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Please forgive my ignorance. I'm interested in prep-ing a bunny for the track and want to know what my long term options might be. I haven't purchased the car yet and am putting together a pro and con list. I know I want an A1 Rabbit. I see that the early rabbits (1.6) are in ITC and the later (1.8) are in ITB. Is it legal to put a 1.8 in an early A1 and run in ITB? Will buying an earlier or later car lock me into a particular class based on the chassis year?
Thanks,
Allen
Short answer is "no" to the engine switch and "yes" to the classing question. If you really have your heart set on running a Bunny, stick with ITC. It is competitive there. The Golf II is typically thought to be a better answer for B.
There are enough good ITC Rabbits out there that you should be able to find one already prepared, rather than building from scratch. This will typically save you thousands of $$, to get the same parts and level of preparation.
Have fun!
Kirk
[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited July 31, 2002).]
Kirk's right on point (as usual). Another problem w/ the ITB cars is that you can't take an '84 Rabbit and make it an '84 GTI. Not sure why, as the tubs are the same, but that's the way the rules are.
While there are a couple of fast guys w/ A1 cars in ITB, the better car to have is probably the A2. Note: this may not be true if the CB does anything w/ the car weights. Dropping the 100# out of the A1 GTI should make it competitive again.
The 1600 Rabbits/Sciroccos are one of the better ITC cars to have. They have no problems running w/ the 510s and the Hondas.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
Keep your eyes open for a guy named Mike Sperber. He runs an ITB GTI out of the North Carolina Region. If you get to VIR much you'll run into him. He's been at Rabbits for a couple years now, and racing for quite a few more. He's a very busy guy, but racing is racing, catch him at the track and he'll talk your ears off.
Oh yeah, he's set the track record at VIR in his car, I don't know if it stands, but that should give you an idea of how a Rabbit can run there.
But...there are lots of ITB Rabbit GTI's out there that started life as plain old Rabbits. There are more Volvo 142e's running as ITB cars than Volvo EVER EVER EVER delivered in the western hemisphere. How many 240Zs in ITS are really 260 or 280 shells. And, rulebook-thumping aside, why should anyone care ?
Suppose your race buddy has a real ITB GTI, but wads the shell up and wants to re-shell with his existing driveline stuff. Do you really think he's going to go searching for a real GTI shell, or will he just wander down to the local junque-yard and find a lonely Rabbit ? It happens a lot...and if it hasn't happended to you yet, IT WILL.
IT is supposed to be cheap racing. That what the class philosophy says, that what the competitors all say they want. Why make it more expensive than it has to be ?
When's the last time any of the rules nerds protested a car for a non-compliant shell ? When's the last time any of the rules nerds actually protested anything ?
Bla-bla-bla-quack-quack-quack, but nobody has the nutz to whip out 25 bucks, because it'll probably just complicate another racers' day and it'll just piss people off and IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY FREAKIN DIFFERENCE.
I guess my sudden leap to keyboard here is, in part, inspired by the current sillyness regarding "IT to Nat'l Class" stuff elsewhere on the board. You don't think making IT a national class would raise the costs ? Time to change the water in the bong, kids. Start thinking about now much more important compliance checking will be ('cuz it's a joke right now, and drivers don't even want to self-police it) and how many pages FastTrack would grow to every month. How much more paper would fly at Tech and Impound if IT was running Nationals ?
Back on subject: I would be embarrassed to ever protest a fellow competitor's car because it was an identical, but differently badged shell. That's how nearly everybody plays the game, and I've yet to see any of the rules nerds speak with their wallets at Impound.
Maybe we should ask the Comp Board to specifically allow transplants using identical shells.
If the 280Z shell is the same as a 240Z then why do I have to carry a couple hundred extra pounds around? How do you know that all "identically" looking cars are the same underneath? Better yet how is the C.B. supposed to know? I'd say the C.B. is playing it safe in my opinion.
It's a pretty safe bet that it has something to do with the extra holeage in the motor (2.4 vs. 2.8), don't ya think ?Quote:
Originally posted by KBARTU:
If the 280Z shell is the same as a 240Z then why do I have to carry a couple hundred extra pounds around?
Got 3 old Z cars here, they sure as hell look the same to me.
.Quote:
<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">There are more Volvo 142e's running as ITB cars than Volvo EVER EVER EVER delivered in the western hemisphere</font>
I guess I've got to get out more, or did Volvo really only ship 50 142e's to the US?? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif
John, do you realize how plentiful Rabbit GTI's are? Even though they were only made for 2 years, there are still tons of them out there (I currently have 4, and have had and sold that many more). Go to www.vwvortex.com and you'll more than likely find at least 10 for sale on any given day.
Do I think it's a silly rule? Sure I do, but it's the rule.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
If you're anywhere near the central East coast of Florida, I'll give you a GTI shell for free, complete with a 1.8 engine with a blown head gasket - minus the tranny, I'm keeping that. Also a couple of 1.6 Rabbit shells with cages in them, and a complete '82 Rabbit S for parts. Come and get 'em.
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[email protected]
Well, not quite free, but I've got one with a real pretty cage that Chris started as a GP car and that's all that got done before the GP Golf project got started. I've actually gotten to the point where the Golfs outnumber the GTIs in the driveway, but we've still got a couple.Quote:
Originally posted by hornerdon:
If you're anywhere near the central East coast of Florida, I'll give you a GTI shell for free, complete with a 1.8 engine with a blown head gasket - minus the tranny, I'm keeping that. Also a couple of 1.6 Rabbit shells with cages in them, and a complete '82 Rabbit S for parts. Come and get 'em.
The GTIs can be fast; Chris will occassionally get into a friend's car, and can make it hustle. He thinks the GTIs are easier to drive. If Bill Miller ever gets that 100# out of the Rabbit GTI, I can foresee another one in our future.
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers
Now if I could just get that Corrado out of the driveway.....
Well Lesley, I'm not giving up yet! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif But, I won't be able to do it alone. And there are lots of good folks that are helping. Hats off to Dave Zaslow, et. al. for the latest thing to the CB re: weights. To me, the fact that they have even acknowledged it is a step in the right direction.
I've talked to several people, and the general concensus is that the A1 car is easier to drive and is the better chassis. If we get the weight out of them, I think you'll see more folks running them again, over the A2 cars. Either that, or let us run the 10:1 motors! http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/biggrin.gif
I just gave a GTI shell to a fellow racer that wadded his up, and I'm selling a complete, running street GTI to another fellow racer that had similar problems w/ his car. Glad to see these cars still out there, and I want to do whatever I can to keep them out there.
Now, tell me more about this GP Rabbit GTI....
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
>>Hats off to Dave Zaslow, et. al. for the latest thing to the CB re: weights.
hmmm, you know if all the Rabbit GTI guys could drive like Zaslow, you'd be winning on a regular basis. Just drive it!
Hi Dave http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/smile.gif
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
And if we were all as handsome and charming as Mr. Suloff, along with his intellectual superiority and technical insights, not to mention his incredibly smooth driving technique; and then there's his record of bravery bravery......
Or is that Don Thompson? Gee their cars are almost the same..... Which one are you?
After you Alphonse :-)
Dave Z
Oh geez... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif
Settin us up for the "big fall" next weekend... thanks? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif
PS - I'm having nightmares about 50+ cars on a 1.5 mile track...that's like a car every 30 or 40 yards. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
Quote:
Originally posted by Bildon:
Oh geez... http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/eek.gif
Settin us up for the "big fall" next weekend... thanks? http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/frown.gif
PS - I'm having nightmares about 50+ cars on a 1.5 mile track...that's like a car every 30 or 40 yards. http://Forums.ImprovedTouring.com/it/rolleyes.gif
Bill, are they getting some sort of special dispensation to run that? What about the 25car/mile thing? That would limit the field to 37 or 38 cars, depending on how you do your rounding.
I know that the DC folks got a special dispensation for the 12 hour this year to be able to start 55 cars (Summit is 2 miles, so field limit is 50). There were probably another 10-15 cars on the 'waiting list' that didn't get to run. If you guys are getting to run 30%+ over what the field size should be, I'm curious as to what you did. That would have made for a 65 car field at Summit.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608
Bill (Miller),
I believe Bill's (Sulouff) 50 car comment is from my other post about the run group issues. LRP will not allow such a large field...I believe the largest (at least what I have seen) is 41 or so. That gets VERY crowded. They will have to make run group adjustments as always.
Bill (Sulouff),
Does this mean you all are coming up for the Aug 9-10 event, or am I reading your post completely wrong. If you are attending, please swing by.
Alan
ITB Golf #78
>>Does this mean you all are coming up for the Aug 9-10 event
Yup. We're bringing 2 ITB cars.
We are doing all teh NYSRRC stuff this year.
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
hornerdon...
Would you be willing to help out a no money, wanting to race eventaully, 84 GTI owner with one of those Rabbit cages you said you have? Could we work out a deal??? Email me at [email protected]
Thanks!
Mike, I'm answering here rather than Email so anyone else interested can see it, also. As far as a deal is concerned, if you are talking about financially, the only way I could give you a better deal would be to pay you to take them - and I may be getting close to that (tongue in cheek).
The rest of the deal depends on where you are and how much work you want to do. Both of the cages are still attached to the cars. The better cage is attached to an absolutely empty '80 tub - no drive train, suspension, nothing. The tub is pretty straight. It can be put on a trailer with furniture dollies - that's how I got it here. I need to be rid of the tub, also, so the "deal" is that you have to take the whole thing, or, come here and do the work yourself to get the cage out, and help me load the tub to take to the crusher.
The other one is still mounted in what is "supposed" to be an ITC tub. I have not yet completed stripping that car for its parts, but when I do, it will also be mostly and empty tub - I may even cut the roof off it, because it is a non-sunroof car, and someone may want to swap out roofs to get rid of their sunroof (the other empty tub with cage DOES have a closed-up sunroof). Same deal applies - with a minor difference - since this car is rusty and the roof will likely be gone, I will cut the cage out of it, then the scraps will go to the crusher.
The other part of the deal is, where are you? If it's out of the car, the cagewould have to be shipped motor freight, and it wouldn't be cheap - probably not worth it. I'm in Port St. Lucie, Florida, on the East Coast about halfway between Daytona and Miami. If you're somewhere within a couple of hours of here, I can work out a deal to get soemthing to you on one of my trailers (I have two, plus can probably get another, if you can round up enough tow vehicles) for the price of the gas, or loan you the trailer if you want to make an extra trip to get the trailer back to me.
I had to herd them all (5 Rabbit, 2 Sciroccos, 2 Fiats, 2 Starlets and a '66 Econoline van) behind a fence to avoid code enforcement and they're prety crammed in right now, but I can probably get some pix if you are serious enough.
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[email protected]
Im in Bowling Green, KY. So I guess if you could ship me a cage, it wouldnt be worth the trouble. How much do you think the shipping would be?
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Mike Breen
84 VW Rabbit GTI