16-Stories...

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10-22-2003, 01:29 PM
Banzai240

16-Stories...

In an effort to keep the IT community up to speed, I thought I'd make you all aware of a document that is being distributed concerning the leadership of the SCCA, mostly focused on the CB and BoD, but also has a blurb (see Item 14) about the Advisory committees. Rather than posting it all here, I'll just provide a link to a discussion containing the document. I don't think you need to be a member of that forum to read this information.

There is some interesting information in there, but it is my belief at this point that someone REALLY has an axe to grind here and that some of the information is skewed to favor their negative position. I'm sure there will be more coming out about this in the coming weeks, so stay tuned...

Concerning Item 14... I don't know about the other ACs, but I know that when this current ITAC was formed, the number of members was increased in order to provide a better Geographical representation of the IT community, as well as to have a broader base to draw from. I personally don't know ANYONE on the CB (well, other than by name and an occasional message-board note), and I can tell you that when I was appointed, there were SEVERAL on the CB that were leary BECAUSE of my previous dealings with public forums and my criticalness of the CB in the past. I certainly wasn't a case of being someone's "buddy"... That part of Item 14 gave me quite a chuckle...

Enjoy: http://65.169.188.92/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cg...ic;f=1;t=000031

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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/We...1203_thumb.jpg
10-22-2003, 08:51 PM
lateapex911

Sigh.......someone needs to get a full time job.

The item about Joe Riolo cracks me up. Essentially he's a guy with an ITS Z car who wants to go National. No offense to him, but he's not exactly at the front of the ITS field, much less the EP field. So he raced it as an EP car. And the engine was too large. (But underprepped) He finished mid pack, and "stole" points from lower placing cars, like John Weisberg, who either blew or crashed. The bottom line here is really no harm, no foul. If the other competitors were bothered, and had their points "stolen", then how hard would it have been to have a chat with him or protest! Isn't that how it works???

Much ado about nothing here! (It's kinda like saying that if a CB member is at a race that has a car running illegaly, then they are slacking in their duties.)

And the innuendo of item 14, involving JD and presumably others also falls on it's face. First, why is the letter even posted with JDs address visible??? Give the guy a break and show some respect! And I disagree that the letter was out of line. I have dealt with both parties, and I can see why JD is not AC material. I'm still looking for a crime here.

The issue I see here is the tilted info that has been presented. If the other issues hold as much water as the issues mentioned that I am actually aware of, then this is the mental masturbation of someone with too much time on his or her hands....

That said, I am sure that there have been mistakes made in the past, both accidental, and self serving. But keep in mind, the folks I know who volunteer their time do it while juggling a job, a family, their racing, taking out the trash, etc. Why must we make them waste their time defending such silly issues as some of these?? Let's let them try to wade through the real issues!

I hope the writer of this slanderous tome has done us all the favor of walking a mile (And since the writer obviously has so much time, a few miles!) in the other guys shoes. Hopefully by serving on a board in the system. Even if it's just for investigative reasons, much credibility will be gained if accusations are made from within.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited October 22, 2003).]
10-22-2003, 09:23 PM
zracer22

Do those guys ever race, or are they just too busy being our advocate?
10-22-2003, 09:43 PM
Bill Miller

Jake,

What if this guy Riolo had been in an accident during the race? What if his motor had blown and caused other car(s) to crash?

And, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but "no harm, no foul" sounds like it's ok to break the rules as long as no one gets hurt, or no one complains about it.

I'm sure there's more to this (as well as the other) story, and it certainly leaves a lot of unanswered questions (at least w/ me). I want to know why (how?) the tech inspector issued a tech sticker for a Prod race to a car w/ an IT logbook. I also imagine that there was at least a couple of conversations w/ the stewards. Was it announced at the driver's meeting? There's certainly more culpability here than just the CB and BoD members that were there.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
10-22-2003, 09:54 PM
lateapex911

Bill,

Good points, and I will give you my understanding of the event. Don't flambe' me as it is just my understanding, and I could be slightly off base.

Many regions don't see the car at tech these days. Often you just show your helmet sticker, and your open logbook, and they hand you the sticker. I am not sure what policy is on that issue, but perhaps that would explain the tech sticker.

I also understand that the EP field knew about it, and there were no objections.

Big picture here, but it wasn't the first time in racing that a guy ran a big engine! At least he was up front about it, and an easy protest target! I do agree that I don't see the point of the event, as it was in his best interest to sandbag, makingit the ultimate conflict of interest.

My overall point about "the book" is that if you are going to make accusations, you are far better to be succinct, to the point, choose a few good examples, back them up with names, times, dates, all the facts, and stand on that. Piling on stupid non-issues such as this damages the overall case.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited October 22, 2003).]
10-22-2003, 10:29 PM
apr67

Jake.

If any member of the Comp board, or BOD, (or both) allowed, or worse yet, encouraged a driver to compete in direct violation of our clubs rules, then they should resign.

We must all follow the rules, and do have any offical suggest otherwise is grounds in my mind for immedate seperation. What would happen if I just decided to enter my ITC Wombat in a EP race? Or GT race?

If this is the depth of the perversion of the SCCA's rules shown by the document, then I feel something big must be done. IF it is a single isolated incident, then something small must be done.

Alan
10-22-2003, 11:14 PM
Joe Harlan

Quote:

If this is the depth of the perversion of the SCCA's rules shown by the document, then I feel something big must be done. IF it is a single isolated incident, then something small must be done.

While I feel there maybe something to these items I feel that writer of the book has an agenda of their own in documenting each and every item. I would tend to think this was written by an ex-member of the comp-bod or and ad-hoc and or both.
As far as a full time job "got one" and race 9 races this year and plus engineered a car for 5 nationals and the Runoffs. I feel that some of this stuff is important enough to pay attention to.

Joe Harlan
#175515
10-22-2003, 11:38 PM
pgipson

All in all it reads like someone that figures the easiest way to get on the CB is to get all the current members off. It's this kind of junk that causes good people to not want to get involved in the operation of the regions and the club. So much of this sort of innuendo and anonymous attacks seems to be the result of a few SM racers that didn't get what they wanted (National class). We had a race this weekend in AZ region and we had 2 SM's show up. One raced topless, which seems to be against most of the current rules. I guess we screwed up since a former chair of the BoD ran race control and should have made sure he was excluded. All the SM racers talk about their big numbers, but only 25 or so showed up at Heartland Park for the Pro series championship

That being said, the thing about the 280Z in EP, I don't think the GCR gives the CB or the BoD authority over the conduct of events. That belongs to the Stewards of the Meet. I remember years ago in SE Div we had two brothers that consistently ran (in SARRC regionals) an ITA prepped RX3 in GT3. Used the Nikki carb with a modified cage. Nobody cared that the car wasn't really legal. They were having fun and were safe to race with.
10-23-2003, 12:46 AM
Joe Craven

Good points perhaps, but the GCR doesn't say that a car has to be legal to race. If it isn't legal, it'll lose it's points if protested. I recall that the main requirements to race is that the driver is licensed (passes physical and approved), and that the vehicle he races has passed all technical safety inspections. It needs proper cages, belts, fire bottle, etc. etc. etc. If someone meets those requirements, he can register his car in a class where he meets the requirements - (mostly safety related)

#37 ITB SFR
10-23-2003, 06:43 AM
Bill Miller

I thought there were still a couple of Regions (one?) that allowed the SM's to run topless. And, I thought they were somewhere in the Southwest. The 'national' rules don't go into effect until next year.

Jake,

I understand about the tech sticker, and how that could have slipped through the cracks. I know that a lot of times they just look at the log book and see if there is an annual in it, and if there are any notes in it recently.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608
10-23-2003, 07:36 AM
Banzai240

Well... if you enjoyed the first bit of news (you sick puppies!! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/tongue.gif ) then you're going to really enjoy this:

http://65.169.188.92/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cg...ic;f=1;t=000034

It just keeps getting deeper, and deeper, and deeper....

------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
http://home.comcast.net/~djjordan/We...1203_thumb.jpg
10-23-2003, 08:31 AM
planet6racing

All of this has been posted by one Mr. Matt Weisberg (or, at least that screen name) aka Mattberg here. So, take it for what it is worth...

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com
10-23-2003, 08:51 AM
oanglade

Quote:

Originally posted by pgipson:
So much of this sort of innuendo and anonymous attacks seems to be the result of a few SM racers that didn't get what they wanted (National class).

So, you mention innuendo and anonymous attacks directly before you say "seems to be the result of a few SM racers that didn't get what they wanted..."

First of all, if you have any proof that those "16 stories" or whatever came from an SM racer, why don't you just say so? If this is just your opinion, then you might want to clarify it as such, because saying "seems to be" implies that you have some basis for saying so other than you just feel like it is so.

Second, I don't know of any SM racer that asked for the class to be a National class from day 1. What the SM racers want is that the class is not labeled as "regional forever" like IT and that it is allowed to follow the process to become a National class, if the numbers are there and the criteria is met.

As for those 16 stories, anything written and sent anonymously like that certainly has much less credibility, but at the same time, in this era of the internet, rumors and urban legends can quickly turn into accepted reality.

Some of it might be true and some might not be true, but somehow it just seems like half the story.

I think the author should have stamped his/her name on it and sent it to Steve Johnson.

As for "All the SM racers talk about their big numbers, but only 25 or so showed up at Heartland Park for the Pro series championship", well that was the last race of the Pro series, which means that on Saturday, only those invited could race. The Sunday race was a regional, but would you tow from GA or FL or from TX or from AZ or from NY for a single regional race?

Rocky mountain allows topless Spec Miatas, for one. I think SoPac div. also.

By the way, quite a few classes at the Runoffs had less than 25 cars.

--
Ony Anglade

[This message has been edited by oanglade (edited October 23, 2003).]
10-23-2003, 09:15 AM
apr67

Quote:

Originally posted by pgipson:
So much of this sort of innuendo and anonymous attacks seems to be the result of a few SM racers that didn't get what they wanted (National class). We had a race this weekend in AZ region and we had 2 SM's show up. One raced topless, which seems to be against most of the current rules. I guess we screwed up since a former chair of the BoD ran race control and should have made sure he was excluded. All the SM racers talk about their big numbers, but only 25 or so showed up at Heartland Park for the Pro series championship

And how many other classes had 25 cars? Thats pretty good for a track that is in the middle of no where, a high entry fee, and a requirement to run a weird tire (hankook). Also that is a pro class, and due to the rules some regional cars are not legal.

Quote:

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\"> That being said, the thing about the 280Z in EP, I don't think the GCR gives the CB or the BoD authority over the conduct of events. That belongs to the Stewards of the Meet. I remember years ago in SE Div we had two brothers that consistently ran (in SARRC regionals) an ITA prepped RX3 in GT3. Used the Nikki carb with a modified cage. Nobody cared that the car wasn't really legal. They were having fun and were safe to race with.</font>

I'm sorry, some how I thought it was important for the people who run our club and make our rules to follow those same rules. IF anyone of those people suggested 'officially' that someone should cheat by entering a car that was not legal for the class, that is an issue that I belive bears investigation.

Alan