Pad recommendations for Integra

I've always been a big believer in Hawk Blues but lately I am not happy with the performance of these pads on my car. When i put a fresh set on I'm excited for the first few laps...pedal is stiff, bite is awesome, confidence high...but after about lap 4 or 5 the pedal softens up considerably and my confidence goes down. She still stops fine but the weak pedal feel is disconcerting. And once the pad gets to about halfway it's pretty much ready for the trash.

Has anyone else experienced this same thing? I would like to hear from some others as to what pads they're running and their experiences with them.

The guy i bought the car from used Raysbestos ST(something) pads, but at $250 a set they're a bit rich for my blood.

Suggestions anyone?

That doesn't sound like a pad issue to me. Fluid? Master Cylinder?

Integras are notorious for having a longer pedal feel once the pads gets worn over half way. Is the car still stopping ok, but it needs more pedal?

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Billiel

Integras are notorious for having a longer pedal feel once the pads gets worn over half way. Is the car still stopping ok, but it needs more pedal?

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Ive delt with this before on my Civic. But it ended up being the type of brake fluid I was using. Switched to RBF600 and have never had an issue since.

Also, a lot has to do with the heat transfer in the brake pad itself. When pads are new, the heat has enough pad material to dissipate thru. When the pads get older than 50% life, its harder for the heat to dissipate causing a mushy pedal feel.

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Originally Posted by ITA_honda

Ive delt with this before on my Civic. But it ended up being the type of brake fluid I was using. Switched to RBF600 and have never had an issue since.

Also, a lot has to do with the heat transfer in the brake pad itself. When pads are new, the heat has enough pad material to dissipate thru. When the pads get older than 50% life, its harder for the heat to dissipate causing a mushy pedal feel.

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I am dealing with some pedal travel issues on my CRX Si. So far master cylinder, master clyinder - booster adjustment, and new brake pads have helped but still feels a little soft. I am using ATE Super Blue at the moment. Will have to try 600 and see if it feels different.

Thanks Greg! :) And see ya at Mid O this weekend sounds like!

-Sean

Sean, do you know when the 5:01 guys are arriving and where y'all will paddock? I'm hoping to be near the bathroom if that's an option for us. Or do they put port-a-john's out in the wilderness?

To help totally hijack this thread for a moment; I am planning on being there around 1-2 PM. The rest of the guys will be there around 3. Not sure where we will be paddocked. I have been assigned Chief of claming trailer space since I will be there first.

-Sean

I was using Blue's myself and I agree to a point, modulation was there yet you had to be very careful with the pedal. I switched to DTC-60's and even with half worn rotors, I have good modulation and wear. FYI, I have always used Motul RBF600 - it's the defacto standard in my book for Honda/Acuras. For the best braking, use new rotors and junk them once they hit the halfway mark, fresh fluid every two races and stock rear rotors/pads.

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Originally Posted by darthmonkeyIT

To help totally hijack this thread for a moment; I am planning on being there around 1-2 PM. The rest of the guys will be there around 3. Not sure where we will be paddocked. I have been assigned Chief of claming trailer space since I will be there first.

-Sean

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<Hijack>
Thursday or Friday?
</Hijack>

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Originally Posted by darthmonkeyIT
To help totally hijack this thread for a moment; I am planning on being there around 1-2 PM. The rest of the guys will be there around 3. Not sure where we will be paddocked. I have been assigned Chief of claming trailer space since I will be there first.

-Sean

<Hijack>
Thursday or Friday?
</Hijack>

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We will be coming down Friday.

FYI to all SCCA regional competitors:
There will be a section roped off for us. Ask at registration. However I think it will be marked SCCA. This is the only place you may paddock.

Sean - I will not be racing. I have to work both Friday and Saturday but I may be down Sunday to hang out.

It's the paddock section closest to the showers.

Hawk Blues were great pads ten years ago. I personally now use Cobalt XR2's or XR1's. Last longer, wear better, easier on rotors, dust less, modulate better, and stop shorter. As for brake fluid, I switched to Castrol SRF last year as I got tired of messing with stuff I couldn't always rely on, no matter what the track. I use this combo on both my ITA & FP Integra's. A little ducting helps too, but really isn't supper necessary unless at a place like Road America or Blackhawk. Other than that, you always have to keep in mind that you race a Honda, so the brakes are pretty much always going to feel like mushy crap, to some degree. On my FP car I was able to remove the stock brake booster, and that made a HUGE difference on making the pedal feel better. But even then, I still get rediculous pad knock-back, which I think is the #1 problem with Honda brakes. If you're ever behind me, you'll see the brake lights flickering like crazy as I'm constantly pumping with my left foot.

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Originally Posted by mossaidis

I was using Blue's myself and I agree to a point, modulation was there yet you had to be very careful with the pedal. I switched to DTC-60's and even with half worn rotors, I have good modulation and wear. FYI, I have always used Motul RBF600 - it's the defacto standard in my book for Honda/Acuras. For the best braking, use new rotors and junk them once they hit the halfway mark, fresh fluid every two races and stock rear rotors/pads.

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Why do you say replace the rotors at 50% ??
I just dropped mine off at the machine shop

Davegt27

To the original poster, if you liked the Blues, you'll love the DTC-60's. Much better feel and consistency. I think a little less aggressive initial bite, but better stopping power over the whole braking event. With the Blues, the rotors were junk when the pads were used up. With the DTC'60's I can double stint rotors.

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Originally Posted by darthmonkeyIT

I am dealing with some pedal travel issues on my CRX Si. So far master cylinder, master clyinder - booster adjustment, and new brake pads have helped but still feels a little soft. I am using ATE Super Blue at the moment. Will have to try 600 and see if it feels different.

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Did you ever get to try a Honda OEM master cylinder? Did that just help but not solve the problem?

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Originally Posted by ITA_honda

Also, a lot has to do with the heat transfer in the brake pad itself. When pads are new, the heat has enough pad material to dissipate thru. When the pads get older than 50% life, its harder for the heat to dissipate causing a mushy pedal feel.

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I experience this and also believe it is a heat capacity issue. I can go lower than 50%, probably to 25% or a little less. But it is a pretty abrupt change if I let it go to low.

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Originally Posted by mc-integra111

Did you ever get to try a Honda OEM master cylinder? Did that just help but not solve the problem?

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Yes I did. It helped but the brake pedal and for that matter the braking force isn't there. There is a mechanical problem in the system.

I am going to tear the system apart over the winter and replace a few things. Primarily in the routing.

My current theory is the Teflon stainless steel hoses are at end of life. The pedal will build up pressure just fine with the car off but once the booster kicks the pedal feels awful and my brake zone travel is enormous. One or more of the Teflon lines may have been damage or weakened from heat/age and s bulging under higher pressure loads (IE booster engaged). Going to replace those with a proper kit since the current lines were generic length purchased and are to long.

Also have a "T" joint at my back brake lines that we managed to bleed some air out of. Will be replacing that with a cross and adding a bleeder screw to make this easier to bleed.

Trapped a air bubble as well in my brake bias. Tilton arm adjustable that is a PITA to bleed. Will be changing to a screw type to make it easier to bleed.

May also investigate the prop valve since I do not know its current condition along with the slop in the front calipers which towards the end of the season was getting to be noticeable excessive.

If the brakes are still crap after all of that I am going to buy a anchor with a retractable winch to throw out of the car at braking zones. :023:

-Sean

Thanks all for your input. I will give the DTC-60s a try and see how those feel. I used to use those on my ITA Neon and recall they were a better overall pad than the Blues.

Have heard from many Teg drivers that there's no getting away from the soft pedal feel. This is unfortunate, but something I'll just have to get used to. Nothing lots of seat time won't fix i suppose :)