Tire Life

Trying to figure out a fairly accurate budget to decide if I can afford to go racing again. Since tires are probably the biggest expense, figuring tire life accurately is critical to accurate budgeting. Here is the question.

How many heat cycles are you getting before you start to lose significant time. I'm looking for emperical data here so please provide:

tire brand, size and type of car.

With large enough sample, this should be very useful information in helping predict and control the budget.

Thanks!

I don't want to appear overly negative (after all nobody on this board every wants to be negative) but there are a lot more variables to take into consideration. To name a few

driving style, track surface, track configuration, track temperature, ambient temperature, level of competitiveness, suspension setup and optimization, storage methods, etc.

The list gets pretty long and all of these factors can have a huge impact on tire life. There are people here running similar cars and setups with the same tires and one guy can get 8 or more weekends out of a set with supposedly no performance fall off while the other guy is losing two seconds after one weekend.

Tires are definitely a "your mileage may vary" scenario. If your budget is tight you might consider do you want to win or have some close, fun races, even if it's only for tenth place. If that's okay, most people say a set of Toyos are very consistent, pretty tough and may not be the fastest but probably the most economical choice.

Having said all that I'll answer your question with:

Kumho V710 205/50R15 on a 2450 lb FWD Dodge Charger with ~ 115 hp so far, greater than 8 heat cycles but I haven't seen a real fall off yet.

Kumho Ectsa, shaved on same car, same size, 11 cycles before a significant drop.

Good luck.

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~Matt Rowe
ITA Shelby Charger
MARRS #96

With proper heat cycling and in current practice I can get 3 weekends or 9-10 sessions out of a set of hoosiers on my ITS 240z. But thats with 3 sets of already heat cycled tires, and absolutely no slip ups, flat spotting and the car properly dialed-in. I was able to race a season on 2 sets of tires, the 3 set still good for a few practice sessions the next year. That was a good year. Never won the ARRC but it showed me what a difference setup and experience can make.

I went thru 3 sets of brand new hoosiers at an enduro/pro-it in one weekend due to offs, flat spots, toe problems, tire pressure mistakes, suspension problems (gland nut on struts kept backing out), driver inexperience, a new track and no heat cycling on any of the tires. That was an expensive weekend.

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom Donnelly (edited March 03, 2005).]

If tires are your biggest expense, you haven't filter'd in entry costs.

If your just looking to be out there having fun, and not racing for track records and wins, go with the Toyo. Shaved to 4/32's will last 5-6 weekends at least. This is on an ITB VW GTI. 205-55-14size. The Hoosier's and the new Kumho's are a bit "faster" as far as performance as well as wear, but you get what you pay for.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

Ditto on the Toyos. The shot below is of a tire that started life as a fully treaded RA-1 on my SSC-then-ITB-Golf.

http://it2.evaluand.com/gti/images/205a.jpg

Something like 9 hours of track time - maybe 15 heat cycles - and it just got faster and faster. Probably lasted another 3 hours before going to the cord.

On the other hand, one of the driving crew flatspotted a new shaved Toyo during our test day before the VIR 13 Hours and it was pretty much junk at that point.

K

I agree with Kirk. The Toyo's are the best bang for the buck. they are very forgiving and dont flat spot as easily as others. And they make a decent rain tire when new. Since the Toyo is "uni-directional", in between race weekends I flip the tires on the rims so that they will have even wear right down to the belts (I have a tire machine).

It's my understanding that the only reason they are marked left and right is for the water dispersing function of the blocks. I completely ignore the arrows once they are are worn - or shaved.

K

ditto...

I have found the toyos can be made just as fast as the hoosiers. I still like the hoosiers over the toyos, but budget wise I must say the toyo is a good tire for the money. Set up will be key. I get 3 enduros out of a set of toyos and one enduro out of a set of hoosiers.

Kurt IT7 #00 @ #59

I run Hoosiers on my ITS 240Z. I follow Hoosier's recommendations on breaking tires in whenever possible. My fastest lap ever at my home track (Summit Point) was on a set with two full race weekends and a full test day on them. I am not able to sense any significant drop off in traction due to repeated heat cycles until they are down to the cords.