Piggyback ECU

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04-20-2009, 04:39 PM
wepsbee

Piggyback ECU

I would like someone else to help with the interpretation of the new ECU rule in ITA. Is it OK to add on to the stock ECU a Venom type piggyback Engine Management system? I cannot find a replacement for the stock ECU so I cannot actually change it and now alterations do not have to be all done inside the stock ECU case so.........
04-20-2009, 05:11 PM
C. Ludwig

Quote:

Originally Posted by wepsbee

I would like someone else to help with the interpretation of the new ECU rule in ITA. Is it OK to add on to the stock ECU a Venom type piggyback Engine Management system? I cannot find a replacement for the stock ECU so I cannot actually change it and now alterations do not have to be all done inside the stock ECU case so.........

I can't see why a piggy back would not be legal. I would however stay clear of the Venom products. There are MUCH better piggy back options.
04-20-2009, 05:15 PM
shwah

SDS
Megasquirt
Electromotive
Motec
and others
Are all viable replacement ecus. I would recommend Megasquirt, talk to diyautotune.com.
04-20-2009, 05:28 PM
C. Ludwig

Quote:

Originally Posted by shwah

SDS
Megasquirt
Electromotive
Motec
and others
Are all viable replacement ecus. I would recommend Megasquirt, talk to diyautotune.com.

FWIW, none of those are piggy back systems.
04-20-2009, 05:45 PM
shwah

Yes. I left words out of my post - sorry.

The point I wanted to make is that replacement ECUs are available for the original poster's car.

At least that's what I said in my head...
04-20-2009, 06:09 PM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by shwah

Yes. I left words out of my post - sorry.

The point I wanted to make is that replacement ECUs are available for the original poster's car.

At least that's what I said in my head...

Thanks for the info. Some of those vendors I have not yet heard of!!!!
04-20-2009, 07:52 PM
C. Ludwig

The SDS and Electromotive both require specific crank sensors that are not very common. The 60-2 that the Electromotive uses is used on many European cars but that's about it. That makes those two systems a tough sell for the IT rule set.

Haltech and AEM both have very nice piggback systems with full ignition and fuel control as well as datalogging and aux output functions. They're both easy to wire and program.
04-20-2009, 08:43 PM
Andy Bettencourt

Mine is now running a Haltech. 2 certified tuners on-site with our DynaPak is a handy tool too!
04-20-2009, 09:42 PM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

The SDS and Electromotive both require specific crank sensors that are not very common. The 60-2 that the Electromotive uses is used on many European cars but that's about it. That makes those two systems a tough sell for the IT rule set.

Haltech and AEM both have very nice piggback systems with full ignition and fuel control as well as datalogging and aux output functions. They're both easy to wire and program.

I sent you a PM requesting some info. Perhaps you could tell me what the main difference would be between a standalone and a piggyback. Do I really need a standalone or will a piggyback do?
04-21-2009, 05:47 PM
C. Ludwig

IMO a good piggyback with get you a big chunk of the performance a full stand alone will. It depends on the base engine though and good piggybacks like the Haltech Interceptor and AEM F/IC are not compatible with every application because of trigger input support. Any piggyback is simply modifying the input signals from the stock sensors to make the stock ECU do what you want it to. Some, like the mentioned Venom, are pretty crude and are basically like the old trick of placing resistors in the water temp sensor. The Haltech and AEM are far more advanced and offer very good tuning resolution.

The Haltech has 16x16 mapping for fuel and spark. Fuel is altered as a percentage of stock injection pulse width so, with a 0% offset on initial startup you're running a completely stock map and you simply wire it up and drive away. On the dyno you see where the car is lean or rich and alter the offset at those particular load/rpm sites to dial in the mixture that gives you best relaible power. Since your stock ECU drives the car so well off throttle and we're not concerned with making more power there you can leave all those load/rpm sites at a 0% offset for quicker tuning and stock like driveability and idle. Timing is adjusted as actual degrees BTDC. Again you can leave it stock or tweak the timing at full load to optimize power output.

There are advantages to some full standalones. Some modern ECUs are very smart and will figure out that you're trying to fool it with a piggyback and jump into a limp mode. I'm not even sure if there are any ECUs like this in IT currently. We've worked with some pretty modern stuff in the Bosch ECUs in the Mini Cooper S and the Haltech Interceptor works great. However, Mazda's turbocharged Mazdaspeed cars are notorious for figuring out and defeating piggyback systems. In cases like this a full standalone is required. Sone standalones like the new Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 alos have added features over piggyback systems in that they can control aux functions such as electric cooling fans and have very good onboard datalogging that allows you to record engine and aux input data with the ECU for later download in the paddock. Single connector CAN outputs to digital dashes are also nice. There is also the potential weight savings of using a standalone system which can eliminate a large chunk of wiring from the stock system.
04-22-2009, 09:02 AM
wepsbee

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

IMO a good piggyback with get you a big chunk of the performance a full stand alone will. It depends on the base engine though and good piggybacks like the Haltech Interceptor and AEM F/IC are not compatible with every application because of trigger input support. Any piggyback is simply modifying the input signals from the stock sensors to make the stock ECU do what you want it to. Some, like the mentioned Venom, are pretty crude and are basically like the old trick of placing resistors in the water temp sensor. The Haltech and AEM are far more advanced and offer very good tuning resolution.

The Haltech has 16x16 mapping for fuel and spark. Fuel is altered as a percentage of stock injection pulse width so, with a 0% offset on initial startup you're running a completely stock map and you simply wire it up and drive away. On the dyno you see where the car is lean or rich and alter the offset at those particular load/rpm sites to dial in the mixture that gives you best relaible power. Since your stock ECU drives the car so well off throttle and we're not concerned with making more power there you can leave all those load/rpm sites at a 0% offset for quicker tuning and stock like driveability and idle. Timing is adjusted as actual degrees BTDC. Again you can leave it stock or tweak the timing at full load to optimize power output.

There are advantages to some full standalones. Some modern ECUs are very smart and will figure out that you're trying to fool it with a piggyback and jump into a limp mode. I'm not even sure if there are any ECUs like this in IT currently. We've worked with some pretty modern stuff in the Bosch ECUs in the Mini Cooper S and the Haltech Interceptor works great. However, Mazda's turbocharged Mazdaspeed cars are notorious for figuring out and defeating piggyback systems. In cases like this a full standalone is required. Sone standalones like the new Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 alos have added features over piggyback systems in that they can control aux functions such as electric cooling fans and have very good onboard datalogging that allows you to record engine and aux input data with the ECU for later download in the paddock. Single connector CAN outputs to digital dashes are also nice. There is also the potential weight savings of using a standalone system which can eliminate a large chunk of wiring from the stock system.

Wow, great class on management controls, Thanks. I guess at this point it will require a phone call to you to firm up what I need.