Advance design shocks and struts

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11-19-2007, 11:34 AM
zracer22

The race car I just bought has Advance Design shocks. I know nothing about them, and Ground Control isn't being very helpful when it comes to information. The car has been stored for 2 years and I want to make sure the shocks are in good shape. All GC tells me is to send them to them and they will rebuild for $135 each. I don't want to spend the $$$ if they don't need rebuilt. I have them off of the car, what can I do to test them. How should they feel? Should I be able to compress them by hand?

Also, how does the adjustments work? Which way do I turn to soften? loosen? Is red adjuster for rebound or is blue?

Are there and published guides available online?

Thank you, Mark
11-19-2007, 11:58 AM
924Guy

Dying to know - what'dya get??
11-19-2007, 12:25 PM
zracer22

World Challenge Jetta. I'm dropping in a 1.8T and Bildon built tranny(Should be picking it up and Bill's shop any day now). The plan is to put 170-180 HP to the wheels and run in GTS2 at 2500-2600pounds.

http://i.pbase.com/g6/40/672940/2/69251990.dWP1QDz5.jpg
11-19-2007, 12:48 PM
almracing

Mark -

Sent you info to your signature email.
11-19-2007, 01:18 PM
zracer22

got it, thanks
11-19-2007, 04:52 PM
tbtapper

I have the Advance Design shocks on my RX7. The Red knob is for Rebound. (get it, Red = Rebound) Blue knob is for bump (compression) (Blue = Bump).

I actually think they told me that can't remember. The Red knob (I think it's Red) is numbered 1,2,3. On the collar of the shock where the adjusting shaft enters the top of the shock is a line that's painted yellow (in my case). You simple line up the numbers above the line by turning CLOCKWISE 1 = least 2 = more 3= most.

The lower collar (Blue??) simply turns in for More out for LESS. At least on my shocks the adjustments really do make a discernable difference. I have setups I like for each track I run.

The shocks are also charged (Low pressure apx. 150psi I think) with nitrogen to keep foaming of the oil down. The shocks have a schrader valve on them where you can test the pressure if you have a gauge that reads that high. You can also add Nitrogen there if you need it.

My shocks blow out seals from time to time. You can tell this by oil escaping from the around the shaft seal. If the shocks are intact and up to spec they will have a distince sesistance to compression by hand due to the nitrogen pressure.

If they don't well you may need to have them checked. Yikes, last time I had mine rebuilt it was $90/per.

The CLAIM that they are rebuildable by the owner. I've never been able to find any instructions or parts lists that would make this feasable.

Travers
ITS19
11-19-2007, 08:45 PM
lateapex911

The street talk on the ADs is that they are pretty cool features-wise, but rather undependable. many lose pressure regularly. (BTW, 150psi sounds high)

I know guys who have to recharge them every day. Thats just nuts if yours have the valve sitting in the bottom of a strut tube making the recharge a strut pull about job. Yecchh.

135, plus shipping both ways is $500, and spending that on dampers that have a less than stellar reputation would scare me. I'd call Lee at Koni, myself.

(I've went thru 2 out of 4..in about 20 races... myself before switching)
11-20-2007, 11:46 AM
924Guy

Cool toy... I kinda agree with what Jake's saying - though I'd point out that I'm pretty sure Bilstein has some nice offerings for that chassis, from what we saw at the front of the ARRC grid! ;)
11-20-2007, 05:50 PM
dj10

Quote:

World Challenge Jetta. I'm dropping in a 1.8T and Bildon built tranny(Should be picking it up and Bill's shop any day now). The plan is to put 170-180 HP to the wheels and run in GTS2 at 2500-2600pounds.
http://i.pbase.com/g6/40/672940/2/69251990.dWP1QDz5.jpg [/b]

Wow!!!! Derry, PA! Damn I'm just over the hill from you in Ligonier :D

Mark my crew chief rebuilds mine and he's pretty local.
11-20-2007, 06:19 PM
trhoppe

Also, don't hit any bumps with them. That will blow them out.

-Tom
11-21-2007, 12:27 PM
shwah

I have had great luck with mine.

The few times I have been able to do some real testing and adjusting, they have made noticeable differences in handling.

I drive over curbs, and use some unorthodox lines. I had a 2 wheel moment at the end of last season - 60deg from horizontal for about 80ft - and have not had one 'blow out'. I did send them back for rebuild after that event though, just to be safe.

I do take the time to check the nitrogen charge each season.
11-21-2007, 05:34 PM
dj10

Quote:

The street talk on the ADs is that they are pretty cool features-wise, but rather undependable. many lose pressure regularly. (BTW, 150psi sounds high)

I know guys who have to recharge them every day. Thats just nuts if yours have the valve sitting in the bottom of a strut tube making the recharge a strut pull about job. Yecchh.

135, plus shipping both ways is $500, and spending that on dampers that have a less than stellar reputation would scare me. I'd call Lee at Koni, myself.

(I've went thru 2 out of 4..in about 20 races... myself before switching)
[/b]

I was thinking about struts/ shocks and just remembered I had to carry around 2 sets of front Koni Struts when I raced my 944T Porsche Cup Car. We rebuild our own AD's.
11-25-2007, 12:16 PM
cpa7man

I found this, http://www.ground-control.com/gcshocks.htm

Does anyone have the rebuild or setup manuals referred to in the link above? I've got a set of these as well on a car I bought and I'm sure they need service.
11-25-2007, 01:56 PM
dj10

Quote:

I found this, http://www.ground-control.com/gcshocks.htm

Does anyone have the rebuild or setup manuals referred to in the link above? I've got a set of these as well on a car I bought and I'm sure they need service. [/b]

There are no manuals on rebuild or tech specs that I know of & Ground Control won't even tell you what wt. shock oil they use. GC will sell you the bebuild kits.
11-25-2007, 04:24 PM
RacerBowie

Quote:

Cool toy... I kinda agree with what Jake's saying - though I'd point out that I'm pretty sure Bilstein has some nice offerings for that chassis, from what we saw at the front of the ARRC grid! ;)
[/b]

I'm not sure what the other guys with the A3 chassis had, but the Golf I was driving was on Single adjustable Koni Sports. I *think* they were revalved, but I am not 100% sure.
11-25-2007, 08:59 PM
Greg Amy

My take on ADS stuff.

I bought their "ready to go" struts for my NX2000 3-4 years ago. At first I was suitably impressed, workmanship on the fabbed struts looked good. We bolted them on and noticed an immediate problem: not enough droop. Seems someone had spec'd to them a ride height that was WAAAY too low for a strut-equipped car. Looked "fab" but car handled like crap. Matt had to cut off the strut tabs and weld on tube extensions so we could get the car high enough to get out of the whacky side of the camber curve(s).

Ran them a couple of races then noticed significant side play and leakage. Top "gland nuts" that incorporated the side load bushings had worn, allowing play and oil leakage. "Normal" wear we were told. 2 races. Sent them back for overhaul - $50 each, I think - same thing happened 2-3 races later. Thought about sending them back again, but their rebuild guru had a fatal moto accident (RIP, he was a super guy) so we bought from them multiple copies of the internal seals, nuts, parts, the special top removal tool, and a gallon of shock oil. Rebuilt the things ourselves every 2-4 races, finding o-rings and such floating around most of the time.

Kept developing the chassis such that our springs rates were vastly over-powering the AD inserts, no matter how we changed the shim packs. Got tired of that and fabricated struts for Koni 8611 inserts instead.

My take? nice products for the street; I'll probably use their camber plates on my street NX2000 (along with my Kessler Koni 8611-equipped struts)... - GA
11-25-2007, 09:22 PM
SPiFF

I am with Greg. Great workmanship, very light, look great, decent price, but they don't hold up well under most racing applications. When my spring rates started to creep up, I never could get the shocks setup to work well. Running Koni 3011s now.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/fi...PIWOHJUUA4.JPG

** full disclosure, suspension bind was what let to these failing.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/fi...6TY0JEXU8M.JPG
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/fi...3OLIUJYDUV.JPG
11-25-2007, 09:31 PM
Greg Amy

HAH! Seeing Spiff's failure there reminded me of another ADS experience.

Showed up this year as a surprise to drive Richie Hunter's Integra...hopped in for the warm-up lap then took the green. Tagged a curb on the first lap that I *always* tag in the NX2000 and the car suddenly felt funny...pulled it in a lap later, thought I blew a tire. The front AD shock was EXPLODED and in muy pieces. Seems the travel on that car with those shocks is nowhere NEAR what the NX has, and I SERIOUSLY bottomed out that shock internally. The lower cap - the part in Spiff's pic that's separated - had driven itself up into the body such that the entire lower body of that super-lightweight aluminum tube was "tulip'd" out. It was pretty ugly (and I was pretty embarrassed...)

I've also watched some of my ITA competitors constantly re-pressurizing those, even between sessions. "Normal", they're told.

Hmmm.....
11-25-2007, 10:14 PM
zracre

Quote:

HAH! Seeing Spiff's failure there reminded me of another ADS experience.

Showed up this year as a surprise to drive Richie Hunter's Integra...hopped in for the warm-up lap then took the green. Tagged a curb on the first lap that I *always* tag in the NX2000 and the car suddenly felt funny...pulled it in a lap later, thought I blew a tire. The front AD shock was EXPLODED and in muy pieces. Seems the travel on that car with those shocks is nowhere NEAR what the NX has, and I SERIOUSLY bottomed out that shock internally. The lower cap - the part in Spiff's pic that's separated - had driven itself up into the body such that the entire lower body of that super-lightweight aluminum tube was "tulip'd" out. It was pretty ugly (and I was pretty embarrassed...)

I've also watched some of my ITA competitors constantly re-pressurizing those, even between sessions. "Normal", they're told.

Hmmm.....
[/b]

X2 same thing. They look cool and have a great feature list but seem too delicate for what we do. Road Atlanta ARRC 2006 I qualified well (test day tuned all was well), went out for the race and warming up tires and brakes the car seemed soft in the LF...I got the start and the car was bad...the shock finally let go after a few futile laps. Anyone there saw how happy I was about this. They were cool and rebuilt them and told me to get bigger bump stops...I guess this one bottomed internally as well. I am far too lazy to pull struts out every few races...so I have a brand new set for sale...still in box.

great salesman!
11-25-2007, 11:34 PM
SPiFF

Quote:

I've also watched some of my ITA competitors constantly re-pressurizing those, even between sessions. "Normal", they're told.

[/b]

I have the hose w/ gauge which "some of Greg's ITA competitors" use if any1 wants to buy it off me. :)