Car won't start after it warms up.

While I think I know how to fix, I would other people's opinnion.

At my last event, sitting on grid with the car running for about 5 minutes, they decided to take a course worker break. Then at the 5 minute warning, my car won't fire. It turns over just fine but it doesn't make even an attempt to fire. I get pushed back to the pits and after a few mintues, the car fires again. I go and get on track and not even a quarter of a lap, the car shuts off and refires after a minute or two.

I think it is the ignition coil; original on a 89 CRX SI with 122k miles. Now, I can get a new ignition coil and replace it, or should I replace the entire distributor (exchange). Or, am I replacing the wrong part. Again, it's a 89 CRX SI. Thanks!

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Richy Gonzalez
Gonzalez Brothers Racing
#21 ITA CRX

Having experienced this problem with my 89 Si, and 96 Civic I would look at the ignitor and if it has one-the Idle Air Control Valve. You may well want to do a distributor swap, but my dealer tech tells me that unless the ignitor was replaced with the current version-this is a likely cause of your problem. Comparison-my Civic would not always restart when hot,and it was the ICAV in that case. It may also be the Main relay-which my CRX suffered from recently-heat is the enemy here and they are prone to failure at intervals of 6-10 years so it seems. Just my 2 cents-hope it helps you.

[This message has been edited by jc836 (edited August 30, 2002).]

Richey-
I have an 89 crx si that I run in ita. I am no. 21 in the cen div (ohio) area.
I have had the same problem before. I replaced the coil and igniter and that didn't do it.
I found that the main fuel relay, (driver's side, left kick panel, under dash) black box with 8 or so blades, will cause this condition as well.
If you locate the box, pull it out of the car, and pry the two prongs apart so that you can get the electronic soldering points exposed. Take a loop, or magnifying glass, and examine the soldering points closely.
You may find, that, there is two broken solder points. one at 9 o'clock and the other at 3. Anyhow they are directly across from each other. x<-----------and---------->x
you will see a small circle of broken contact at these two positions, but only under a magnifying glass, they are very small.
If you find these are "broken" then that is your hot-no-start-condition. The main fuel relay is a hot box. it expands when hot, then no connnection to refire. If you are very steady with a soldering gun or pencil, resolder the two broken "posts or spots" and your car will start.
Of course, this is only if the distrib, stuff hasn't fixed the problem first.
The way I found this problem was that my relay is partially exposed to my cage and dash trimming. when my car wouldn't start one time, i got pissed and kicked the area where the relay was and the car fired. I shut the car off and kicked it again and it worked twice, so I dug deeper till I found the relay in the factory service manual.... and the rest is history...
If you think this fuel relay is the problem, WHILE YOUR CRANKING THE IGNITION,(have the relay hanging down while still connected to the harness), have some one lightly bang on it with a screwdriver handle. If the car fires then you know your relay needs resoldered.
Hope this helps you out. It is not worth paying the local dealer for a new part, when a 10 minute repair is all that is needed.
****if you do solder, DO NOT hit any two posts at the same time. It will ruin it.****
Good Luck
chris stiffler
ITA #21 (Cen Div)
Honda/Acura race car tuner, constructor.
Medina, Ohio

Ritchie, I can't tell you where to look specifically but I can tell you how the problem would be diagnosed at the shop I worked at previously.
Start with the fundamental equation running = air + fuel + ignition. Replicate the conditions, check to see if you have the fundamentals.
If you have the fundamentals diagnose further to find why they are not arriving at the proper time to effect running.

Everyone,
I really appreciate all of the suggestions. While I haven't pin pointed the exact cause of the problem, I'll look at all of the different things listed.

jc836,
Since my brain is not working this Tuesday morning, what is the ICAV again?

HiRcc#21,
I've always run #21 autocrossing but have failed to get that number at any of the entered club events. I hope to get 21 as my permanent number next year down here in the SeDiv.

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Richy Gonzalez
Gonzalez Brothers Racing
#21 ITA CRX

Ritchie...
Are you running a aftermarket fuel pressure regulator?
I have had the same problems, just had to keep adjusting the pressure until it would fire up after warming up!
Good Luck!
Dan Beeson
beesondesigns.com

Check the master cut off switch! I've had more than my share of these cause all kinds of wierd problems including the one you describe. A set of jumper wires kept in the glove box is a quick check of this problem on the grid.Good luck

ICAV=IACV or Idle Air Control Valve. This may not apply to CRX's, but the point is that there will be parts related that can fail with time (vacuum hose) that still look good. MY 96 Civic HB had the valve fail and we thought it was the Main Relay first. The CRX was definitely the relay and not the Ignitor. Be sure that there is no whitish stuff inside the distributor as that is a sign of bearing failure.

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'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA
'96 Civic HB Just cruising daily
'99 Prelude=a sweet song in motion

Dan,
I'm not running an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. But I'm thinking of putting a guage on the fuel filter.

1stGenBoy,
I really hope is not my Master Cutoff switch. I paid a lot of money to have it installed. Different story to tell some other time.

jc836,
Now that you mention vacuum lines, after I put the head back on, I remember one of my vacuum lines breaking. It's the one on top of the throtle body and don't remember what it went too. So I just cap'ed it. Could this be a problem? Do you know where it goes to? Any pics anyone?

Again, you guys are the greatest in helping people out. Thanks again!

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Richy Gonzalez
Gonzalez Brothers Racing
#21 ITA CRX

[This message has been edited by Richy Gonzalez (edited September 10, 2002).]

This is a very common problem in street CRX's and Civic's. As mentioned before check the main realy in the drivers kick panel/dash area. It has been the cause of a lot of Honda's not starting. Not that easy to get to if the interior is still fully intact but in a race car with minimal interior it might not be that bad.

[This message has been edited by solo2crx (edited September 10, 2002).]

HiRcc#21/solo2crx
Well, I just got the relay out of the car. Man what a pain in the _ss. I just wanted to make sure it's the relay you guys are talking about. The relay has a black rectangular case which says

MITSUBA
RELAY ASS'Y.MAIN
RZ-0063
JAPA
12V

Is this the one?

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Richy Gonzalez
Gonzalez Brothers Racing
#21 ITA CRX

Richy:

Indeed you hold the part. Proceed to your local Honda dealer and give them about $50. If you are a member of the Honda-Acura Club (see their website) they might discount it for you. Now to the vacuum lines: There are 2 of them on the top of the throttle body where the air tube connects. The one toward the front of the car (small diameter rubber) goes to the MAP sensor bolted behind the motor on the firewall; the second one connects to the Charcoal canister (Page 11-17 HELM). There are 3 more lines and they are on the Plenum itself-one loops from a large connection point next to the throttle body back to the opposite end to the dashpot thing. The next one goes from the Plenum to an intake runner while the last one goes from a port to a pressure regulator.
Hope this helps you.


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'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA
'96 Civic HB Just cruising daily
'99 Prelude=a sweet song in motion

I would have to concure. It's probably the main relay. They work great when cold, but tend to act up when it gets hot. Usually the higher milage units. Also, I would install a new igniter. They will usually die too.

Everyone,
Thanks again for all the help. I will replacing both parts. As the distributor, I was thinking of only replacing my ignitor but after I opened the thing up, it looks like it's definately has some milage/age on it. I'm probably going to do the autozone swap since they seem to be the cheapest I've found.

Again, thanks everyone. Now, off in rebuilding my bottom end http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif

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Richy Gonzalez
Gonzalez Brothers Racing
#21 ITA CRX