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Anybody heard of this system? They make a plug and play, with harness!, for my newly acquired FI set up. Would save me a lot of time and trouble.
I'm brand new to EMS systems. If anybody has any experience with them, are they as tuneable as a Megasquirt or Motec?
Yes, and they come in two iterations, fuel only and fuel and spark. I have a bit of experience with the fuel only system which is a pretty fair control. One of my cars came with the system on it and I am not certain whether I will use it or Chris Ludwig's system. By the way, Chris is also a Haltec dealer.
Make sure that plug and play harness comes with a base program for your car. If not is is not much better than starting from scratch. You have no idea what you do not know until you start messing with stand alone systems. Don't ask how I know. :D
It does come with base maps for the Rover V8, that and the harness are why I am getting it.
I no NOTHING about these damn things.......
:024: Just make sure there's a place to get the vacuum line in! :dead_horse:
This is the triple vacuum line model!
Aussie based too. Throw the EMS on the barbie!
Jeff,
Fa-get-about the vacume line, mount the sensor in the manifold. The EGR control port might be a good location.
Since us "po" folks is now able to venture into the world of tuneable electronic EMS one thing you will definitely require, IMO, will be a a wide band AFR meter.
It's true you can go to a dyno shop and spend hours on the dyno getting the AFR/timing maps correct FOR THAT DAY ON THAT DYNO.
But weeks later when you go to CMP/RA/Barber/VIR with rain, cold, heat, . . . the maps change and you NEED to know for that day/session how your maps look. Being able to assess what the maps are under DYNAMIC race conditions is extremely valuable.
Innovate has some good units that can log what's going on. Chris' unit for the RX7 logs to the PDA. After a session you simply review the log and can adjust AFR/timing in the appropriate cells that represent what ever ECU function you chose to track. Obviously, for racing purposes most likely you're interested in AFR over RPM and MAP or throttle position.
For me I'm really only interested in the range from 5,000 rpm up to 8,200 and MAP of pretty much zero (WOT). Since you have a base MAP that hopefully will allow the car to run you can immediately zero in on specific timing targets and AFR values in the operating range that applies to your car. A dyno can help you identify RANGES that yield the best output but only by on track dynamic fine tuning can you really get the full benefit of programmable ems.
My 2 cents, I'm just starting the process myself but it's already had beneficial overall operating results.
So I suppose you're going to be even harder to stay with out of corners now Huh?! Ok buddy, I'm going to "push" your brakes real hard next time we get together!!
Looking forward to getting together with you next year. I'm sort of tired of watching Huffmaster and Williams blow me off for dead. I'm sure we'll have some good tussles as in the past.
Travers
LOL...thanks Travers. Yes, the Haltech has dynamic fuel map modification capability. It looks like a good system.
I may as well say it here, but one of the real advantages of switching to the FI is I get to use the FI manifold, which is much, much better than the carb setup I am using. 3.5 Rover V8s make some big power with this EFI setup in England......going to be hard on those brakes.......you are right. We'll see.
Cameron actually uses the wideband O2 system we have in the Golf when he runs Pablo on the dyno, rather than their system, so we have some confidence that values are repeatable.
We've got the output from that unit (NGK Powerdex AFX) into our DL1 (like the PDA application described here) so we can look at on-track data. Our only adjustment is currently via the fuel pressure regulator but the concept is exactly what Travers describes.
K
With EFI one of the main advantages is that the ecm (spelled computer) will automatically make those various changes dictated by weather. Stock GM units measure OAT (outside air temp) MAP, temp, throttle position, engine rpm, and O2 level in the exhaust. With proper programing no additional changes are required for variable atmospheric conditions. That's the whole idea. The Haltach should be at least as good.
Chuck
Jeff, you have a PM.
Each and every system that runs in speed density mode (relies on the MAP sensor for engine load calculations) will require that the ECU be mapped for your particular engine. Doesn't matter who makes it, what start up map it comes with, how advanced it is, or how much it costs. Speed density requires that the ECU know the VE curve of the engine. It then uses manifold pressure (MAP) and RPM (among other sensors) to calculate fuel requirements. Some systems have an actual VE table. Others, like the Haltech, do not but the operating system is calculating the information in the back ground. Since VE will be different between each and every engine regardless of whether they roll off the assembly line side-by-side each engine will need to have it's ECU calibrated for itself and itself alone to ensure optimum operation. No way around that.
Systems that are MAF based can be generic from engine to engine since the MAF sensor is calculating the actual mass of air entering the engine (not interpolating it based on manifold pressure and RPM as in a speed density system) at any given moment and fuel is calculated according to this exact measurement. If VE is different between engines the MAF sensor sees this and the amount of fuel is corrected to maintain the desired mixture. Unfortunately, most systems of the aftermarket only operate in speed density mode.
Haltech and other higher end systems do have the option to run in MAF mode. The only downside in an Improved Touring situation is that calibration can be more time consuming. The aftermarket has not embraced MAF sensors in performance applications because they are generally viewed as a bottle neck to performance and can provide inconsistent results when the intake tract around them is altered or they are asked to flow much beyond the mass of air they are engineered to support from the factory. There are few shops that have much experience at all with performance tuning and MAF sensors. Those that do are centered around the GM and Ford V8 market.
And as Chuck pointed out most every system on the market has the ability to compensate for atmospheric conditions. The beauty of atmospheric compensation is that it is largely a mathematic constant. Meaning that it's not a feature that needs much tuning though most system have the ability to tweak the response to atmospheric change. In short this isn't a carburator and should not require the end user to pull the laptop out when a cloud rolls overhead. To the contrary one of EFI's main advantages is that it can provide optimum performance under widely varying atmospheric conditions.
With that said, a few words of advice to anyone considering a system of any kind...
1) There is no such thing as a plug-n-play map for a speed density system that can be guaranteed as optimum. You may get lucky and get very close but beware of anyone that says you can plug it in and go and expect it to be perfect. "Start up" or "base" maps are just that. To expand on that anything that changes the VE of the engine will require a corresponding change to the calibration. Since the engine doesn't know you changes VE you will be lean or rich of optimum when you make changes to the exhaust or intake that enhances or degrades airflow through the engine. After you have fitted your speed density system to your engine and calibrated it you will need to make tweaks to the calibration to see if that new exhaust really has netted more power. A rule of thumb is that if you make changes and the mixture leans out in any particular spot of the rev range then you have increased airflow there and there is potential for more power. The inverse is true. Further, optimum tune is fuel dependent. This gets off into a tangent on engine tuning but illustrates my point that it's almost impossible to have a generic optimum tune. Ignition timing requirements can vary depending on the fuel used while still producing very close power outputs.
2) To get the most out of any of these systems you need dyno time. The dyno is the only place that provides the controlled environment needed for optimization of fuel and even more so for spark. Plan this into your budget. With a good game plan a good tuner can calibrate an engine from scratch in 2-6 hours so it's not a totally bank breaking proposition.
3) Also, and it's been mentioned before, you'll need a wideband. Good dyno shops have them and it should be part of the package when using their dyno. It's better to have one of your own and have logging capability. Not all widebands are created equally and response time and consistency separates the good from the bad. Knock sensors, det cans, EGT logging, etc. all come in handy when trying to nail down the optimum tune as well but that's all for another thread. Wideband shootout....
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2007/06...otout/index.php
Thanks Chris. Just sent you an e-mail. Information is much appreciated.
Travers raves about your ECU by the way!
In other application we have ran with very much success the Hydra EMS which has many plug-n-play applications.
Since they are a small company and are located in the SF area they are very much willing to work with you and develop your own plug-n-play harness.
Check it out for yourself HYDRA EMS
Thanks,
Efrain