Pig Roast Group 8 Summary

My Run Group 8 perspective/.02

The race started great for me. There were a couple people that came out to race on rains that lost the coin toss. For those of us that went out on dry’s that was what was needed. The track was still slick in places but by the end of the race I was running at 100% at almost all places on the track.
I like the second chicane. Since I have done/do lots of instructing for most of the car clubs which run this configuration I am very comfortable with a fast line through there. It was a little bit tricky getting through with the whole field on the start. Turn three was also a little tricky and I got a little nudge (dent) in the right rear from someone as I was going up the hill. The front wheel drive pulled well for the first couple laps while the rear wheel drive cars were still a little slower while their tires warmed up and the track dried out more. I was able to make it by Scott Carlson for the lead within the first couple laps. I was psyched! He and I have had some great racing in the past and I knew this was going to be another great one. I have lots of respect for his driving skill and car setup ability. I felt our cars were fairly evenly matched so it was ON!
Since a couple of the fast ITS guys did not get as good as a start as I did I knew I would have to let some by. I let a couple of the faster ITS cars by on laps 4 through 8 and they slowed me up a little in the corners but for the most part they were able to steadily pull a car length or two each lap to not effect me. Every time I let an ITS car by and had to lift a little Scott caught me but I was able to start slowly pulling away from him after the ITS cars pulled ahead enough. Many of the ITS guys got a point by from me and a slight lift. On lap 8 I pointed my last ITS car by. The rest of the race was a challenge to try and stay in front of Scott who was hot on my rear bumper after every corner. I'd pull away then he would catch me. The ITS car in front of me was making me work extra hard to concentrate on what was in front of me and Scott who was behind me. It was an action packed 6 or 7 laps with me in the middle.
At the very last corner of the last lap the three of us caught a lapped car and Scott made an inside dive that gave him the inside line and me not much choice. I went off track and came back on behind Scott to finish the race in second.
It was an exciting race that had it's highs and lows.
This post does not intent to blame anyone for anything. I look forward to racing in ITB with the ITS guys.

The above post was edited by me after a much needed beer :-)
No offense was meant - it was my vent.

Hey Beran,

Long time no speak, just wanted to say hi.

Bummer about a backmarker ruining a good race for the lead. It happens. I know you say you're over it, but it doesn't sound like you really are. Go have yourself some good beer tonight and put this one in the stories bucket, the kind you tell to try to top someone else's racing sob story. With all of your experience, that bucket ought to be overflowing by now!

We're just club racing, there's not THAT much on the line, even with contingencies and such. In some ways this incident probably made the whole race more exciting, even if it hurt the final finishing position.

I actually had more fun last weekend at the 24 Hours of LeMons race (we won!) than I've had in probably any other racing event I've ever done, and I had people actually TRYING to punt me out of the race. But for the couple of hours when there was a tight race for the lead, most of the passes happened because one of us got more lucky with traffic (80+ cars on a 1.1 mile track makes for a lot of traffic!) It was infuriating when I ended up on the wrong side of the equation but exhilarating when it worked in my favor. You figure over time that these things usually balance out.

Hope to race against you someday!

Josh

PS: How could a major track not have a timing loop at the S/F line??

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PS: How could a major track not have a timing loop at the S/F line??
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Having worked for NASCAR, IMS and IRL Timing and Scoring, several major tracks subsidized by NASCAR were told that the scoring building would be located in Turn Four (NHIS, Lowes, and Dover are configured this way). This was done way before electronic timing & scoring was perfected.

That being said, if one wants to spend mega bucks for a system that will detect multiple lines around the track( SCCA systems typically only read one line), then you could generate a serial list of cars passing over the S/F line (if one was installed there), independent of the scoring line which would still need to be located in a place where the scoring personnel could see the cars passing.

BTW, you should see the T&S booth at Dover. You can barely see the roof of the building from the infield. It is dug into the ground, like a bomb shelter! Of course the cars are very visible on the banking!

I gotta tell ya Beran, I'm a little disappointed in your post. Bashing someone, especially about their driving isn't really the norm here. If you have issues with someone's driving, talk to them one on one, not in an open forum.

I know Brian and raced with him when I was in ITS and he has always been a gentleman on and off the track.

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Having worked for NASCAR, IMS and IRL Timing and Scoring, several major tracks subsidized by NASCAR were told that the scoring building would be located in Turn Four (NHIS, Lowes, and Dover are configured this way). This was done way before electronic timing & scoring was perfected.

That being said, if one wants to spend mega bucks for a system that will detect multiple lines around the track( SCCA systems typically only read one line), then you could generate a serial list of cars passing over the S/F line (if one was installed there), independent of the scoring line which would still need to be located in a place where the scoring personnel could see the cars passing.
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This, of course, assumes that one is allowed to use said "NASCAR" timing loops. Many tracks prohibit any access to either the timing loops or any electronics connected to them.

And, the S/F timing loop is not at S/F! It is the distance before the line that NASCAR mandates that the Transponder is from the front of the car.

BTW: The "timing" building at NHIS is used as a meeting room by NASCAR. Timing is done from one of the rooms way up on top of the grand stands.

Can I ask a stupid question?

If the T&S loop is located at Nascar T-4, isn't the race over at the loop regardless of where the Start/finish line is? What would happen if we had a photo finish? Wouldn't we rely on the loop? Seems like the loop should be at S/F or that start finish is meaningless.

To add to your confusion Tim, at Pocono, the loop is AFTER the S/F line in the "T1 Infield"...You can win, let off the gas, have someone pass you and get recorded as second - or third - or whatever...

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To add to your confusion Tim, at Pocono, the loop is AFTER the S/F line in the "T1 Infield"...You can win, let off the gas, have someone pass you and get recorded as second - or third - or whatever...
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See pig roast thread for my answer. :)

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To add to your confusion Tim, at Pocono, the loop is AFTER the S/F line in the "T1 Infield"...You can win, let off the gas, have someone pass you and get recorded as second - or third - or whatever...
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Found that out last year. :D

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PS: How could a major track not have a timing loop at the S/F line??
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Hopefully you don't count Thunderhill as a major track :026: :026:

In answer ot other Q's, SCCA uses the loop for timing not scoring. (Think about that in Qualifying :))


Marcus

I don't get it. At Thunderhill, the S/F line is where the timing loop is. That it's just a little ways past the flagstand is a different point.

The race winner is the one that crosses the finish line first, and the timing loop is at the finish line.

That sounds altogether different from NHIS.

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I don't get it. At Thunderhill, the S/F line is where the timing loop is. That it's just a little ways past the flagstand is a different point.

The race winner is the one that crosses the finish line first, and the timing loop is at the finish line.

That sounds altogether different from NHIS.
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Josh: The point is that there may be differences between where the actual start/finish line is and the timing loop. It is up to the drivers to know where they both are located.

I have not seen supplementals from NHIS but if the painted S/F line is different than the timing loop, maybe it should be noted in the supps. (I'm still new enough to driving that I actually read them for every race I enter :blink: )

At NHIS all timing is done at the timing loop at Station 12 (Exit of NASCAR turn 4). The in race position of cars is taken from this loop as well. If the race is red and/or black flagged your position is the position you held on the last completed lap recorded at the timing loop.

As far as the race finishing order at NHIS, that is done manually by the Starter at S/F.

Regarding SCCA using the transponder system to score the finishing position this could potentially be less accurate than the current manual system used at NHIS because there is no regulated position where transponders have to be located on a racecar. Transponder signals are recorded a few car lengths before crossing the timing loop. If your signal is stronger because of battery strength or the location on the car is less shielded your signal could possibly be seen electronically before the car in front of you in a door to door crossing of the loop. Also if you locate the transponder at the rear of the car it will be sensed later than if it where on the nose.

At NHIS the use of transponders is for timing and mid race car position, race finishing position is still done the old fashion way at Start/Finish by the Starter who manually records the car numbers in the order they cross the Finish line. Dave L. please feel free to add to this.