Pull-up harness question

This is a new car, and I'm trying to figure out the best harness arangement.

I have a Kirkey Road Race Intermediate seat and Simpson Camlock pull-up belts. The seat is about two inches from the package shelf wall.

When I test fit the belts, it appears that the buckles are right at the holes in the seat. The buckle tabs are pressing on the top side of the hole in the seat. When I try to tighten the lap belts, the slight preasure on the buckle tabs prevents the belts from tighenting.

I think that I can enlarge the holes in the seat by about 1/2-3/4" and the buckle tabs will no longer be pressed by the seat. But I'm hesitant to cut into a brand new $300 seat ...

Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Is it a bad idea to cut the seat? With pull-up belts, where should the buckle be, inside the seat, outside the seat, or right in the holes?

When I manually make sure that the tabs on the buckles stay outside the seat, I can really get the belts nice and tight.

Thoughts? Also, with all due respect, I'd like to hear from experience, not theory.

Thanks!
-Kyle

Personally, I've never had ANY luck being able to adjust pull-up belts in my car. The couple of times I've ordered them, installed them (from a couple of different manufacturers), then tried to adjust them, I couldn't get the belts to move AT ALL. Maybe the angle was just not right, I don't know. I've always sent them back and gotten the pull down style with a cam lock. I pre adjust them, then "suck in my gut" to allow me to snap everything together. It can be done with the latch system (have used it as well), but your hands can get a little full. One pull-up set I tried had the seat interference you mentioned, but because I have a composite seat, I wasn't going to consider cutting it. In the end, if I knew I needed a little help getting ready with no one around, I would talk to someone on the grid and ask them to stop by to lend a hand. I made sure I got ready a little early in that instance.

I'll second what John said.

The easiest way I have found is to set the lap belt and forget it. Make sure it is nice and tight the first time, then just suck in your gut and quick click it together (camlock). After that, everything is a breeze.

I had the same problem with the seat being in the way and finally just gave up. No belt I tried (3 different manufacturers, both pull up and pull down) made much difference.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

And I thought that it was just me. Proper alignment seems to be the key with lap belts. If the angle is wrong(too severe from the rear) no type of adjuster seems to work.
I do prefer pull-ups but have found that you should get the lap belt adjusted for you and then try to never adjust or change it again(unless you lose or gain mass amounts of weight). You will still need to "tighten" the belts periodically but at least you will not be thrashing away with the belts at the "one and go"signal.
I set up the SM to have the adjuster inside the seat even though you can get a rub or raspberry on your thigh with that setup. Usually there is enough slack in the belts to move the adjuster around to your preference. Do be careful and dont think that the interference of the adjuster with the seat will hold you in the event of an impact. Dale E learned that lesson.

Of course the adjust and never touch approach doesn't work real well for enduros with multiple drivers....

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-Scott Gallimore
-ITC #88 Pulsar

I too have had similar issues with a pull-up style. Some belt manufacturers (such as Crow) have been willing to sew in the adjuster a certain distance from the bolt in point so that you don't have this issue.

MAKE CERTAIN that the adjuster is nowhere near the cutout in the seat. If the adjuster is just below/in the cutout in the seat the loosening tab thing can get hung up on the seat and cause the belt to loosen during an impact.

I discovered this while sitting in a students car getting ready to enter the track. I couldn't get the lap belts tight enough for my peace of mind. I looked down to figure out why everytime I pulled them tight they'd loosen up. The adjuster was hung up in the hole. http://Forum.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif

Ditto on the 'pull-up' belt issues. The only time they're a benefit is in a formula car or sports-racer, where you don't have a seat but are actually sitting in the tub. Then you don't have any issues with the lock tabs or the adjusters.

In a car with a 'seat', pull-ups suck.

[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited May 25, 2004).]