Koni vs Tokico

One major thing on my car to button up is suspension. I need to get rid of the tokicos and go with a set of Konis. Here is my question. When I ordered my ground control setup they set me up with 450 lb up front and 750 lb in the rear. After quite a bit of reading this seems kind of low. Is this low because Ground Control knew I had tokicos, or is this normal? When I go to the Konis should I bump this up? I know I need to order the koni perches, but I'm thinking I need to order a completly new ground control setup.

Popular opinion is that the Tokicos are good only up to about 400 pounds. So the rear rates are probably significantly over the capabilities of the Tokicos.

I am guessing that you will find that some guys are running much higher rear rates. A friend with a SPEED World Challenge Integr runs in the 7500 range. Of course, thats only 3700 or so actual rate, and their cages are WAY stiffer than ours, as they tie the front struts into the package.

IT Integras I know talk about the 900, 1200 and 1500 range. YMMV!

Out of the box Koni Sports are good to about 500lbs on the springs. If you want to go any higher, you need to have the shocks revalved to your specs...so yes, I bet they matched the springs to your shocks.

In order to do a good job testing, you will need a lot of sets of springs anyway. You may have a nice wet-setup there.

AB

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Originally posted by lateapex911@Jan 15 2006, 08:39 PM
Popular opinion is that the Tokicos are good only up to about 400 pounds. So the rear rates are probably significantly over the capabilities of the Tokicos.

I am guessing that you will find that some guys are running much higher rear rates. A friend with a SPEED World Challenge Integr runs in the 7500 range. Of course, thats only 3700 or so actual rate, and their cages are WAY stiffer than ours, as they tie the front struts into the package.

IT Integras I know talk about the 900, 1200 and 1500 range. YMMV!

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I'm currently helping with an Integra build which is what brought this up. This made me a little more interested in the theory than anything else. I plan on purchasing revalved Konis but it made me think about spring also. Originally I was just going to buy the revalved shocks and use everything else I had (shy of spring perches) and go from there. Now I'm thinking springs are in order also.

BTW... 3700 lb....... talk about rails.

Note that the top Integras are running some pretty serious shockage...ADS at a MINIMUM. I'm aware of one 'Teg driver running dampers priced at "kill".

Point being, before you start running serious spring rates, better investigate better dampers. - GA

You do not need spring rates that high on an ITC EF hatch - there just isn't enough weight to deal with and the car has a relatively short wheel base. You shouldn't need much more than about a 600f/900r set up, IMO. I think you could also run that with a standard valved Koni. Use the stock front sway bar (or none at all) and a 19mm or 22mm rear sway bar and you should be pretty good to go.


In my ITA Integra, I'm running.........let's just say "over 1000lbs" in the rear. But remember, we're talking about 500lbs more wieght in the car and a much longer wheel base.

See page 48 of the February 2006 issue of Racecar Engineering for a good article on this subject. Titled "Spring Theory", it does contain some math, but nothing overly complex and it is all optional.

BTW, I plead total ignorance of this topic. I poked around suspension design theory on a whim a while back and decided it was too easy to get wrong unless studied thoroughly. Kinda like flying an airplane.

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Originally posted by gsbaker@Jan 18 2006, 06:01 PM

...... Kinda like flying an airplane.

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C'mon Gregg....flying is easy! just ask Greg Amy....
It's landing that's tricky.

;)

(Actually, even the landing part isn't that bad; I solo'd in about 8 hours instruction time. It's learning all the G_D rules, regs, and navigation that takes all the time!)

A friend and I took the Jeppesen course when we were both 14. I couldn't afford flight lessons, but he got a job at a small airport and eventually got his hours. On his 16th birthday I drove him to the airport for his first solo, then I drove him to the DMV for his driver's license.

Our friends would cut class and go to the beach. We'd cut class and fly to the next state.

Ah, to be young and foolish. :)

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Originally posted by lateapex911@Jan 18 2006, 06:53 PM
C'mon Gregg....flying is easy! just ask Greg Amy....
It's landing that's tricky.

;)

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Uh, Jake......

Landing is the easiest part. It's only hard if you want to live or take off again. :)

I have custom konis and 450/650 on my Civic.
I defy someone to make a FWD car handle better. Everyone that drove it (and it was one slut of a car) got out with a big fat smile.

Konis
450/650
good bushings (I had Energy Poly with sphericals on the radius rods)
No front bar
22mm ST adjustable rear bar

Soup.

I agree on the KONI. The DA konis are the way to go. They work darn good on the swift. We have also put koni da's on steves new ita sentra.



Bobby Bitterman

Koni has been outstanding with customer support for us. We also arguably have the best handling Audi's in the country :rolleyes: wich has to be a result of our Shock/Strut choice... (If it isn't that then it must be our driving :unsure:

Ok real (true) feedback... The Koni's have worked well for us. We have had 1 ongoing problem with the rebound valving wearing out way to fast, but from what they say it is an isolated problem with our cars related to the side load on the struts. Koni has continued to try and help us develop the suspension to resolve the issue. As for the customer support... like I said they have been great to us.

Raymond