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fuel sample port on a VW
I posted this hear because my question is specific to our cars (VWs). The latest FasTrack says that if we have a factory fuel pressure test port, we don't need an additional fuel sample port. The way I read the Bentley for A1 cars, it says to disconnect the fuel line from the fuel distributor and attach the fuel pressure test gauge inline between the line and the fuel distributor.
To me, this constitutes a 'factory' pressure test port. Anybody have any thoughts on this????
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
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In my opinoin,
the term test port would mean an opening that is normally plugged except when a test needs to be preformed. I would think this situation is exactly what they are trying to avoid (disconecting a fuel line to take the sample) BSI has a slick little number for a test port for around $20. I ordered 1 and it takes about 30 seconds to install.
Mark
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Mark,
But the other wording in FasTrack is that if you have access to factory fuel pressure test equipment, regardless if there is a 'test port' or not, you don't need a seperate sample port. Where does the BSI setup go?
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
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Bill, I can forsee the possibility of specifying the CIS Fuel Pressure gauge connection as a fuel sample port; however, I would not want to use such an arrangement as a fuel sample port due to the high residual fuel pressure maintained by the CIS system for several hours.
When setting the Control Pressure and System Pressure on the HP Wabbit, I noticed the residual pressure was about 30 psi to 40 psi for over an hour after turning off the CIS fuel pump. Even after two hours, the fuel pressure was still between 20 psi and 25 psi. Consequently any interruption or disconnection of the fuel line going to the Control Pressure Regulator has the potential of spraying fuel in the engine compartment.
With the fuel cell arrangement in the Wabbit, I installed a "T" aeroquip fitting in the return line (virtually no pressure) from the aluminum holding tank to the fuel cell. This fuel sample port or line is capped. If a fuel sample is required by tech, I can uncap the port and turn on the low pressure Carter fuel pump to circulate gas from the cell to the holding tank and back to the cell. The "T" fitting is located at a low point in this return line to the cell, allowing enough gas to flow out the fuel sample port to satisfy the requirement of a sample. Regards, Ryan.
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Ryan,
I agree that there's a safety issue w/ just disconnecting a fuel line, because of the residual pressure. But, I have yet to hear of an IT car getting asked to pull a fuel sample. When I build the Prod car, I'll probably do it like yours.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
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I believe the BSI setup goes on one of the fuel distributor lines. The only reason I didn't get it was because my fuel pressure gauge had a quick disconnect fitting that I could use. One car has it on the main line the other on the 5th injector connector. Plug the hose in the pressure and small amount of fuel comes out then use the fuel pump to do the rest.
I believe when they talk about a "factory" setup they are thinking more in the lines of a 240, for example, that has a quick disconnect already. Many newer cars do. Yes, VW calls it a test port, but you must first release the residual pressure then hook up your "test" equipment.
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Bill,
I put the BSI fuel port "collar" on the fuel inlet side of the fuel filter. BSI gives you a collar with a port on it and a new longer bolt to use, check their website to see a picture. The nice thing is you can hook up a pressure gauge to it to check fuel pressure very easily!!
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Along Bills lines.... Why couldn't you just disconnect the cold start injector??? then put the end into a cup. They never said how much fuel they need and this will give you a fuel sample they can test with. This is what we thought of before we realized that on CIS-E cars they have a test port built into the system for us. I guess CSI-E isn't always a bad thing http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
Stephen
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Stephen, I was told by my local tech inspector when I got my annual in Feb-Mar time frame, that the sample had to be taken "outside" of the car. In other words, the container that was to take the sample couldn't be in the engine bay.
That's what I was told. All I did was banjo bolt a 2nd cold start line on the outlet side of the fuel filter, and plugged the end with a bolt and 2 brass washers.
It's tie wrapped to the upper stress bar.
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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 ITB GTI, GP for 2002
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Tim,
That's one of the problems, you've got tech inspectors making up the rules for what you have to have for a test port. There's nothing in the GCR or FasTrack that says it has to be outside the engine bay. They say it's a good idea, but not a requirement. I was told by Basil that that's why the dry-break language is in the recent FasTrack, because some tech inspectors were requiring them.
I had a tech inspector point to the fuel distributor on my car and look right at me and ask my if that was my fuel sample port, all the while, nodding his head up and down.
What's even crazier about the language in the latest FasTrack, is that it says if you have factory fuel pressure test equipment, you don't need a factory test port, or a seperate sample port.
Denver didn't think this whole thing through very well. If people want to cheat w/ fuel, they will find a way. The only way to insure that you're getting the fuel that the engine sees, is to take it out of the cell/tank, or take it from the line that runs to the carb/fuel dist./fuel rail (or downstream of those things).
And as far as removing the line from the fuel distributor not being a nice schrader valve or some other such arrangement, it's what the factory manual says to do, so therefore, it's the factory fuel pressure test port!
And Tim, I'm sure your setup is fine, but I don't like the idea of a lose fuel line in the engine bay that can be dislodge in the event of a crash. Yeah, I know that you could rip off an injector line, but all that stuff is kind of connected to the motor, and moves w/ the motor. Yours is anchored to a fixed point (stress bar).
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
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Bill, I agree. There are always going to be "grey" areas due to interpretations.
The actual line isn't that "secure". It's only tie wrapped in 3 places over the entire length of the 24" to 36" line. When I get back home, I'll take a shot of it.
This line is attached to the front of the fuel filter, so it's mounted on the Fuel Distribution system, that does move, but not as much as the engine.
Wish me luck @ the Double Regional this weekend @ Laguna Seca.
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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 ITB GTI, GP for 2002
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I have the BSI one installed on mine, I haven't had one problem in TECH.
They actually thought it was GREAT.
Well worth the $20 bucks.
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Good luck Tim!!!
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
