivers. Corralling the cars for open hood look see's is only the first step. If drivers see something they don't feel is right, THEY have to say something. I realize the protest process by its nature is uncomfortable, and can be confrontational. But if you feel strongly about it, you have to say something. You either need to step up to the plate and say something or let it go. Get it resolved one way or the other, so you can get on with the business of racing.

Wayne

Quote:

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Originally posted by Wayne:
I can assure you, the Porsche driver was a bit unnerved initially, thinking his tires may not be DOT, and having to explain it to the rest of us. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif

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Hehe.

You know, how many people actually look at their competitor's tires? That would be an easy cheat. Buy some used slicks that don't have bright letter like the Goodyears do, and who would know?

I don't condone this. Cheaters suck. But kind of funny when you think about it. You could beat by someone on slicks and never know.

OK, so DOT tires have tread, but once they are used, some of them effectively become slicks.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

Quote:

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Originally posted by apr67:
Because tech people are human and over look things.

Because cars can be changed after the annual tech.

Most tech guys are looking at saftey things. Belts, cage, seat, etc. Fuel test port is a requirement, much like a legal engine, but if they miss it, the legal implications are quite minor.

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If I were in your Region, I would petition your comp board to really step up the tech program. I guess I have come to expect more due to the high quality of work here.

Running ITS RX-7's, we always have our hoods up in the pits to get some heat out. Being old-school Solo 2 guys, this is a no-brianer. Hoods and trunks - open for all to see. 10 minutes total in impound. Easy.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com