IT-level cars coming to a National near you? B Spec Race Cars

GREAT NEWS - The rules for "B-Spec" are to be released this winter.

http://hondaracinghpd.blogspot.com/2...ec-racers.html

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6J2M3nPrGo...Spec%2BPic.bmp

For those of you who missed the early peeks, this is basically IT versions of the current crop of "city cars" - the Honda Fit, Mazda 2, et al. This has huge potential, it seems. However...

CONTINUED SILLINESS - According to Jeff Dahnert, "We look forward to seeing these cars in National competition in 2012"

As good an idea as this might be, we do NOT need an additional National class. Get rid of SSC and SSB, and maybe it makes sense but good grief.

K

I think these are closer to SS than IT. Looks like the future of SSC to me.

If all seven manufacturers buy in this could be big.

No hard specs that can be found, but the article suggests that it will closer to SS than IT. Definitely interesting even more so if other manufacturers join the wagon... yet, I can't help but think Jeff is selling out again to the manufacturers with the "national" bit.... which is not exactly selling SCCA (here) lately.

(ok here we go!)

I agree with Kirk, wtf!?!!? another class. So all the money I spent on my IT car is down the toilet accordingly to SCCA - do I sound like a Prod guy or do I sound like a Prod guy uh? :)

Whatever works, just no more "bastard" classes that are not allowed to run Nationals when their numbers are greater than those that can. The club is for the membership first and foremost not the manufacturers.

Where can I buy one?

actually....every time I see a Honda Fit driving on the highway I think
"how cool would it be to have 30 of them trying to get through Big Bend
at the same time"

I think that would be a hoot as a new SS class!

I had a student with a Honda Fit that had put an Acura 2.?? motor in the car. We were going down the front straight at Lightning at 140mph, with no cage....

I was like Holy Sh*T! Next time you gotta keep it in 4th!

Unfortunately he blew to motor in spectacular fashion. Guys name was Lance.

Didn't they used to have a series like that called the Renault LeCar cup? Really amusing to see a bunch of top heavy cars rolling over in unison. And then there was the Rabbit/Bilstein Cup... Ahhh, the good old dayys.


Russ
Everything old is new again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dickita15

I think these are closer to SS than IT. Looks like the future of SSC to me.

If all seven manufacturers buy in this could be big.

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+1

a Mazda 2 and Fit were on display at PRI. no info, no attendant. looked roughly like grand-am ST spec, so maybe SCCA Touring? stripped interior etc...

I guess it's a neat idea. SS is surely dumber than hell - makes sense to extend the Touring rules to slower cars in place of continuing the SS model, particularly in the age of mandatory traction control and other nannies in the ECU.

This has so much more potential the the BS new classes that the SCCA keeps coming up with. Modern cars, relatively inexpensive level of prep, and factory support are very appealing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russ Myers

Didn't they used to have a series like that called the Renault LeCar cup? Really amusing to see a bunch of top heavy cars rolling over in unison. And then there was the Rabbit/Bilstein Cup... Ahhh, the good old dayys.

Russ
Everything old is new again.

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That's the point.

LeCars, Encores, Alliances, Rabbits, Sciroccos, and Golfs in the US; Renault R5s in Europe, Honda Civics in Canada, and on and on... All one-make series and all a good value for the racer because the manufacturer was willing to subsidize the entire field's racing expenses AND put them in reasonably attractive venues.

What makes this new iteration of the idea REALLY cool is the potential for multiple manufacturers to do the same thing, across sanctioning bodies. THAT'S a model that scales up. If the "outside homologation" idea sticks, that's a giant necessary-but-not-sufficient condition for success. If the decision makers can stay ahead of the some of the most likely pitfalls and avoid compromising the big, first principles, it's going to be huge.

However, none of that should trump the process by which classes gain National status.

K

I expect the "outside homologation" to be a hard pill for the SCCA to swallow.

After the way that our club has twisted and bent our National class status rules recently I personally would have no problem fast-tracking this class IF it really takes off.

If it takes off, it's a pretty fast track if we follow the rules. Or SCCA can be the tail and let the companies wag them.

My jury is out. I'm waiting to read the rules.
I DO think it's cool how Mazdaspeed and HPD are doing this jointly.

I guess the major difference here is that the manufacturers have chosen an anonymous adjudicator to rule and maintain competitive balance, rather than the sanctioning body. It will be interesting to see how the commercial pressures pan out.
In the past the pressure has been on the SCCA and the manufacturers lobbied for advantages and trunk kits and whatnot. Now, THEY have chosen the benevolent dictator, so they are sort of on their honor to allow the organization to balance things fairly. How well will that work? Honda and Mazda are the ones who did the selecting. Will others get a fair shake?

Interesting, but I'm taking a wait and see approach. I think we'll need to see significant manufacturer support in the form of cheap parts kits, bodies in white etc for this to be the true 'grassroots" effort they claim it to be. Otherwise, it's SS racing, and a build will easily top $30K for cars that will run SSC or so laptimes. At that cost/performance ratio, several other National classes beckon, and some regional ones too.

Now, I CAN see this as a fun support race series for Rolex or ALMS, etc.. Tall bodies, big holes in the wind, should result in close racing and lead change possibilties every lap, which can be entertaining.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knestis

However, none of that should trump the process by which classes gain National status.

K

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And I doubt it will. I think if this works it will probably be the future of SSC. If I am not mistaken just about everything currently in C is going to age out in the next couple of years anyway. In my mind SS and Touring are a little different than most club racing classes in that they have often been driven by manufacturer interest. Having this interest can be an advantage to those that race there but every coin has two sides and if the interests of the manufacturers change classes can get realigned in order to serve the changing market. As a result the classes are not as stable and the racers investment in the class is more at risk than more traditional club racing classes. I would think that most who buy into SS would understand this.

If SSC - as it's currently composed - is in hospice, that's great. Let it morph naturally.

...and have some stand-alone "pro" races, or east-west championships, to support some higher profile events. It will require that the manufacturers are willing to subsidize the deal, to be really successful, but I *think* they probably get it, how potentially interesting this could be to a generation of drivers redefining what "performance" is.

K

Look at the new HP Toyota Yaris in Sportscar....Nice to see some new blood in what may be a drivetrain with some longevity(like the Miata) and therefore more cost efffective for the racer.
Hell...run a class with the Fit, Yaris, Mazda 2,etc in it like the old showroom stock. Obviously, the reason so many are in SM,SSM,ITA in miatas is the fact that with 100000mi plus on the crate engine, they still run great.

Mazda says that it is in the hands of the SCCA and NASA. "Should have some specs out" soon. I will have one but the Fiesta is the best so far.
MM

add the new Ford Fiesta, Chevy Aveo, etc.

Let the current SSC cars expire and run these in SSC. The manufacturers will only reconise the other Bspec cars for pay out . The current c cars will just fade away in to the IT rules. Face it , any SSC car that is 10 yrs old should be in IT anyway. I bet that they have gotten faster and faster over the 10 yrs.
To keep it close, the engine/ECU. will need to be sealed.
We dont want the engine thing to go the way of SM. Total BS when a fresh crate engine is midpack or worse.
I wi have one as soon as the rules are solid, if the powerpackage is sealed. MM

http://hondaracinghpd.blogspot.com/2...ec-racers.html
This could be as big as the "Renault Cup" and almost as good to watch. IMHO. MM
Sorry for the title move. MM A search will find it here a little better.